217 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

I've heard several people say that the ME squad was deeper than their ME2 counterparts. Could someone explain this to me? My Xbox went RROD, so I've been replaying ME. You get 4-5 conversations per squadmate, about the same numbers as ME2 (I think the ME2 number may be higher, but I haven't counted). The ME LIs actually seem less developed because they don't have a personal quest. What am I missing. I can understand finding certain characters more likable, but they seem equally fleshed out.

[DarthCaine]

ME1's squad mates were the most boring characters BioWare has ever made IMO

Modifié par DarthCaine, 22 mars 2010 - 10:41 .

[Badpie]

To me it's all the things they didn't have to say that made the characters great. The writing was so nuanced in the first game with regards to the characters that even with the limited interactions it made them feel like real people with history, with flaws, etc.



I did enjoy a lot of the character development in ME2, but I think it definitely topped out at a place where I wanted it to go further. I blame the inclusion of too many squad mates for this mostly. The characters were well written yes. And while I loved the loyalty missions as a way to get to know the characters, I feel like you got the same amount of depth from the ME1 characters without even having to do a loyalty mission. It's all the writing.

[Tyreal42a]

The party banter on the elevators and being able to talk to them for 2-3 comments in most major areas really helped.



The meetings after major missions with everyone involved rather than just Jacob and Miranda also helped. I thought they chimed in during conversations more often as well.

[Sesshomaru47]

I don't think there is much difference. You already knew about Tali and Garrus's backgrounds from the previous game if you bothered to talk to them, so there is nothing left to say. Miranda goes on about how hard done by she is, Thane talks...a lot about his life etc. I think it's just we miss them. Awwwwwww

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

In ME1 there was more dialogue to them, and they didnt snub you if you chose not to romance them. Half of the ME2 squad has next to no content because you cant/wont romance them.

Add to that that the dialogues themselves were crap, and the romanes ridiculously brief, Id say on the whole you go to ME1 for quality, and ME2 for quantity, and crappy combat oriented loyalty missions people try and pass off as "character driven". Yup, thats right, I was really getting to grips with a character popping out of cover shooting enemies.

The squad in ME2 sucked IMO, and most are the worst characters Bioware has ever done. Hope to see a much better showing in ME3, particularly with returning ME1 crew. Its pretty much the dealbreaker for me, after a maximum of 2 squadmates out of 11 so far only impressed me in ME2. The rest sucked.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 22 mars 2010 - 10:48 .

[Druss99]

They werent really anymore fleshed out. Its a combination of nostalgia and people simply just prefering them as characters so give the reasoning that they were more fleshed out.

[Badpie]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I don't think there is much difference. You already knew about Tali and Garrus's backgrounds from the previous game if you bothered to talk to them, so there is nothing left to say. Miranda goes on about how hard done by she is, Thane talks...a lot about his life etc. I think it's just we miss them. Awwwwwww

I was actually really disappointed with Tali and Garrus in ME2.  Since they were my buds I expected more in depth dialogue, but again.  It all tapped out way too soon.

Part of the problem for me, with the female characters is that I played a male shep who wasn't interested in any of them romantically.  That puts the brakes on all of the really cool character development that you would get if you were romancing them.  Especially with Tali.  She flirted with my shep, he let her down easy and then she NEVER SPOKE TO HIM AGAIN.  It made me sad.

[Qwepir]

I think the whole "Do you have time to talk" thing was the problem. ME2 characters have plenty to say, but you can't hear them re-say it later.
Although I have to admit, Garrus and Tali were about as deep as a pothole in Mass 2.

[Barquiel]

jtav wrote...
 I can understand finding certain characters more likable, but they seem equally fleshed out.

I partially agree, but some ME2 squadmates have very little dialogue if you don't romance them (Garrus!).

I miss the elevator banters as well.

[Mondo_]

Dragon Age Awakenings has more conversation and Banter then entire ME2.

[MassAffected]

jtav wrote...

I've heard several people say that the ME squad was deeper than their ME2 counterparts. Could someone explain this to me? My Xbox went RROD, so I've been replaying ME. You get 4-5 conversations per squadmate, about the same numbers as ME2 (I think the ME2 number may be higher, but I haven't counted). The ME LIs actually seem less developed because they don't have a personal quest. What am I missing. I can understand finding certain characters more likable, but they seem equally fleshed out.

Just another mystery that will never be solved. Some folks just want to look for any excuse to make ME2 seem like a failure.

[Sesshomaru47]

Badpie wrote...

I was actually really disappointed with Tali and Garrus in ME2.  Since they were my buds I expected more in depth dialogue, but again.  It all tapped out way too soon.

Part of the problem for me, with the female characters is that I played a male shep who wasn't interested in any of them romantically.  That puts the brakes on all of the really cool character development that you would get if you were romancing them.  Especially with Tali.  She flirted with my shep, he let her down easy and then she NEVER SPOKE TO HIM AGAIN.  It made me sad.

I played as a female Shepard and after Garrus loyalty quest it was either woohoo or never speak again. We don't speak now. I really thought they would have had some "remember them old times" conversations, but alas no.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I played as a female Shepard and after Garrus loyalty quest it was either woohoo or never speak again. We don't speak now. I really thought they would have had some "remember them old times" conversations, but alas no.

Thats pretty much the template for every romance. If you choose woohoo, its probably 1 or 2 dialogues of "are you sure about this?" and then one final "great, lets get it on when we have a quiet moment!"

I really did think they sucked in ME2. I havent even gotten to the point where, unlike ME1, they didnt have a "moment" in the plot.

Nothing like when the ME1 LI appears after Shepard gets grounded. People said the ME1 LIs were "flings", and I sure hope they dont consider the ME2 LI "serious". 

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 22 mars 2010 - 10:57 .

[IccaRa]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

In ME1 there was more dialogue to them, and they didnt snub you if you chose not to romance them. Half of the ME2 squad has next to no content because you cant/wont romance them.

Add to that that the dialogues themselves were crap, and the romanes ridiculously brief

Eeeh, I don't know about this. I know that Liara (just mentioning her since she was the last ME1 LI I romanced and thus the freshest in my memory) will stop talking to you if you turn her down. The only other convo she has is the short post-Virmire one. Otherwise you're stuck on "asari mating habits" and "Benezia" forever.

And the ME1 romance triggers are far more sensitive than the ME2 ones. You can speak to Liara or Ashley once and get locked into a relationship with them without even realizing it.

That's one thing that ME2 gets major improvement props on, IMO.

And really. "JOKER IS WAITING FOR YOU ON THE BRIDGE", "By the Goddess, Shepard, that was incredible!" = "Eeeeeh."

[Daralii]

IccaRa wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

In ME1 there was more dialogue to them, and they didnt snub you if you chose not to romance them. Half of the ME2 squad has next to no content because you cant/wont romance them.

Add to that that the dialogues themselves were crap, and the romanes ridiculously brief

Eeeh, I don't know about this. I know that Liara (just mentioning her since she was the last ME1 LI I romanced and thus the freshest in my memory) will stop talking to you if you turn her down. The only other convo she has is the short post-Virmire one. Otherwise you're stuck on "asari mating habits" and "Benezia" forever.

And the ME1 romance triggers are far more sensitive than the ME2 ones. You can speak to Liara or Ashley once and get locked into a relationship with them without even realizing it.

That's one thing that ME2 gets major improvement props on, IMO.

And really. "JOKER IS WAITING FOR YOU ON THE BRIDGE", "By the Goddess, Shepard, that was incredible!" = "Eeeeeh."

"You were incredible"

/cringe

[Badpie]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I was actually really disappointed with Tali and Garrus in ME2.  Since they were my buds I expected more in depth dialogue, but again.  It all tapped out way too soon.

Part of the problem for me, with the female characters is that I played a male shep who wasn't interested in any of them romantically.  That puts the brakes on all of the really cool character development that you would get if you were romancing them.  Especially with Tali.  She flirted with my shep, he let her down easy and then she NEVER SPOKE TO HIM AGAIN.  It made me sad.

I played as a female Shepard and after Garrus loyalty quest it was either woohoo or never speak again. We don't speak now. I really thought they would have had some "remember them old times" conversations, but alas no.

I know.  And I wanted this with Joker too.  I know you can ask generally about folks, but I was hoping for a couple more of those.

As far ast he party banter goes.  I recognize that ME2 and DA are completely different games, so I'm not disappointed say, that they didn't talk on a mission as much.  EXCEPT the little things.  I took Tali and Garrus with me to see Liara and none of them even acknowledged each other!  I thought that was weird.

And then the handling of the ME1 characters like Ashley, Kaidan, Liara and Wrex I go back and forth on.  Part of me loves it because I feel like it works for the story.  And another part of me feels like there was still much more that could have been done with all of them even in their limited roles.

I love Mass Effect 2.  I really do.  But I always look at sequels as some sort of weird slight deviation from what something actually is.

I just hope in any possible further expansions and ME3 Bioware does what they've done best for years:  Really in depth characters and interpersonal relationships and great story.

[Qwepir]

justinnstuff wrote...
The squadmates don't even talk to each other (besides garrus/tali in citadel), and that's not cool.

This pissed me off. When Garrus and Tali started talking on the citadel, I thought it was hilarious. And then nobody ever did it again.
Although on Tuchanka, when I picked a "Talk to Tali" option up near the shaman and she commented on how the krogan are destroying their world, I also thought it was neat when Grunt butted in.
"You quarians should know about that. How's that whole slave machine race going for you?"

I guess I miss the ability to talk to your squadmates in the field, like you could in ME1.

Modifié par Qwepir, 22 mars 2010 - 11:07 .

[JeanLuc761]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

In ME1 there was more dialogue to them, and they didnt snub you if you chose not to romance them. Half of the ME2 squad has next to no content because you cant/wont romance them.

Add to that that the dialogues themselves were crap, and the romanes ridiculously brief, Id say on the whole you go to ME1 for quality, and ME2 for quantity, and crappy combat oriented loyalty missions people try and pass off as "character driven". Yup, thats right, I was really getting to grips with a character popping out of cover shooting enemies.

The squad in ME2 sucked IMO, and most are the worst characters Bioware has ever done. Hope to see a much better showing in ME3, particularly with returning ME1 crew. Its pretty much the dealbreaker for me, after a maximum of 2 squadmates out of 11 so far only impressed me in ME2. The rest sucked.

Sounds like you and I played entirely different games

I won't begrudge you for your opinion (as much as I disagree) but I would like to remark on one point.  Anyone who thinks there was more dialogue per character in ME1 is looking through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.  Period.  Ashley and Liara had maybe...four conversations with you on the ship for the entire game.  Mass Effect 2 runs from anywhere between 4 (Garrus and Tali...**** your calibrations Garrus) to 8+ (Love you too Mordin).  That's not even including the loyalty mission which...really if you didn't think those where character driven then I honestly have no idea what to say.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

IccaRa wrote...

Eeeh, I don't know about this. I know that Liara (just mentioning her since she was the last ME1 LI I romanced and thus the freshest in my memory) will stop talking to you if you turn her down. The only other convo she has is the short post-Virmire one. Otherwise you're stuck on "asari mating habits" and "Benezia" forever.

Sorry, there is dialogue with Laira Ive never actually experienced since I chose her as a romance option for Shepard, Ive only heard about it. Something about nightmares.

IccaRa wrote...
And the ME1 romance triggers are far more sensitive than the ME2 ones. You can speak to Liara or Ashley once and get locked into a relationship with them without even realizing it.

That's one thing that ME2 gets major improvement props on, IMO.

And really. "JOKER IS WAITING FOR YOU ON THE BRIDGE", "By the Goddess, Shepard, that was incredible!" = "Eeeeeh."

Wrong on both accounts.

There are no romance triggers in ME2, the romance is completley unavoidable. Its romance or nothing. Jack, Miranda and Tali. All of them confronted me with a romance, and once I shot them down, gave me nothing. Other than their combat (loyalty) missions they gave me nothing.

Besides, I think that "by the goddess" comment is no worse than the Siha garbage frog boy fangirls spout.

[Barquiel]

I think there are too many squadmates in ME2.



I would always prefer: less characters in ME3, but

- more (friendship!) dialogue...(female warden/Morrigan was well done)

- more party banters

[Badpie]

Barquiel wrote...

I think there are too many squadmates in ME2.

I would always prefer: less characters in ME3, but
- more (friendship!) dialogue...(female warden/Morrigan was well done)
- more party banters

This.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Sounds like you and I played entirely different games

I won't begrudge you for your opinion (as much as I disagree) but I would like to remark on one point.  Anyone who thinks there was more dialogue per character in ME1 is looking through rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.  Period. Ashley and Liara had maybe...four conversations with you on the ship for the entire game.  Mass Effect 2 runs from anywhere between 4 (Garrus and Tali...**** your calibrations Garrus) to 8+ (Love you too Mordin).  That's not even including the loyalty mission which...really if you didn't think those where character driven then I honestly have no idea what to say.

Anyone who thinks the bold comment is true is flat out incorrect. Period.

Mordin only ever gave me 4-5 conversations, and he isnt a romance, so he relies on that content.

Ive seen the romances for Tali and Miranda, and it consists of two dialogues of "are you sure" (ME1 was guilty of this too) and then one more. Theres a pre-loyalty mission dialogue, but besides that, the ME2 dialogue all felt incredibly weak and artificial. I dont think Bioware could cope with that many squadmates.

[Qwepir]

Mordin doesn't really have more dialogue, he just has different excuses for not wanting to talk.