TyDurden13 wrote...
Not true. Every character has a few dialogue trees after you complete their loyalty mission - I counted: Jacob has 2, Miranda has 2, Mordin has 4, Jack has 2, etc, etc.) .
ratzerman wrote...
In ME2, the damn loyalty missions were like a giant neon sign, flashing CARE ABOUT GRUNT NAO! CARE ABOUT MIRANDA NAO!
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
2. Hmm, could you refresh my memory? I was under the impression that they'd served together along with Joker and Jenkins for quite some time? I thought that was why everyone seemed so affected when Jenkins died and why Kaidan/Joker are so familiar with each other and Anderson. Talking with Chakwas in ME2 also showed that everyone had been together quite a while.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
jlb524 wrote...
TyDurden13 wrote...
Not true. Every character has a few dialogue trees after you complete their loyalty mission - I counted: Jacob has 2, Miranda has 2, Mordin has 4, Jack has 2, etc, etc.) .
It seems the romanceable characters only just thank me after their loyalty missions. Mordin does speak more b/c he's unreliant on romance (same with Samara). Maybe I talk to them too much before the loyalty mission and burn through their entire dialog trees...
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
2. Hmm, could you refresh my memory? I was under the impression that they'd served together along with Joker and Jenkins for quite some time? I thought that was why everyone seemed so affected when Jenkins died and why Kaidan/Joker are so familiar with each other and Anderson. Talking with Chakwas in ME2 also showed that everyone had been together quite a while.
Knoll Argonar wrote...
jlb524 wrote...
TyDurden13 wrote...
Not true. Every character has a few dialogue trees after you complete their loyalty mission - I counted: Jacob has 2, Miranda has 2, Mordin has 4, Jack has 2, etc, etc.) .
It seems the romanceable characters only just thank me after their loyalty missions. Mordin does speak more b/c he's unreliant on romance (same with Samara). Maybe I talk to them too much before the loyalty mission and burn through their entire dialog trees...
That happened to me with garrus and Grunt. Once I got them I went to speak to them EVERYTIME I went back to the Normandy. Once I realized the amount of dialog was almost the same as in ME1 for those characters, I only speak to some of them (3 or so) after every major mission.
Problem (or advantage) in ME2 is that the pacing doesn't depend on you, but TIM, so you have to be careful about it.
Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 23 mars 2010 - 02:04 .
fortunesque wrote...
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
2. Hmm, could you refresh my memory? I was under the impression that they'd served together along with Joker and Jenkins for quite some time? I thought that was why everyone seemed so affected when Jenkins died and why Kaidan/Joker are so familiar with each other and Anderson. Talking with Chakwas in ME2 also showed that everyone had been together quite a while.
The Normandy SR1 had been just made. That crew was hand-picked by Anderson to do the shakedown run. Like Badpie said, the death of a fellow marine affected the crew.
As far as Chakwas, I believe that 'Kaidan uses biotics on Jenkins' thing could have easily happened when they first met . Like this:
Kaidan: Hey doc. Just saying hello. I'm looking forward to working with you and....? *looks at Jenkins*
Jenkins: Corporal Richard Leeeroy Jenkins, sir! *excited salute*
Kaidan: Staff Lieutenant Kaidan Alenko. Good to meed you, Jenk.
Chak: So, you're the L2 that I see in my files...
Jenk: An L2???!!!!! OMGEE SHOW ME SOMETHIGN!11111!!!!
Kaidan: Uh...
Jenk: Pleeeease????
Kaidan: Biotics aren't a toy, Corporal. You could get hurt.
Jenk: Come onnnnnnnnnnn *puppy eyes*
Kaidan: *sigh*..... *throws Jenkins*
At least that's how I picture it happening. Shepard may or may not have even reported in yet.
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
Haha, alright. Wow, this actually changes my perspective on...quite a few things. Gonna have to go replay the intro at some point soon, damn it.
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
Funny part is I actually can imagine the Alenko-Jenkins incident occurring the way you described it. Jenkins definitely had the hyper active personality for it. =p
:crying:
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
Funny part is I actually can imagine the Alenko-Jenkins incident occurring the way you described it. Jenkins definitely has the hyper active personality for it. =p
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
Funny part is I actually can imagine the Alenko-Jenkins incident occurring the way you described it. Jenkins definitely has the hyper active personality for it. =p
Modifié par Badpie, 23 mars 2010 - 02:11 .
Guest_Umanix_*
You're going to have to go easy on me if the next few sentences sound inane (I'm tired) but bear with me:fortunesque wrote...
Knoll Argonar wrote...
I don't think so. Thane, talking about his life, Mordin about the Genophage, Jack, being fulled by her own mind, Miranda, softening talking about her past, Samara and her daughter (she became more interesting after that mission though), Legion and the Geth dilemma, Tali and the Migrant Fleet... I think there's actually more content there about those characters than Liara in Noveria, really.
Even Garrus, with his actions during his loyalty mission (being very ruthless with that volus, wanting to hurt Harkin if necesary...) says more about himself than during any other convo in ME1.
And I think that's were ME2 wins: characters not only speak about something: they DO something. Mordin goes crazy when he finds that krogan experiments and his student, Tali cries when she finds her father, Samara KILLS her daughter.
That's deeper than Kaidan's past, IMO.
IMO, the idea that Shepard has to *do* something for every squadmate doesn't provide depth, it simply turns the Commander into a shrink or a errand boy.
In fact, it provides a false sense of depth. A character like Kaidan has his past squared away. He isn't distracted by something and is focused on the mission, whereas an ME2 character comes into the roster 'disloyal'- distracted by a problem to the point where they can easily die on the final mission. Instead, he (along with the rest of the ME1 squad) puts aside any personal issues in order to be focused on the task at hand: saving the galaxy.
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
Haha, alright. Wow, this actually changes my perspective on...quite a few things. Gonna have to go replay the intro at some point soon, damn it.
Edit: Ah, thanks Lastspawn that helps too. It did seem like at least a few of the characters knew each other (Like how Joker remarks that Anderson is always angry with him).
Badpie wrote...
BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
Funny part is I actually can imagine the Alenko-Jenkins incident occurring the way you described it. Jenkins definitely has the hyper active personality for it. =p
*clears throat* Had.
...too soon?
EDIT: Ninja'd!
Umanix wrote...
Comparing Kaidan's past issues to the issues of the Mass Effect 2 squadmates seems a little unfair, IMO. Kaidan's issues with BAAT happened 15 years before the events of the game. If he hadn't found some way to work past them by the time Mass Effect rolled around, I would be incredibly concerned for him.
Contrariwise, the issues that the characters from Mass Effect 2 have are either sprung upon them (Tali and her trial with the quarians, Thane with his son, Miranda with her sister, etc), or they are suddenly given information that can help them deal with these problems ASAP (Garrus with Sidonis, Samara with Morinth, Jack with the Cerberus facility, etc). They don't necessarily ask Shepard to help them "find their feelings" on these missions—they're asking Shepard to help them wrap these issues up as quickly as possible so that they can go into this Suicide Mission with no regrets. The characters in the second game are constantly being reminded of their mortality when tackling the Suicide Mission—it would make sense for them to be distracted by things they might have regretted not doing when they were given the chance.
I guess that’s why I don’t see Shepard as much of a shrink on any of the loyalty missions—none of the party members ask for Shepard’s moral guidance, they just want Shepard’s gun to help them finish the mission as soon as possible.
Modifié par Halmiriliath, 23 mars 2010 - 02:40 .
Badpie wrote...
lastpawn wrote...
Badpie wrote...
I mean, like Fort said. Kaidan didn't bother Shepard with that **** in the first game. Shepard didn't have to go find Rhana so Kaidan could get "closure." He didn't have to clear Ashley's granddad's name, etc.
To add...
In my game, Shepard actually killed Liara's mother in front of her... and he didn't have to help her "find herself" later. The amount of drama in ME2 was a bit too much. Like you said, suck it up and deal with it like Shepard does.
Honestly they could have done a lot more to flesh out Shepard's character in ME2. He was barely reactive to emotional dialogue, seemed to shrug off the whole "oh I'm working for Cerberus now" thing, etc. I would have liked for someone to ask Shepard how he was feeling and if everything was all right. You get this once or twice with Kelly, but not much else.
In ME1 it felt more fluid and actually conversational. I learned about Shepard as much as I learned about Kaidan or Wrex.
Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...
In ME1 there was more dialogue to them, and they didnt snub you if you chose not to romance them. Half of the ME2 squad has next to no content because you cant/wont romance them.
Add to that that the dialogues themselves were crap, and the romanes ridiculously brief, Id say on the whole you go to ME1 for quality, and ME2 for quantity, and crappy combat oriented loyalty missions people try and pass off as "character driven". Yup, thats right, I was really getting to grips with a character popping out of cover shooting enemies.
The squad in ME2 sucked IMO, and most are the worst characters Bioware has ever done. Hope to see a much better showing in ME3, particularly with returning ME1 crew. Its pretty much the dealbreaker for me, after a maximum of 2 squadmates out of 11 so far only impressed me in ME2. The rest sucked.
Daurf815 wrote...
The ME1 squadmates were extremely shallow compared to the ME2 team.
Well, I have to disagree with you.Axterix wrote...
Daurf815 wrote...
The ME1 squadmates were extremely shallow compared to the ME2 team.
Would disagree. Would say about equal, overall. A lot of it varies from character to character.
Consider Miranda. Miranda whines a lot about her genetic make up and that's about the sum of her out of combat stuff. And she has a touching moment with her sister.
And now Ashley. Ashley doesn't have a personal mission, but goes into her family, telling the tale of her sister and the boyfriend trouble. Also mentions the issue with the surrender of the human colony and how that has tinted her past. Her views on aliens. The poetry she read to her dad. And so on. I'd say sisterhood is about equal from a character perspective and, for the rest, Ashley comes out ahead.
Liara, on the other hand, always struck me as far less complete. She told me a little bit about her culture and that she was fascinated by Protean things. Overall, I know far less about her and what makes her tick than Ashley or Wrex.
And then you've got the returning squadmates. ME 2 Tali pretty much says what ME 1 Tali says, just less of it with less detail. And apparantly some rabid fan fic write broke into Bioware's office and changed the design doc to read that she always loved Shepard. And in doing so, accidentally erased a bunch of stuff related to Garrus, leaving him with nothing to do but check calibrations. But, on the bright side, you do get to see her in action a bit more. Outside of the fan fic addition though, what do you really know about her in ME 2 that you didn't know in ME 1?
Of course, ME 2 does have other characters that do go more into their past, what makes them tick. Thane and Jack, for example. So, both games have characters that have a lot of depth and ones that are lacking.
I think two things hurt ME 2 to a certain degree though. One is that, for several of the LI possibilities, if they aren't your LI, a bunch of stuff is cut off. And the other is that the little elevator dialogues added a lot of feeling to the characters, to see them interact with each other, even if it really didn't add that much, just felt like it.
Overall, works out about the same.
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Modifié par Karstedt, 23 mars 2010 - 05:53 .
Karstedt wrote...
To the OP: Ride the elevators often. Yes, they are too long, but the banter you get between each combination of characters provides a dimension you just don't get from the ME2 characters because for the most part because they only interact with Shep... and they more or less go along with whatever. Showing them interacting with other characters is what makes the difference. It's subtle and seems minor, but it's very effective.
Oh, and take Wrex around with each other squad mate. His constant antagonizing really help develop the others. I might actually feel differently about the depth of ME1 character is Wrex hadn't been there to prod them constantly.
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