217 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

jtav wrote...

I've heard several people say that the ME squad was deeper than their ME2 counterparts. Could someone explain this to me? My Xbox went RROD, so I've been replaying ME. You get 4-5 conversations per squadmate, about the same numbers as ME2 (I think the ME2 number may be higher, but I haven't counted). The ME LIs actually seem less developed because they don't have a personal quest. What am I missing. I can understand finding certain characters more likable, but they seem equally fleshed out.

Simple:
ME1 characters were more relevant and involved in the plot, and a few had multiple motivations toward that.
ME2 characters were more fleshed out (deeper), but they had few to no reasons or motivations toward the main plot.

[Badpie]

KotOREffecT wrote...


However one thing I'd like to see, is a personal sidequest that is like loyalty mission style for Shep involving his background as a spacer, earth born,etc. It could really delve further into who he is. They should do this for our Sheps in ME 3, or even as DLC maybe..

I would LOVE to see this.  You got a small snippet of it in ME1 based on your background, but yes.  I want to know more about Shep.  

As to your previous comment (which I accidently edited out of this), yes Shepard is warm and fuzzy with Tali in that scene (and in all their romance scenes).  I supposed I'm talking more about Shepard's supposed love interests from the first game.  Ash is there, choked up, telling him she loved him and he's like a block of wood.  Same goes for femsheps and Kaidan.  The minor hug you get from Liara as a non-romance Shep is way more emotionally meaningful than the awkward kiss the romancers got.  And again, in both cases Liara breaks down and says "I couldn't let you go" and all and Shepard is like "well, gotta run.  Later."

[InvaderErl]

smudboy wrote...


Simple:
ME1 characters were more relevant and involved in the plot, and a few had multiple motivations toward that.
ME2 characters were more fleshed out (deeper), but they had few to no reasons or motivations toward the main plot.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Characters like Thane and Samara, true had little personal involement but others like Mordin,Miranda, Jacob, Garrus and Tali had at least as much motivation for tagging along as their ME1 counterparts.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 mars 2010 - 04:41 .

[Joisan]

Badpie wrote...

KotOREffecT wrote...


However one thing I'd like to see, is a personal sidequest that is like loyalty mission style for Shep involving his background as a spacer, earth born,etc. It could really delve further into who he is. They should do this for our Sheps in ME 3, or even as DLC maybe..

I would LOVE to see this.  You got a small snippet of it in ME1 based on your background, but yes.  I want to know more about Shep.  

As to your previous comment (which I accidently edited out of this), yes Shepard is warm and fuzzy with Tali in that scene (and in all their romance scenes).  I supposed I'm talking more about Shepard's supposed love interests from the first game.  Ash is there, choked up, telling him she loved him and he's like a block of wood.  Same goes for femsheps and Kaidan.  The minor hug you get from Liara as a non-romance Shep is way more emotionally meaningful than the awkward kiss the romancers got.  And again, in both cases Liara breaks down and says "I couldn't let you go" and all and Shepard is like "well, gotta run.  Later."

Yes, I thought the writing of Shepard's responses in the Horizon reunion was pretty bad.  Didn't even think about the Liara one but that's a good point too.

[Steingrimur Steingrimsson]

I personally think that the squadmates are the absolutely strongest point of ME2. 13 gorgious characters (assuming Kasumi will be as awesome as the rest) all with their own personal mission. ME1 crew... Not so much. What ME2 lacks in story progression it gains in squadmates.

[Badpie]

Steingrimur Steingrimsson wrote...

What ME2 lacks in story progression it gains in squadmates.

There is the disconnect.  The squadmates in ME2 didn't really add to the story.  They were okay characters, but like J said before it was episodic.  The game felt broken up into different episodes.  I for one don't think you can have good characters without great story.  Just like you can't have a great story without great characters.  They go hand in hand.  So if ME2 lacks in story progression, it lacks in the character areas as well.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...


Simple:
ME1 characters were more relevant and involved in the plot, and a few had multiple motivations toward that.
ME2 characters were more fleshed out (deeper), but they had few to no reasons or motivations toward the main plot.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Characters like Thane and Samara, true had little personal involement but others like Mordin,Miranda, Jacob, Garrus and Tali had at least as much motivation for tagging along as their ME1 counterparts.

Aye, I have trouble understanding how Kaidan and Ashley, who are chosen by Anderson to stick with you, are any different from TIM sending you along with Jacob and Miranda.

[smudboy]

InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Simple:
ME1 characters were more relevant and involved in the plot, and a few had multiple motivations toward that.
ME2 characters were more fleshed out (deeper), but they had few to no reasons or motivations toward the main plot.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Characters like Thane and Samara, true had little personal involement but others like Mordin,Miranda, Jacob, Garrus and Tali had at least as much motivation for tagging along as their ME1 counterparts.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/912920/3#976205

In ME1 the team is picked up relatively quickly, and all get caught up in the plot.
In ME2, the team is recommended by TIM for absolutely no explainable reason (save Mordin.)

[InvaderErl]

I like how you've shifted gears. I say that those characters had motivation to come along and then you make a different argument.

Anyway, you play around with your thread by simplifying your explanations for the ME2 characters and then delivering long paragraphs for ME1, which is a nice trick btw.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 mars 2010 - 09:56 .

[Nozybidaj]

DarthCaine wrote...

ME1's squad mates were the most boring characters BioWare has ever made IMO

ME2's squad mates were the most boring characters BioWare has ever made IMO

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 23 mars 2010 - 09:58 .

[Yeled]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...


Simple:
ME1 characters were more relevant and involved in the plot, and a few had multiple motivations toward that.
ME2 characters were more fleshed out (deeper), but they had few to no reasons or motivations toward the main plot.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Characters like Thane and Samara, true had little personal involement but others like Mordin,Miranda, Jacob, Garrus and Tali had at least as much motivation for tagging along as their ME1 counterparts.

Aye, I have trouble understanding how Kaidan and Ashley, who are chosen by Anderson to stick with you, are any different from TIM sending you along with Jacob and Miranda.

First, Kaiden and Ashley were marines on your ship, so them coming along makes sense.  Plus, Ashley was a witness to the atrocity on Eden Prime.  She has personal motivation.

But you are right...Miranda and Jacob make perfect sense as well.  I don't think anyone can complain about them being along for the ride.

[InvaderErl]

Nozybidaj wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

ME1's squad mates were the most boring characters BioWare has ever made IMO

ME2's squad mates were the most boring characters BioWare has ever made IMO

Nozybidaj is the most boring character BioWare has ever made IMO

....

Wait, I think I screwed this up.

Do-over.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 23 mars 2010 - 10:15 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Yeled wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...


Simple:
ME1 characters were more relevant and involved in the plot, and a few had multiple motivations toward that.
ME2 characters were more fleshed out (deeper), but they had few to no reasons or motivations toward the main plot.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Characters like Thane and Samara, true had little personal involement but others like Mordin,Miranda, Jacob, Garrus and Tali had at least as much motivation for tagging along as their ME1 counterparts.

Aye, I have trouble understanding how Kaidan and Ashley, who are chosen by Anderson to stick with you, are any different from TIM sending you along with Jacob and Miranda.

First, Kaiden and Ashley were marines on your ship, so them coming along makes sense.  Plus, Ashley was a witness to the atrocity on Eden Prime.  She has personal motivation.

But you are right...Miranda and Jacob make perfect sense as well.  I don't think anyone can complain about them being along for the ride.

Er, that's my point. =p

Kaidan/Ashley were both ordered to go along with you by Anderson and from there they become more developed. It's the same situation with Miranda and Jacob whom the Illusive Mand sends.

[InvaderErl]

And Mordin's got about as much motivation as Liara did.

[smudboy]

InvaderErl wrote...

And Mordin's got about as much motivation as Liara did.

Mordin's Motivations: 1) Bargain with Shepard to help cure plague, 2) Likes Science.
Liara's Motivations: 1) Has spent her entire life as a Prothean researcher, focusing on why they disappeared.  Her dig site was overrun by the Geth where she was trapped, 2) Shepard saved her from the Geth, 3) As Benezia's daughter, is trying to find out why her mother has turned., 4) Is interested in Shepard for his visions (and then some.), 5) Really doesn't like that "Turian bastard", Saren.

Modifié par smudboy, 24 mars 2010 - 01:51 .

[smudboy]

Darht Jayder wrote...

The only person's motivation that seems contrived to me is Samara.  It is basically just that Justicars are drawn to challenging causes.  Everyone else I guess could be explained reasonably.

That does not show contrivance.

[Raphael diSanto]

Joisan wrote...

Badpie wrote...

KotOREffecT wrote...


However one thing I'd like to see, is a personal sidequest that is like loyalty mission style for Shep involving his background as a spacer, earth born,etc. It could really delve further into who he is. They should do this for our Sheps in ME 3, or even as DLC maybe..

I would LOVE to see this.  You got a small snippet of it in ME1 based on your background, but yes.  I want to know more about Shep.  

As to your previous comment (which I accidently edited out of this), yes Shepard is warm and fuzzy with Tali in that scene (and in all their romance scenes).  I supposed I'm talking more about Shepard's supposed love interests from the first game.  Ash is there, choked up, telling him she loved him and he's like a block of wood.  Same goes for femsheps and Kaidan.  The minor hug you get from Liara as a non-romance Shep is way more emotionally meaningful than the awkward kiss the romancers got.  And again, in both cases Liara breaks down and says "I couldn't let you go" and all and Shepard is like "well, gotta run.  Later."

Yes, I thought the writing of Shepard's responses in the Horizon reunion was pretty bad.  Didn't even think about the Liara one but that's a good point too.

Yes, like the Paragon solution to Zaeed's loyalty quest, it's character railroading at its finest. BioWare have decreed that no matter what you want for your Shep, no matter what personality you've given him/her, at that point in the story, s/he's going to burn his/her bridges with the ex-squadmate/LI and say stupid things.

At the end of the day, BioWare have said "We don't actually care what you want to do with your Shep in ME2, he's going to work for Cerberus and be unapologetic about it."