117 réponses à ce sujet

[MonkeyChief117]

Well i am a real technophobe and i've already admitted i can't ride a bike - thinking about it, i'm a bit rubbish! And i think the haterz have gone to bed whcih is nice

[MonkeyChief117]

7th_Phoenix wrote...

 You want PC content for consoles, here's your explanation why you can't:

http://social.biowar...x/318985#320479

It's perfectly reasonable. Just get a PC like others have suggested. :|

Hmm that is interesting (although completely over my head lol). But i'm talking about the future, not the current DA game. A 'best of the mods' pack for consoles would be nice wouldn't it?

[Gill Kaiser]

Sure it would be nice, but even if it were possible to convert the content for use on the console platforms, Sony and Microsoft would never allow it, because they dislike giving stuff to consumers for free when they could be charging them for something else to fill their time with. Also, when you're providing content made for free by various different fans, there are legal concerns if you attempt to charge people for said content.

[Shayaryn]

I love threads like this. They never cease to be entertaining.

I'm a modder. I mostly work with meshes and textures. I'm not the best, not by far, but I understand how modded content works.

It would be a really, really bad idea to put user-made content on consoles. Aside from legal issues, do you have any idea how easy it is to break a game? On a console, you cannot dig through system files to find out why your game crashes every five seconds, and why you get 5 FPS. With official DLC, all of it is made by Bioware, and you don't have to worry about mod conflicts. There's also user-made software needed to make mods run without killing the game. In Oblivion, I use at least 100 mods, and I have to use Oblivion Mod Manager, Oblivion Script Extender, WryeBash, and several other programs every time I install a new mod. I don't use many Dragon Age mods, but some do require utilities to use.

I run Dragon Age just fine on an e-machine from 2005. I replaced the graphics card with a Nvidia Geforce 7900GS back in '07, and though the card is dying slowly and painfully, Dragon Age still runs just fine on this thing. PC gaming isn't that expensive. Not to mention, I can use the same machine I use to play games to type up essays for class, edit meshes and textures, and doodle. I don't have any consoles, other than handhelds, because I can't afford it. I need my PC for school, and it does plenty of other things, as well. A gaming machine may be more expensive than a console, but I've never heard of anyone using Photoshop and a Wacom tablet on a console.

Even if it was possible to use the toolset on a console, that wouldn't allow for the creation of new meshes and textures. That requires software like 3DStudioMAX, Blender, Photoshop, GIMP, or any other similar program.

And then there's the hardware. Consoles cannot handle the textures and meshes many mods use. Don't the console versions of DA have stuttering issues, anyway?

There's also tons of legal issues. Consoles simply don't allow user-made mods, partially for the reasons I listed.

It's been said before, but if you want mods, just get a PC, or upgrade your current machine.

[MonkeyChief117]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Sure it would be nice, but even if it were possible to convert the content for use on the console platforms, Sony and Microsoft would never allow it, because they dislike giving stuff to consumers for free when they could be charging them for something else to fill their time with. Also, when you're providing content made for free by various different fans, there are legal concerns if you attempt to charge people for said content.

Your first point: see I WILL PAY lol

Second point: That would be tricky...catch 22 it seems. Ah well, i can dream.

[MonkeyChief117]

Shayaryn wrote...

I love threads like this. They never cease to be entertaining.

I'm a modder. I mostly work with meshes and textures. I'm not the best, not by far, but I understand how modded content works.

It would be a really, really bad idea to put user-made content on consoles. Aside from legal issues, do you have any idea how easy it is to break a game? On a console, you cannot dig through system files to find out why your game crashes every five seconds, and why you get 5 FPS. With official DLC, all of it is made by Bioware, and you don't have to worry about mod conflicts. There's also user-made software needed to make mods run without killing the game. In Oblivion, I use at least 100 mods, and I have to use Oblivion Mod Manager, Oblivion Script Extender, WryeBash, and several other programs every time I install a new mod. I don't use many Dragon Age mods, but some do require utilities to use.

I run Dragon Age just fine on an e-machine from 2005. I replaced the graphics card with a Nvidia Geforce 7900GS back in '07, and though the card is dying slowly and painfully, Dragon Age still runs just fine on this thing. PC gaming isn't that expensive. Not to mention, I can use the same machine I use to play games to type up essays for class, edit meshes and textures, and doodle. I don't have any consoles, other than handhelds, because I can't afford it. I need my PC for school, and it does plenty of other things, as well. A gaming machine may be more expensive than a console, but I've never heard of anyone using Photoshop and a Wacom tablet on a console.

Even if it was possible to use the toolset on a console, that wouldn't allow for the creation of new meshes and textures. That requires software like 3DStudioMAX, Blender, Photoshop, GIMP, or any other similar program.

And then there's the hardware. Consoles cannot handle the textures and meshes many mods use. Don't the console versions of DA have stuttering issues, anyway?

There's also tons of legal issues. Consoles simply don't allow user-made mods, partially for the reasons I listed.

It's been said before, but if you want mods, just get a PC, or upgrade your current machine.

Please note - I DONT want unrestricted modding for consoles, but rather BW approved pack of the best user created content. Share the love you know? Legal issues would be the biggest challenge IMO

[Bullets McDeath]

Another problem is, via the EULA, anything you make with the Toolset belongs to Bioware and/or EA. If I bled and sweat over a mod to make it as kickass as I possibly could and then EA turned around and bundled it up with a bunch of other crap I had nothing to do with and then made a profit from it... well, I doubt I'd be the only one who probably wouldn't be so enthusiastic about designing kickass mods.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 23 mars 2010 - 01:57 .

[MonkeyChief117]

outlaworacle wrote...

Another problem is, via the EULA, anything you make with the Toolset belongs to Bioware and/or EA. If I bled and sweat over a mod to make it as kickass as I possibly could and then EA turned around and bundled it up with a bunch of other crap I had nothing to do with and then made a profit from it... well, I doubt I'd be the only one who probably wouldn't be so enthusiastic about designing kickass mods.

Very good point...oh i feel sad now.

[Shayaryn]

MonkeyChief117 wrote...
Please note - I DONT want unrestricted modding for consoles, but rather BW approved pack of the best user created content. Share the love you know? Legal issues would be the biggest challenge IMO

A lot of modders hate when their mods get stuck together in mod packs. They lose control of their content and are unable to make updates to their own work. Then there's compatibility. Mods can conflict with each other. There's a popular mod that replaces the weapon meshes, and another popular mod that adds new weapon textures. They cannot be used together. The weapons just show up invisible.

I haven't released any of my DA mods yet; I've just been playing around with personal projects at this point. I have released some Oblivion mods, though, and I do not like it when people re-upload them, or repackage them with other mods. If Bioware were to do such a thing, they'd have to contact every modder whose content they want to include, and keep in touch with them for updates. It would be a lot of work and many modders would outright refuse to lose control of their work. "Best" is subjective, as well.

[Gill Kaiser]

This is somewhat off-topic, but I'm wondering why we haven't really seen any new meshes being introduced into DA yet Shayaryn, do you know? Is the toolset not playing well with modelling software, or has nobody had the time to make new meshes yet? I've only seen reskins so far.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 23 mars 2010 - 02:12 .

[MonkeyChief117]

Shayaryn wrote...

MonkeyChief117 wrote...
Please note - I DONT want unrestricted modding for consoles, but rather BW approved pack of the best user created content. Share the love you know? Legal issues would be the biggest challenge IMO

A lot of modders hate when their mods get stuck together in mod packs. They lose control of their content and are unable to make updates to their own work. Then there's compatibility. Mods can conflict with each other. There's a popular mod that replaces the weapon meshes, and another popular mod that adds new weapon textures. They cannot be used together. The weapons just show up invisible.

I haven't released any of my DA mods yet; I've just been playing around with personal projects at this point. I have released some Oblivion mods, though, and I do not like it when people re-upload them, or repackage them with other mods. If Bioware were to do such a thing, they'd have to contact every modder whose content they want to include, and keep in touch with them for updates. It would be a lot of work and many modders would outright refuse to lose control of their work. "Best" is subjective, as well.

All good points - it looks like my 'dream' would be a real nightmare to try and do.

[Gill Kaiser]

No no, I mean custom meshes. New armour and weaponry instead of just reskins.

[Shayaryn]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

This is somewhat off-topic, but I'm wondering why we haven't really seen any new meshes being introduced into DA yet Shayaryn, do you know? Is the toolset not playing well with modelling software, or has nobody had the time to make new meshes yet? I've only seen reskins so far.

With Blender, at least, it's not possible to export meshes. You can only replace existing meshes. I've seen weapon mrshes, but no armor. The mesh format that DA uses is incredibly hard to manipulate in Blender, and the only way to even import the meshes is through NewByPower's script. At some point, there may be new armor meshes, but it's not possible for now. It's possible to add retextured meshes to the game without replacing existing ones, but it's at least extremely difficult to get new armor meshes into the game. That's why there are new weapon meshes, but no new armor meshes. I have no idea why BioWare made modding so difficult.

[AlanC9]

That's only one particular kind of modding that they made difficult, of course

[Shayaryn]

AlanC9 wrote...

That's only one particular kind of modding that they made difficult, of course

The Toolset is very hard to use. I do meshes and textures, though I've heard that the Toolset is not very user-friendly even for those who are skilled in that area. All I've done with the Toolset is make face morphs, but I'm kind of scared to try anything else. I'd rather not break anything.

[Sylixe]

For the amount of money you would shell out to get a version of the game close to the PC you could just go buy a PC instead.  There are of course some technological limitations that just cannot be ported over to a console though.

[ModerateOsprey]

I think user created mods/content becoming available for the console is a distinct possibility in the future. Games of this nature are in their early stages comparatively. It does not seem beyond the realms of possibility to me that some of the top modders could look to make living developing content for large worlds like that offered by DAO. At the moment, there are technical and licensing issues to be worked out, but there could be very good benefits all round. There is a very very large non-game software market out there with a myriad of different licence types and, indeed, many of the largest software companies currently rely on attracting external developers for their survival.

[bluecuban]

OP's Question:

I'm going to try and answer the OP's actually question. I would certainly pay for some of the additional user-made content. You mentioned wanting content-approved packs which would be nice to have since there is a lot of good content made by the community. Especially some of the mods that allow additional abilities, or even new places to go. Heck, the new origins in some mods would be cool to experience.



About modding on consoles:

Before DA was released, the developers expressed interest in modding for consoles. Obviously, as someone previously posted from a link to a separate thread, there's a lot of problems with it, but it's still possible. Valve made it possible to put some approved user-made mods for Left 4 Dead onto the consoles. Yes, I know DA is not L4D, but the potential is still there. Also, despite the Sony/Microsoft certification, what about the Indie Games Channel on Xbox? All of that is community approved, so it's doable to have user-made mods in a similar certification pass, just a couple more hurdles required.



Exclusivity:

Come on, do we really need to have this argument? Let's be honest, there use to be a lot of things that were exclusive to PC and have now made their way to consoles. MMO's for instance are now finding good homes on consoles, so claiming that user-made content is and will always be exclusive to PC is just silly. That's like someone saying a couple years ago that motion control will always be Nintendo and specifically Wii, but we all know that's no longer the case.



Anyway, OP, any particular mods you liked and would want on Xbox?

[JustAnotherZero]

Ill be more than happy to see console gamers play my future module for free. I cant speak for the rest of modding community... But heres the deal...

You wont get any support from me. I will not waste time debugging my module just for you console gamers. And its up to EA wether they want to convert and upload any future patches and updates to my modules.

The chances of you getting stuck with a very buggy 1.0 version are very high. We, modders arent perfect... Not even the best of us. Our modules will have severe bugs upon release. This is something all module builders cant escape despite being careful with our coding. A missing line of code or a haphazard oversight could trash the entire module becuase it wont activate an essential scene in the module that moves the story along... And this kind of problem happens alot... Even worst for new module makers.

Becuase of coding mistakes and oversight and design flaws... We are always updating and changing our modules to the point that version 3.0 is an entirely different game from 1.0. Now I ask you... Will EA put effort into bringing console gamers the modding community's latest and greatest? Highly unlikely. Again... You'll be stuck with a flawed module. And again... You will receive no support from the modding community, which is essentially built around the pc.

Its unfortunate but consoles are not built to handle the advanced modding you'll find on the pc. Consoles can only handle simple level editors which cannot create a full 30 hour long RPG, something that the DA Toolset can do. Consoles do not have the capability to handle a full blown bioware toolset. A full bioware toolset is technically a poor man's video game developement package.

People here have already said it. If you want to be a part of a stong modding community... Buy a pc. You're screwed otherwise.

[AlexTheRogue_]

Ive got a pc with a good graphics card gonna ggo out and buy on pc today thanks Kinthalis

[AlexTheRogue_]

gonna get dragon age origins for pc today cant be asked to play it on the xbox any more after 4-5 playthroughs

[Soilborn88]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Many PC users are elitists, and feel that if you were a "real" gamer you would spend the hundreds of dollars needed to upgrade your pc to play the latest games, despite the fact that your 360, bought at the same time as your pc 5 years ago is still able to play everything while now your pc is a POS that cannot even run the character creator.

Clearly, if you were a real gamer, you would not pay your mortgage, your car payments, tuition for your children, your gas and electric bills, buy food for your family and pay for life and car and health insurance.... Either that or you wouldn't buy any new games to entertain yourself and family for a period of a year or so to save up for that new PC.... or you should forget the fact that you know nothing about computers and how to build them and buy parts that may or may not be compatible with your motherboard and upgrade it yourself... or that you should put an ad up on Craiglist and ask some random internet stranger to come to your home and do it for you.....

Because all of that would be much better than ever *gasp* deigning to play a game on a perfectly usable console you already own.....

These threads always devolve into PCs vs Consoles, and people end up being really rude to everyone else, calling them all sorts of names, questioning their mental capabilities, and no one ever changes any one's mind.

It is quite sad that Tali and Garrus end up being romanceable despite their DNA being toxic, yet pc and console users still can't get along.

You could try and get a job like everyone else? You generalize way too much. After all the money people spend on owning consoles it's just as expensive as buying/building computers. Most people I know have all 3 consoles with mutliple controllers and several games for each, well over 1000+ dollars in stuff. Not to mention the 360s hardware failure has happened to EVERYONE of my friends.

I built this computer a little over a year ago for like 1000USD and it's powerful enough to last for a good while. And if it starts to bog down I'll just buy two Radieon 5980s and that will be enough for the next generation.


Console gamers are eltiist too. Especially the 360 fans they are just as bad as the hardcore Japanese PS3 fans.

[Gill Kaiser]

Don't forget PC games are cheaper than console games. I mean, at least 25% cheaper.

[Challseus]

I remember Fernando Melo saying something along the lines of it being a possibility of Bioware packaging up the best mods (by mods, I mean single player campaigns/add ons), and selling them to the console people. A few things:

- No way they're just going to just allow any old mod to be released on consoles, because of all the reasons explained in this thread already (compatibility, sensors, etc.)

- The only way I see console users getting mods (again, standalone/add on adventures) is if Bioware contracts out the modder or modder group. In this way, the mod will adhere to whatever policy Sony/Microsoft has. Furthermore, the mod will most likely go through Bioware's QA as well. No way Bioware will release something with it's name on it, without ironing out all the kinks (please people, keep the irony jokes to your self ).

In essence, it will be something like Bioware's Premium Modules (i.e. Wyvern Crown of Cormyr), or Atari's Adventure Pack System (i.e. Mysteries of Westgate).

I just don't see it happening any other way. At the risk of beating a dead horse, if you want all those other small modifications, you're gonna have to get it on PC. Sucks, I know, but you can't have everything. Hell, I would rather be writing this post from home, and not at work