141 réponses à ce sujet

[MightySword]

Wicked 702 wrote...
Yeah, Xenogears' ending left a lot to be desired. Mostly because it was originally envisioned as a series. Hence the future development of Xenosaga, which the creators vehemently denied was directly related to Xenogears, but you could clearly see they were.

I'm not talking about the ending, I think it's pretty conclusive as far as wrapping thing up. It was just rushed but you don't feel the writers are trying to leave out stuff on purpose for an innevatable sequel (a charge that like I said, pretty much all games nowadays are found guilty). I was just refer to the poster above who complain about the hard to understand plot in FFVII because Xenogears story is much more intrued and complex than that of FFVII yet they do share some distinct characteristic.

If my understanding about the source material is correct, Xenosaga is pretty much a distance "prequel" to Xenogears. And duh, they have to deny the connection unless Namco wants to pain their butt to get sued by Square.

[Ryzaki]

GreedIsNoException wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

Mass Effect will have sequels to every sequel and we shall never know the end to any of the stories since each story will lack the ending

...have you actually ever played a FF game? <_<

Yes and I still ask myself what exactly happened with Tidus... why the hell did he wanna stay there? What was canon and not for the ending? What the **** is wrong with the 12 and why does Hope look like a girl while Lightning was made hot yet so skinny it surprises me she's the violent one.

...How the hell do you say they don't end? Tidus bloody VANISHED that's the ending (though that was one of the exceptions the good ending is in X-2. 12 had an ending. You not understanding it doesn't mean the game didn't have a solid ending. <_<

[Ryzaki]

For zoomed in copy of the above: http://gza.gameriot...._1257581825.png



STFU about how Jrpgs are unoriginal on the bloody BW boards. >_>

BTW the two yellow slots are the cultists and the dragon.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 mars 2010 - 10:02 .

[thepringle]

Captain Cornhole wrote...

That would be so true.


Don forget, you would'nt be able to tell the males from the females, they are all transvestites.

And what about the Bunnies. Can't think of a good compirson for that.

lolololololololololololololololollooololololololol

[Wicked 702]

@ MightySword

As far as I know, you've got that all correct 100%.

[GreedIsNoException]

Wicked 702 wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

I don't understand Sephiroth's story, too much wtf? Are all the FFs united by Kingdom Hearts? Why did it take 20 years to put a black guy?

Really? Didn't get Sephiroth? He's the demonic offspring of a planet eating parasite that fell from space, Jenova. Jenova was captured, it's cells studied (alone with Sephiroth's), in order to understand their connection to Mako energy (life energy). As Aeris' people (the Ancients) connection to the Lifestream is positive, Jenova and Sephiroth's is the antithesis. They are parasites that feed off of it. Sephiroth's only goal is to collect all his cloned cells and the cells of his dead mother so that he may resurrect her and suck the planet dry. That's his purpose.

Yeah... didn't get it again... I get he hates people and has Cloud underwear witha badass sword and a cool theme. Other than that he has this weird story (as stated above) that I just look at him with.... I don't get him. Also what moves him  and his characterization is still wird.

Anyways I know if I casted a meteor that huge it wouldn't have been stopped like how it happened in the game...

No see that's the mistake. He doesn't really hate or not hate. He sees himself as a higher being. Much like a human sees himself as superior to an ant. His only purpose is to feed and any "creatures" getting in his way, human or no, are just ants that mildly annoy and/or amuse him. He has no humanity.

Then this means Sephiroth would play the role of the Sovereign

[Wrath of Bong]

My post destructed, now I know how other people felt when I do it. LOL.

Fexelea wrote...
ME2 sales are great. Still not applicable to my original statement which
was that if SE had been behind the title the overall sales would have
been higher. I did not consider ME2 alone, but as part 2 of a successful
series for that statement. Since this is all a what-if situation, the
moment we change any factor the theory falls appart, obviously.

Well, that's where you and I are different. In your reality, SE developed both ME & ME2 and you argue the in-game didn't not radical change, despite SE being a totally different  develop than Bioware. SE had developed ME series it would had overall sales would be higher. Even though, it will be a brand new IP developed by SE and it does not have the "Final Fantasy" brand to help it sell in the US. So my question, apart from Kingdom Hearts, what other original IP developed, I say again developed by SE has been successful in the States recently?

Fexelea wrote...
I don't know where you have gathered this from. We were talking about an unrealistic scenario so I provided an equally unrealistic comment, based on the fact that SE knows how to handle Asia better. I never said they could develop the same game or be better "at it than Bioware. As I explained I took the title to mean if SE had been responsible for ME2 and by default ME1, therefore assuming a successful ME1 and fan sales from there.

Didn't you say,
* "if Mass Effect 2 had been developed and marketed by SE but still remain
"Mass Effect 2" -as in, game with previous very successful game-, we
could assume the same sales as now + multiplatform"
And this:
* "Imagine SE developed and owned Mass Effect 1. Forget about the
in-game being radically different, the giant swords or whatnot, we
assume a successful release as the real ME had in North America.
Also, didn't you just state: 
* if SE had been behind the title the overall sales would have
been higher."

Seems to me that you're stating, SE would have sold more copies of the ME series, even in North America. But how can you be sure that if SE developed ME, it would be as successful in North America? Why would I forget the in-game being radically different, if ME series had been developed, I repeat developed by SE? They are two totally different developers and goes by their own style of creating a game. Please explain that. Unless you assume, SE can duplicate what Bioware did with the ME series, plain and simple, without explanation.

Fexelea wrote...
You have had no bearing on my lack of interest in this particular subject. I have however been polite and replied to your posts but since the thread is losing steam given our lengthy back-n-forth, it is probably time to let the Jrpg-haters at it.

I don't know what a game of charades is so I cannot comment if I am interested in that or not.

I actually speaking to the people who said the this thread has become boring. I know that the two of us are having fun with our discussion. Charades is word guessing game, it's quite boring. I was joking that bit btw.

[Wrath of Bong]

Ryzaki wrote...


STFU about how Jrpgs are unoriginal on the bloody BW boards. >_>

BTW the two yellow slots are the cultists and the dragon.

Or what you'll fetch the stormtroopers on us? Shouldn't you be more at home on a JRPG or FF board, if you don't want anyone criticizing JRPGs?


If you folks want something funny:

http://img230.images...udlight2vu6.jpg

and also this:

http://kotaku.com/51...square enix-way

If SE had developed ME2, they wouldn't have let players customize your characters looks and they would just make your generic  girly man character.

Modifié par Wrath of Bong, 25 mars 2010 - 12:08 .

[Ryzaki]

Wrath of Bong wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


STFU about how Jrpgs are unoriginal on the bloody BW boards. >_>

BTW the two yellow slots are the cultists and the dragon.

Or what you'll fetch the stormtroopers on us? Shouldn't you be more at home on a JRPG or FF board, if you don't want anyone criticizing JRPGs?


If you folks want something funny:

http://img230.images...udlight2vu6.jpg

and also this:

http://kotaku.com/51...square enix-way

If SE had developed ME2, they wouldn't have let players customize your characters looks and they would just make your generic  girly man character.

Nope just makes you look like a big fat hypocrite.

Haters gonna hate.

Also: OMG two characters look the same out of SE's hundreds of games! No WAI! 

Not to mention she is supposed to be a female Cloud. Your point? 

I don't mind crictism but to say "OMG they're unoriginal!" and then proclaim BW game's as if they're not is the height of stupidity.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 12:15 .

[Fexelea]

Wrath of Bong wrote...
Well, that's where you and I are different. In your reality, SE developed both ME & ME2 and you argue the in-game didn't not radical change, despite SE being a totally different  develop than Bioware. SE had developed ME series it would had overall sales would be higher. Even though, it will be a brand new IP developed by SE and it does not have the "Final Fantasy" brand to help it sell in the US. So my question, apart from Kingdom Hearts, what other original IP developed, I say again developed by SE has been successful in the States recently?

Again: I assumed ME2 as a successor to a successful ME both by Square Enix. I don't see why it would be impossible to conceive of a new IP selling well, but that "impossibility" was not part of my point. Maybe I'm not being clear. My assumptions step-by-step:

1. SE develops ME1. It is a huge success in NA (for whatever reason that makes new IPs take off for any company)
2. SE develops ME2. It is a huge success in NA (fans + whatever reason) + multiplatform + other regions.

---
This is what I meant: If SE had made what we know as Mass Effect (aka a space soap opera that was hugely successful)they would have had a better global footprint to increase sales.
---

You are argueing that if it was SE who developed it would be impossible for them to sell well in NA. I don't see why. They could have intended to make a Wrpg. They could have gotten lucky. They could have bought out the Bioware team... there are many "coulds" and "ifs" that bring a different "what if". Those discussions are not relevant to the original set of assumptions I made. You are wanting to discuss something else, and I have no interest in that. I"m typing this because I appreciate when people clarify their point, so I do the same.

Wrath of Bong wrote...
Didn't you say,
* "if Mass Effect 2 had been developed and marketed by SE but still remain
"Mass Effect 2" -as in, game with previous very successful game-, we
could assume the same sales as now + multiplatform"
And this:
* "Imagine SE developed and owned Mass Effect 1. Forget about the
in-game being radically different, the giant swords or whatnot, we
assume a successful release as the real ME had in North America.
Also, didn't you just state: 
* if SE had been behind the title the overall sales would have
been higher."

Seems to me that you're stating, SE would have sold more copies of the ME series, even in North America. But how can you be sure that if SE developed ME, it would be as successful in North America? Why would I forget the in-game being radically different, if ME series had been developed, I repeat developed by SE? They are two totally different developers and goes by their own style of creating a game. Please explain that. Unless you assume, SE can duplicate what Bioware did with the ME series, plain and simple, without explanation.

1. How can you be sure that SE wouldn't sell more copies of ME in NA? This is a supposition, an absurd scenario, an "anything can happen".
2. The point I made about "forgetting" about the in-game being radically different is because I assumed a successful first title. Therefore the content of the game would be irrelevant: it sold. The first title's success was not the conclusion, it was part of the basis.
3. You are demanding explanations on a proposition I have already given you the basis for. If you cannot make the logical assessment that if you continue to change the parameters the equation changes, then you are denying yourself of the very answer you seek.

Wrath of Bong wrote...

I actually speaking to the people who said the this thread has become boring. I know that the two of us are having fun with our discussion. Charades is word guessing game, it's quite boring. I was joking that bit btw.

I didn't see those posts when I replied. Again I have no particular interest in the subject, but I have tried my best to clarify what I meant. If you don't get it at this point, then I will have to conclude that you are being obtuse for the sake of it and just perpetuating a useless argument over a what-if scenario.

[the_one_54321]

Wrath of Bong wrote...
http://img230.images...udlight2vu6.jpg

No s*** Sherlock. That was completely deliberate. It was even talked about in an interview with the games director.

Ryzaki wrote...
If SE had developed ME2, they wouldn't have let players customize your characters looks and they would just make your generic  girly man character.

As opposed to generic manly character... I mean Shepard? 

Ryzaki wrote...
Nope just makes you look like a big fat hypocrite.
Haters gonna hate.

That about sums it up.

Anyone that argues that BioWare is always original and full of variability is talking out their a**. And I love BioWare, btw.

[Wrath of Bong]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nope just makes you look like a big fat hypocrite.

Haters gonna hate.

Also: OMG two characters look the same out of SE's hundreds of games! No WAI! 

Not to mention she is supposed to be a female Cloud. Your point? 

I don't mind crictism but to say "OMG they're unoriginal!" and then proclaim BW game's as if they're not is the height of stupidity.

I'm not stopping people critizing WRPGs, as I don't tell them to "STFU", as you clearly did when people are having their saying about JRPGs.

As to my point, isn't it cliche of JRPGs to make androgynous characters? Or don't you get that point?

[Ryzaki]

Wrath of Bong wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Nope just makes you look like a big fat hypocrite.

Haters gonna hate.

Also: OMG two characters look the same out of SE's hundreds of games! No WAI! 

Not to mention she is supposed to be a female Cloud. Your point? 

I don't mind crictism but to say "OMG they're unoriginal!" and then proclaim BW game's as if they're not is the height of stupidity.

I'm not stopping people critizing WRPGs, as I don't tell them to "STFU", as you clearly did when people are having their saying about JRPGs.

As to my point, isn't it cliche of JRPGs to make androgynous characters? Or don't you get that point?

Uh I thought you were trying to slam SE game in favor of BW with the whole "its cliche" excuse. If I misinterpreted my bad.

Uh yeah. But its cliche of BW to continue following that chart. Both companies do it because that is what the audience they are aiming for enjoys. Tis not hard to understand. I happen to like androgynous characters and get tired of a bald male characters, who are muscular and rough that aways save the day. It gets old, real fast. Both genres have their good and bad points, and claiming one is worse than the other is nothing more than subjectivity. Frankly I'm sick of the "cold girl that you need to break out of her shell" in both genres. *God I wish I could kill Morrigan*.

I like having androynous guys in SE games. If they replaced my Roxas, Sora, and Cloud with someone that looked like Sten, or a bald space marine guy #999999 I'd rage. Different games have different audiences, if you don't like the genre, chances are you're not the audience. So instead of trying to bend the whole genre to conform to your view, go find games that are aiming for you as an audience. 

As it is you're just complaining about things that aren't tailored for you. Boo hoo.

Everyone doesn't like the same thing. Just because a game you like isn't as popular as one you don't, doesn't make the game you don't like a worse game. You just don't like it. I hate Halo with a passion, but I would never say it was a bad game.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 01:08 .

[MerinTB]

There are about 3 of you who Wrath of Bong is "trying to be friends with."



When you realize that and what it means you will probably stop trying.

[Wrath of Bong]

Fexelea wrote...

Again: I assumed ME2 as a successor to a successful ME both by Square Enix. I don't see why it would be impossible to conceive of a new IP selling well, but that "impossibility" was not part of my point. Maybe I'm not being clear. My assumptions step-by-step:

1. SE develops ME1. It is a huge success in NA (for whatever reason that makes new IPs take off for any company)
2. SE develops ME2. It is a huge success in NA (fans + whatever reason) + multiplatform + other regions.

---
This is what I meant: If SE had made what we know as Mass Effect (aka a space soap opera that was hugely successful)they would have had a better global footprint to increase sales.
---

Again, I'm asking why do you think ME 1 would be successful if it was developed by SE, apart from having the Japanese market? You haven't answered that question. If you are just going to say, SE will be successful on both ME 1 and base it on virtually nothing, then you can easily substitute SE for Bethesda or Lionheart and say if they have developed the ME 1 they would be successful too. I find it hard to believe that ME won't change much, if it was developed by SE. ME is not going to be the same game as Bioware, if SE had their mitts on it.

Fexelea wrote...
You are argueing that if it was SE who developed it would be impossible for them to sell well in NA. I don't see why. They could have intended to make a Wrpg. They could have gotten lucky. They could have bought out the Bioware team... there are many "coulds" and "ifs" that bring a different "what if". Those discussions are not relevant to the original set of assumptions I made. You are wanting to discuss something else, and I have no interest in that. I"m typing this because I appreciate when people clarify their point, so I do the same.

Not saying it's impossible for SE to sell well in NA ,if they developed ME series. But it can't just be down to blind luck. Both SE and Bioware are successful companies, not because they rely on luck. Has there been a history of SE developing a successful WRPG? If not, how are you confident they will make a good WRPG? If we are going by that, then you assume Bioware can make a good JRPG?
Now, you are trailing off about SE buying out Bioware, when we are talking about SE developing ME themselves.

Fexelea wrote...
1. How can you be sure that SE wouldn't sell more copies of ME in NA? This is a supposition, an absurd scenario, an "anything can happen".

I already explained that on my previous post. If SE developed ME, it's brand new IP (so it's going to have "Final Fantasy" brand to boost sales) as JRPGs (that's not FF) are not as popular today in NA so I doubt it can sell millions close to what Bioware achieve with ME2, SE themselves admit they have difficulty creating towns in HD so i don't know why do you think they can create the cities in ME and SE hasn't got a history in developing successful WRPGs like Bioware had. These reasons are not made up, they are facts.

Fexelea wrote...
I didn't see those posts when I replied. Again I have no particular interest in the subject, but I have tried my best to clarify what I meant. If you don't get it at this point, then I will have to conclude that you are being obtuse for the sake of it and just perpetuating a useless argument over a what-if scenario.

I would say the same thing about you. Good day.

[Ryzaki]

Also: If SE made ME it wouldn't be the ME we're playing. >_> ME fits the BioWare cliche chart not the SE one.

Though if SE made the game we'd actually have decent looking characters and not the butt ugly ones we have now.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 mars 2010 - 01:27 .

[Wrath of Bong]

MerinTB wrote...

There are about 3 of you who Wrath of Bong is "trying to be friends with."

When you realize that and what it means you will probably stop trying.

I thought you said from another thread that you'll have nothing to do with me? Unless, you have something interesting to add about this discuss, I say, thanks for dropping by.

Ryzaki wrote...
As it is you're just complaining about things
that aren't tailored for you. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] Boo
hoo.

Everyone doesn't like the same thing. Just because a game
you like isn't as popular as one you don't, doesn't make the game you
don't like a worse game. You just don't like it. I hate Halo with a
passion, but I would never say it was a bad game.

i don't hate SE or JRPG, as I grew up with those games. If it does feel like I do, it's probably because I was disappointed with FFXIII. If I found ME2 disappointing, I would probably do the same for ME2 and Bioware.

Modifié par Wrath of Bong, 25 mars 2010 - 01:28 .

[Fexelea]

Wrath of Bong wrote...
Again, I'm asking why do you think ME 1 would be successful if it was developed by SE, apart from having the Japanese market? You haven't answered that question. If you are just going to say, SE will be successful on both ME 1 and base it on virtually nothing, then you can easily substitute SE for Bethesda or Lionheart and say if they have developed the ME 1 they would be successful too. I find it hard to believe that ME won't change much, if it was developed by SE. ME is not going to be the same game as Bioware, if SE had their mitts on it.

Maybe you haven't done many hypothetical scenarios and you are not aware of how the ground is set. I don't have to justify why I make the assumption. I have to justify why I make the conclusion. The assumption has to be the logical basis of the conclusion. You are right that if you replace the assumption then the conclusion changes. However I haven't changed it, and I don't have an interest in changing it.

Wrath of Bong wrote...
Not saying it's impossible for SE to sell well in NA ,if they developed ME series. But it can't just be down to blind luck. Both SE and Bioware are successful companies, not because they rely on luck. Has there been a history of SE developing a successful WRPG? If not, how are you confident they will make a good WRPG? If we are going by that, then you assume Bioware can make a good JRPG?
Now, you are trailing off about SE buying out Bioware, when we are talking about SE developing ME themselves.

I see you continue to try to alter my argument in an effort to get through to what you want to say. I have not equated the two companies nor have I said one is better than the other. I have no interest in discussing that and your questioning of my initial assumption generates a new theory that I have no interest in discussing. Please understand that the moment I made an assumption I created a scenario that then I followed to a conclusion. If you change the assumption you change the scenario. That's all there is to it. You are the one who is "trailing off", in what seems like an attempt to force your intended discussion. Give it up.

On a side note I do think that if SE wanted it they *could* make a good Wrpg. I also think they don't want to. I do think Bioware *could* make a good Jrpg. I also think they don't want to. I do think that if Square Enix bought Bioware they Bioware would be Square Enix. That's how it works. 

Wrath of Bong wrote...
I already explained that on my previous post. If SE developed ME, it's brand new IP (so it's going to have "Final Fantasy" brand to boost sales) as JRPGs (that's not FF) are not as popular today in NA so I doubt it can sell millions close to what Bioware achieve with ME2, SE themselves admit they have difficulty creating towns in HD so i don't know why do you think they can create the cities in ME and SE hasn't got a history in developing successful WRPGs like Bioware had. These reasons are not made up, they are facts.

No, they are not facts, they are assumptions. You have no way of telling what success would or not be had by Square Enix where they to develop Mass Effect. The historical data that you propose is irrelevant when the core issue would be Square Enix having developed a successful Mass Effect. How did they manage it? Not part of my conclusion, but part of my assumption. You do realize you are going in circles right?

Wrath of Bong wrote...
I would say the same thing about you. Good day.

I would not agree with that. I have clarified my statement several times and explained to you that once you make an assumption it is only the conclusion that is produced. If you question the assumption you create a new scenario and I have stated I have no interest in doing that. You have instead continued to try to force me to alter the assumption by questioning its footing in reality. That is asking for another scenario!

You are obviously not very good at logic.

[Ryzaki]

Wrath of Bong wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

There are about 3 of you who Wrath of Bong is "trying to be friends with."

When you realize that and what it means you will probably stop trying.

I thought you said from another thread that you'll have nothing to do with me? Unless, you have something interesting to add about this discuss, I say, thanks for dropping by.

Ryzaki wrote...
As it is you're just complaining about things
that aren't tailored for you. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] Boo
hoo.

Everyone doesn't like the same thing. Just because a game
you like isn't as popular as one you don't, doesn't make the game you
don't like a worse game. You just don't like it. I hate Halo with a
passion, but I would never say it was a bad game.

i don't hate SE or JRPG, as I grew up with those games. If it does feel like I do, it's probably because I was disappointed with FFXIII. If I found ME2 disappointing, I would probably do the same for ME2 and Bioware.

*shrugs* Oh well. I just get tired of people throwing the word cliche around especially on these boards. <_<

[Wicked 702]

cliche!



Sorry, I had to.

[Wrath of Bong]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Wrath of Bong wrote...
http://img230.images...udlight2vu6.jpg

No s*** Sherlock. That was completely deliberate. It was even talked about in an interview with the games director.

My point is JRPGs is well-known to make androgynous characters.

the_one_54321 wrote...
As opposed to generic manly character... I mean Shepard? 

A character whose looks and gender you can customized, unlike most JRPGs.

Modifié par Wrath of Bong, 25 mars 2010 - 02:57 .

[Wrath of Bong]

Fexelea wrote...
I see you continue to try to alter my argument in an effort to get through to what you want to say. I have not equated the two companies nor have I said one is better than the other. I have no interest in discussing that and your questioning of my initial assumption generates a new theory that I have no interest in discussing. Please understand that the moment I made an assumption I created a scenario that then I followed to a conclusion. If you change the assumption you change the scenario. That's all there is to it. You are the one who is "trailing off", in what seems like an attempt to force your intended discussion. Give it up.

You orignally stated that ME would sell more if it was developed by SE. Didn't you say: "if SE had been behind the title the overall sales would have
been
higher." Higher than Bioware made, isn't that what you mean?
I'm just trying to get how you got to your conclusion but if you don't want to come up with a good answer and just come up with "just cause" then I give up

Fexelea wrote...
On a side note I do think that if SE wanted it they *could* make a good Wrpg. I also think they don't want to. I do think Bioware *could* make a good Jrpg. I also think they don't want to. I do think that if Square Enix bought Bioware they Bioware would be Square Enix. That's how it works. 

And your basing that because SE had developed a good WRPG before? If so, what is it called? As for Bioware, the closes thing they have of a JRPG is Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood and it stunk.

Fexelea wrote...
No, they are not facts, they are assumptions. You have no way of telling what success would or not be had by Square Enix where they to develop Mass Effect. The historical data that you propose is irrelevant when the core issue would be Square Enix having developed a successful Mass Effect. How did they manage it? Not part of my conclusion, but part of my assumption. You do realize you are going in circles right?

How can you not consider historical data? If you think SE suddenly developed magic to make an WRPG like ME out of thin air then good for you.
What I stated before are facts:
1. Name a game that SE developed that sold as well as Bioware's ME2 in NA that does not have FInal Fantasy on it? None.
2. It's well documented that Motomu Toriyama himself said: "It is a result of considering HD graphics will be the mainstream.
Considering the amount of work to make graphics that deserve HD, it is
hard to make towns in the conventional style," http://www.1up.com/d...ory?cId=3177829
3. has SE experienced developing a good WRPG? No.

Fexelea wrote...
I would not agree with that. I have clarified my statement several times and explained to you that once you make an assumption it is only the conclusion that is produced. If you question the assumption you create a new scenario and I have stated I have no interest in doing that. You have instead continued to try to force me to alter the assumption by questioning its footing in reality. That is asking for another scenario!

You are obviously not very good at logic.

I'm trying to get how you came to your conclusion, But if you are simply saying "if SE made ME2, it would sell higher as it does now" without explanation,fine stick with that.

[Fexelea]

Wrath of Bong wrote...
You orignally stated that ME would sell more if it was developed by SE. Didn't you say: "if SE had been behind the title the overall sales would have
been
higher." Higher than Bioware made, isn't that what you mean?
I'm just trying to get how you got to your conclusion but if you don't want to come up with a good answer and just come up with "just cause" then I give up

I had not therefore I CLARIFIED. Your refusing my clarification is irrelevant to the fact that I have been civil and provided it.

Wrath of Bong wrote...
And your basing that because SE had developed a good WRPG before? If so, what is it called? As for Bioware, the closes thing they have of a JRPG is Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood and it stunk.

What has been done up to date for particular markets is Irrelevant. I think they are both good developing houses that could branch to do different things. Saying they can do only what they have always done and that they could not succeed in other genres would be insulting the talent of all involved.

Wrath of Bong wrote...
How can you not consider historical data? If you think SE suddenly developed magic to make an WRPG like ME out of thin air then good for you.

Historical data has no place in a hypothesis which basis is that the historical data shows a successful ME1 launch by SE. Are you seriously this thick or are you pretending for the thrills?

Wrath of Bong wrote...
1. Name a game that SE developed that sold as well as Bioware's ME2 in NA that does not have FInal Fantasy on it? None.

Irrelevant to a hypothetical discussion which bases on a successful Mass Effect by SE

Wrath of Bong wrote...
2. It's well documented that Motomu Toriyama himself said: "It is a result of considering HD graphics will be the mainstream.
Considering the amount of work to make graphics that deserve HD, it is
hard to make towns in the conventional style," http://www.1up.com/d...ory?cId=3177829

So? You are assuming this means they will always give up and not try to improve and generate the towns?.

Wrath of Bong wrote...
3. has SE experienced developing a good WRPG? No.

Irrelevant to a hypothetical discussion which bases on a successful Mass Effect by SE

Wrath of Bong wrote...
I'm trying to get how you came to your conclusion, But if you are simply saying "if SE made ME2, it would sell higher as it does now" without explanation,fine stick with that.

I have explained why I think the hypothetical Mass Effect 2 developed by SE (who I also assumed developed a successful ME1) would sell more than the real ME2. Previous success + multiplatform + Asia sales.

The fact that you are refusing to agree to the assumptions does not change anything. Make your own assumptions and try to correlate them to whatever conclusions you want to reach. It has nothing to do with my comments.

[GreedIsNoException]

We're not fighting over who makes more sales people! We're fighting over what it would have been like. You know, the changes in a comical way. Not saying Square Ennix ain't good developers, it's just the know anything with FINAL FANTASY will sell rather than put more funding in other tittles they like chocobos, moogles and Cid long enough to make 14 plus Crystal Chronicles plus other games. Oh and Kingdom Hearts that had FINAL FANTASY characters.



As for Bioware, they know they don't need to make an infinite number of games to make cash. Though more ME is appreciated it is mainstream and connects unlike FINAL FANTASY.