98 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i think the easiest conclusion for the free early dlc is simply to keep people interested in

No. According to EA it is to get a bit of the 2 billion dollar market of second hand games. That's seems to be their intention. It's of course nice to give away some stuff to your customers. But that's an illusion. Apparently you fell for it.

it might be for EA. but for the folks who work @ BW - Mass Effect is an important franchise, and you don't build a franchise by pissing off your customers. Do you really think they go to the effort of making big DLC like Kasumi's mission to get in on the 2nd hand games market? no, they want exisiting and new players to continue playing their game.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Weskerr wrote...

So, if the Cerberus network is not free, would buying the game new without the Cerberus Network reduce the value of the ME2 product as a whole? This is a hypothetical question because you cannot buy Mass Effect 2 new without also receiving access to the Cerberus Network, but if you could, would the price of the game decrease as a result? Does the CN have inherent value that increases the total price of the game?

If the answer to these questions is "yes," then the CN is not free. If the answer is "no" then it is free.

That's hard to answer. It's partially subjective of course. If I compare the average duration of playthroughs for ME1 and ME2 games, then in my case the ME1 duration was longer. I tend to play every mission, bug any NPC, and read the codex at times. But was is better in quality? Also, ME1 was released at the end of 2007 and ME2 early 2010. Games in general improve each year. How do I take that into account? I still think ME1 is a good game, but no one can deny that certain aspects of ME2 have been improved.

The only thing that we can do is to give honest feedback about what we think about those DLCs. There is no other way. To be silent "because it is is free" is not in our own interest. If you think that the content is good praise it and if it isn't tell why you think it's not up to par.

[blasto lives]

I agree that the "free" dlc should not be viewed as a generous gift. Aside from the used-game and pirating justifications I can think of a few other possible benefits:

1) I'm pretty sure that Marketing will say DLC doesn't sell as well as it could because some users don't know/care how to get the new content. "Free" downloads provide a strong incentive for people to familiarize themselves with the DLC acquisition process, increasing the potential sales of DLC.

2) Almost all interested users will download "free" content. The number of downloads will let them know the maximum size of the customer pool. What percentage of people who download the Hammerhead will download the costumes? What percent will download Kasumi? This info should help their sales projections and help Bioware tailor content to their fanbase. It could also let them know when interest has diminished enough that further DLC isn't profitable.

3) In the old "No DLC" model, ME2 would have shipped with Zaeed, Kasumi, and the Hammerhead... but it would have shipped later (1 month? 3 months?). All of the payoff for game creators/publishers comes after release. "Free" DLC might allow them to shorten dev time, albeit by a small amount.

4) They generate goodwill amongst the fanbase by appearing to give things away for free.



In summary, I see several plausible benefits for the company to adopt a "free" dlc model, without any real downsides. For consumers, I don't really see any major positives or negatives, outside of warping the used game market.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Jebel Krong wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i think the easiest conclusion for the free early dlc is simply to keep people interested in

No. According to EA it is to get a bit of the 2 billion dollar market of second hand games. That's seems to be their intention. It's of course nice to give away some stuff to your customers. But that's an illusion. Apparently you fell for it.

it might be for EA. but for the folks who work @ BW - Mass Effect is an important franchise, and you don't build a franchise by pissing off your customers. Do you really think they go to the effort of making big DLC like Kasumi's mission to get in on the 2nd hand games market? no, they want exisiting and new players to continue playing their game.

I am trying to play the advocate of the devil.

The idea is to convince the second hand market that buying the complete experience has an advantage. So, on top of the price you pay for the second hand game you also have to pay 15 dollar. If the content for the total price (second hand game plus CN) is great then maybe you'll reach a threshold and consider buying the new game instead of the second hand one or consider buying at least the CN on top of it. If it is crap then nobody will want it, your regular customers will be unhappy with the crappy free stuff as well, and EA and BioWare have failed.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

The 10 dollar plan is GOOD for the developers, and BAD for cheapskates. If someone's mad because they can't have everything while still "getting a bargain" well....sucks for them. Maybe they shouldn't be so CHEAP.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

The 10 dollar plan is GOOD for the developers, and BAD for cheapskates. If someone's mad because they can't have everything while still "getting a bargain" well....sucks for them. Maybe they shouldn't be so CHEAP.

But EA should never release bad quality stuff for that price, otherwise they'll never buy it. You may not like those people and see them as freeloaders, but EA/BioWare sees them as a potential 2 billion dollar market from which they can have a piece. They don't care who they sell to, as long as they can make a profit they are happy. And right now they don't make one for the last 3 years.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 23 mars 2010 - 11:22 .

[Captain Crash]

From a marketing point you cant fault Bioware/EA with this. It also works in a sense with piracy. Even if someone got hold of a pirated ME2 for the extra DLC content they still need a code which they may still need to pay for. Also keeps a regular income coming in on top of game sales.



Simple business ME2 profit = budget for ME3 = better game.

[Dezhem]

If they dare to try and tack multiplayer on to ME3 I'm going to froth at the mouth. Cerberus Network/day one DLC etc I'm fine with.

[FutureBoy81]

Jebel Krong wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i think the easiest conclusion for the free early dlc is simply to keep people interested in

No. According to EA it is to get a bit of the 2 billion dollar market of second hand games. That's seems to be their intention. It's of course nice to give away some stuff to your customers. But that's an illusion. Apparently you fell for it.

it might be for EA. but for the folks who work @ BW - Mass Effect is an important franchise, and you don't build a franchise by pissing off your customers. Do you really think they go to the effort of making big DLC like Kasumi's mission to get in on the 2nd hand games market? no, they want exisiting and new players to continue playing their game.

Gheez how big do you think her mission is, and to add insult to injury she doesnt even have a dialogue wheel 

Modifié par FutureBoy81, 23 mars 2010 - 11:35 .

[Ecael]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The idea that the content is free is misleading if you think they are
merely gifts. They are not. The are part of a well crafted plan to keep
the customer happy and to make more profit for EA and BioWare. Nothing
wrong with that. The people who bought a second hand copy of these games
need to pay for the same "free" content.

I'll have to agree with you on that.

The free DLC aren't gifts, they're just a chance for BioWare to complete unfinished content while hitting the release date set by EA. It allows the game to release on time and allows us to obtain that extra content instead of forever leaving it on the scrap heap. Everyone benefits.

However, the question is what is considered unfinished content. I would have been glad if they made free DLC for everything up to (and including) Kasumi, because it still feels like Kasumi should have been in the release version the whole time.

[bombUp]

 Your on the money AngryFW

but I really don't have a problem with it.

Both games would still be complete without have the few free extras they give you.

But when EA starts breaking games up to milk us for even more money is when I will have a problem. 

[Deluge82]

As for me, I'll keep buying used games, especially those I'm unsure if I'd care much for, I did this with Fallout 3 not a huge fan of the sand-box style. For me this wont change, I refuse to pay 60 50 or even 40 dollars on a game that I find isn't as fun for ME as it was for my friend.



DLC I see as all is well and good till the game is blatantly butchered in the proses, as in say the Suicide Mission wasn't included at release (an extreme example but it serves my point). At that point I'd stop being a consumer of said company.



Free DLC, yes it's all well and good, weather is is an appearance of being "free" or not. Criticism is also good, if it is given in a constructive and mature manner, even for a "free" item. Through Criticism the company can get a better idea of what their consumers expect, or enjoy in their project, and what their consumers do not enjoy, thus allowing them to make future content (DLC or full games mind) that may be more appealing.



In short, I have nothing against EA's 10 dollar plan, from a business standpoint it is a smart move. However it will not change my buying habits, and I wont complain when i get a used for 15 dollars, find I love the game and willingly spend the 10 more for the DLC, well unless the DLC proves to be lackluster or garbage. Also I am in support of Constructive and Mature criticism, it helps the company to better serve it's client-ell, aka us.

[Jebel Krong]

FutureBoy81 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i think the easiest conclusion for the free early dlc is simply to keep people interested in

No. According to EA it is to get a bit of the 2 billion dollar market of second hand games. That's seems to be their intention. It's of course nice to give away some stuff to your customers. But that's an illusion. Apparently you fell for it.

it might be for EA. but for the folks who work @ BW - Mass Effect is an important franchise, and you don't build a franchise by pissing off your customers. Do you really think they go to the effort of making big DLC like Kasumi's mission to get in on the 2nd hand games market? no, they want exisiting and new players to continue playing their game.

Gheez how big do you think her mission is, and to add insult to injury she doesnt even have a dialogue wheel 

BW are saying 90-minute full side-mission. if zaeed's is any indication $7 for the equivalent is an absolute bargain. get over yourself "no ship dialogue" as if that's the most important thing...

[phordicus]

it's not just speculation that Riccitiello's ass is on the line this year. even if EA manages to turn it around in the short term, the negative feedback on these Profit of a Thousand Needles schemes could send him to the gallows anyway. EA has a well-earned reputation as blood-sucking franchise killers. but EA also knows that there are tons of morons out there with spare cash and no clue who will buy up pretty much anything shiny and new regardless of quality or value. sales of Madden and DA: Awakenings confirm this.



bioware has zero (ZERO) to do with how this game is marketed or distributed. the natural exceptions are the heads of the major departments and ray and whatshisname, of course.

[SurfaceBeneath]

scyphozoa wrote...
I wish Bioware would poll us about what type of DLC we want.

Judging by how gigantic the Tali fan threads on these boards are, I'm pretty positive that is a wish you'd very swiftly regret unless you relished the thought of a DLC pack entirely devoted to new ways of spending cuddle time with Tali.

[phordicus]

Jebel Krong wrote...

BW are saying 90-minute full side-mission. if zaeed's is any indication $7 for the equivalent is an absolute bargain. get over yourself "no ship dialogue" as if that's the most important thing...

you should know by now those game time estimates are hugely overblown.  RtO and WK were both 1/3 to 1/2 of their advertised times.  zaeed's mission takes less than 30 minutes.  you think kasumi's is much more?  remember, they're charging you 15% of the full game's cost for at best 6% more content.  if you're going to be a shill, at least be an informed one.

[SurfaceBeneath]

phordicus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

BW are saying 90-minute full side-mission. if zaeed's is any indication $7 for the equivalent is an absolute bargain. get over yourself "no ship dialogue" as if that's the most important thing...

you should know by now those game time estimates are hugely overblown.  RtO and WK were both 1/3 to 1/2 of their advertised times.  zaeed's mission takes less than 30 minutes.  you think kasumi's is much more?  remember, they're charging you 15% of the full game's cost for at best 6% more content.  if you're going to be a shill, at least be an informed one.

What's the worth of the Kasumi add on if it motivates me to start a new game and play it over again, in essence turning a 7 dollar investment into another 25ish hours of play time?

[Jebel Krong]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

phordicus wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

BW are saying 90-minute full side-mission. if zaeed's is any indication $7 for the equivalent is an absolute bargain. get over yourself "no ship dialogue" as if that's the most important thing...

you should know by now those game time estimates are hugely overblown.  RtO and WK were both 1/3 to 1/2 of their advertised times.  zaeed's mission takes less than 30 minutes.  you think kasumi's is much more?  remember, they're charging you 15% of the full game's cost for at best 6% more content.  if you're going to be a shill, at least be an informed one.

What's the worth of the Kasumi add on if it motivates me to start a new game and play it over again, in essence turning a 7 dollar investment into another 25ish hours of play time?

and it depends very much on how you play it - sure you can blast through it in 20 minutes(?) or maybe a bit less, but where's the fun in that? i like to enjoy it, and i'm sure i'll play it more than once, too. what is the numerical value of enjoyment, btw?

[phordicus]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

What's the worth of the Kasumi add on if it motivates me to start a new game and play it over again, in essence turning a 7 dollar investment into another 25ish hours of play time?

what motivates you is amazingly irrelevant.  i can't believe you thought that was worth posting.  there's too many things to tear apart here so i'll just move on and let you start over.

[Burdokva]

Whether or not it's free is irrelevant when it comes to criticism - I don't want to get into the debate if EA is offering free DLC or aiming at used games - but even if it was completely free of charge, any and all content should and must be criticized. Why?



Because it helps the devs to improve the game. Criticism isn't the slew of threads "I HATE this - that", "FAIL bla-bla-bla" that seem to pop out in the forum every day, that's whining and nonconstructive.



For example, I'm rather concerned with the need to remap my custom key-bindings for the Firewalker DLC to work properly. Doesn't that undermine the entire concept of free control scheme on the PC? But I'll wait and see once it's released and even if I have negative comments, I would post them appropriately and politely.

[SurfaceBeneath]

phordicus wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

What's the worth of the Kasumi add on if it motivates me to start a new game and play it over again, in essence turning a 7 dollar investment into another 25ish hours of play time?

what motivates you is amazingly irrelevant.  i can't believe you thought that was worth posting.  there's too many things to tear apart here so i'll just move on and let you start over.

>Implying you simply can't think of an effective counter-argument.

[javierabegazo]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i think the easiest conclusion for the free early dlc is simply to keep people interested in

No. According to EA it is to get a bit of the 2 billion dollar market of second hand games. That's seems to be their intention. It's of course nice to give away some stuff to your customers. But that's an illusion. Apparently you fell for it.

God forbid the game developer get more money for it's games. I don't see anything wrong with this at all really. Retailers like Gamestop rip gamers off like hell with their trade in values especially when you put them next to the prices they slap on the used games when they go back on the shelf.

This was a genius plan and I personally am not going to care one bit if the Game Developer gets more revenue than the Game Retailer