103 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

@ CmndFenix & Ahglock & Raphael & Kraken-- (lol...I'm clearly just lazy)

Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. I don't understand why Bioware would hype up that the Mass Effect Series is "a game of choice, where your actions have consequences on the entire galaxy" if they plan on giving us options that don't adhere to this statement.

Choosing the Par/Ren option in Tali's trial makes her A. Not Exiled and B. Loyal to Shepard, thus more likely to survive the mission. How does that action have any consequences? From my standpoint, it does not.

And like I said before, CmndFenix, there are ways to encorporate your story elements into the difficult decisions players desire-- why can't Shepard badmouth the council during his "We have no evidence" choice? To strengthen Shepard's character, he can still STATE that the trial is a complete joke and shut down the council...just don't reward the player with no consequences in doing so.

If they do that, then where's the "action's consequences" they preach on and on about?

Well, the point is that you *can* make the decision that shapes the world.  By making the para/rene options do what they do, they can effectively make sure most players adhere to the narrative that they want you to follow.  Sure, you can be the outlier and hand over the evidence, splintering the Quarian fleet and guaranteeing that they will be of no use to you against the Reapers later, but every single other option goes against that.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 24 mars 2010 - 04:18 .

[Chuvvy]

I've done it multiple times. ****'s sooo cash.

[Internet Kraken]

Akrylik wrote...



im not entirely sure knowing that Rael was responsible for the reactivation and experimentation of the geth shows any significance to the fact that they were simply reactivated and experimented upon, leaving significant information regardless of who did it. it's not like the ship was destroyed and any such important information is unobtainable without Shep's presentation. in fact after the loyalty mission you get an email stating that the experiments contribute to the quarian's understanding regardless of whatever outcome recieved. the only possible significant variable i can possibly see is that if the quarians discovered Rael was intentionally experimenting on geth the quarians would have a change of heart toward the geth, which is too far fetched for technical plausibility.

Though my bad on assuming your shep supported the war effort, but from Shep's point of view the reason he should be participating in the trial is for Tali, not the quarians. The exploration and retrieval of data from the Alarei should be their utmost concern, which they of course partake. not to mention the fate of 2 races should not necisarily be judged on the effects of the experiments of a few individuals anyway, for the sake of adressing the magnitude of the conflict.

when it all comes to play in ME3, Quarians knowing or not knowing everything was Rael's fault should be insignificant to the grand scheme of the conflict.

I know that the Admirals acquire the data from Rael's experiments regardless of what you do. The difference is that when you show the evidence, the public has knowledge of this, where as in the former scenario it only contained to the admiralty board. And you're wrong about the Quarians not changing over what Rael did. In Tali's own words, some of them are horrified by his actions.



And like I said earlier, while the initial goal of the mission is to help Tali, I would be a fool to not realize that the choice you make affects far more than just her. Plus in the long run I think that getting her exiled is far more harmful anyways. And I disagree that Rael's faults are insignificant. Considering how radically things changed based on your actions in the trial, I'd say it was pretty damn important (or it at least should be). Though to be fair Rael's data didn't really cause the Quarian's to split. It was made clear that there was already massive political tension between the Quarian's over the Geth issue, and that Rael's actions simply marked the final divide. It seems likely that they would have separated anyways. So maybe you're correct in saying that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Internet Kraken]

Shandepared wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

And like I said earlier, while the initial goal of the mission is to help Tali, I would be a fool to not realize that the choice you make affects far more than just her.

Yeah, it does affect a lot of people; it affects the entire galaxy. By ensuring that you have a disgruntled tech specialist along for a highly dangerous and important mission you are risking the lives of the entire galaxy. I hate to be the one to break this to you but are a fool.

There is a picture of you next to the term "lawful stupid" in the nerd dictionary.

Because I'm sure the entire god damn mission rests solely upon Tali, right?

Like I said, you don't need to agree with my opinion. You also don't need to be an ass about it.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 24 mars 2010 - 06:11 .

[Grilled Trout]

I have to share my agreement with a lot of you who said that most of the time, the conversation options play out to a point where the best outcomes are made by using the paragon/renegade option on the left side of the dialogue tree. And sometimes, the actual lines that are being said don't seem to differ so much from the non-paragon/renegade ones.



In Tali's trial, my focus was to earn Tali's loyalty and do whatever it is best to help her out in that situation. But the very first time I played Mass Effect 2, I really didn't know what was best for her among the non-paragon/renegade options. I wasn't sure what inciting the crowd would bring about, and I was torn between proving my point that Tali was innocent through submitting the evidence or granting her wish that her father would never be branded a traitor even if it means Tali should be exiled forever from the Migrant Fleet.



The renegade and paragon options work well on some parts, but on parts like this, it just seems like a cop out. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been best just to take this whole concept out entirely and make us make the hard choices with consequences that really hit hard.

[Cyberfrog81]

I did get her exiled, if not entirely by choice. My "neutral" character couldn't paragon or renegade his way out of it, rallying the crowd also wasn't an option (but try it if you can, it's pretty interesting), and clearly Tali didn't want that evidence presented. She preferred exile, so that's what she got.



I can't say I like that Xen message though, so maybe one of my characters should have figured, "screw Tali's loyalty, there are larger issues at stake".

[Minaach]

WarChicken78 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

In my opinion, there should be no
option to clear Tali without presenting the evidence.
Make a hard
choice. Either she gets exiled, or you present the evidence that clears
her. No rallying the crowd, no yelling at the Admiralty, no easy way
out.

It would be interesting to see how that'd work out.

You mean exiled and loyal or not exiled and unloyal?
Interesting... that would be a hard choice. But would it make sense - her getting loyal if you ride her into exile?

I would do more then ride her into exile if you know what I mean....
In all seriousness, I try to keep her loyal and not exiled. That way you can appeal to the quarians in ME3...probably. It's better for diplomatic ties.

[Gabey5]

sure.. now she has no choice and can never leave me... ever again...Mwhahahahaa

[Spectre_907]

Grilled Trout wrote...

Do I dare ask.... did anyone let Tali get exiled?  If you don't provide the evidence and don't make an effort to make that alluring speech, you let Tali get exiled but still earn her loyalty.  I wonder how this will affect the story in Mass Effect 3, but I hope that it carries over some consequences.

I can't bring myself to let this happen just yet, but for the sake of variety of story progression, I am thinking about letting this happen in my next run.

I fear the burning hatred and grand cause for revenge from Tali fans...

My guess is that by exonerating Tali without the evidence, you create a political loophole that you might be able exploit when the new Admiral is selected. We know that Rael'Zorah's death disrupts the power balance and causes Han'Garrel and Daro'Xen to loose support for the war against the geth. Some quarians (which I presume is a significant portion of the Conclave) will suggest Tali to be a candidate for the Admiralty which would allow you, as her new recognised ship's captain, to have some influence in the decision. Depending on whether you want war against the geth or peace, Tali will agree with your decision.

If Tali is exiled, than any say in the matter is lost but it might still go in your favor if you want the Migrant fleets as allies against the Reapers as Daro'Xen states that Rael's death would ultimately favor Zaal'Koris' plans for peace. Tali's exile may also serve as a political weapon for Zaal'Koris that: any attempts at war with the will result in being tried for treason. However, given her rediscovery of his research, she might play the political game to put an affiliate on the Admiralty in order to further her own agenda. The Migrant Fleet may still ally with you against the Reapers but long term implications may favor another war against the geth.

My playthroughs initially had Tali exonerated with the speech option but I may do a playthrough where she is exiled to see what happens. Her exile may impact her relationship with Shepard if Shepard romances Tali. Which is something my own Shepard did.

[DaVanguard]

I had gotten her exiled on my renegade

[Sago_mulch]

Grilled Trout wrote...

Do I dare ask.... did anyone let Tali get exiled?  If you don't provide the evidence and don't make an effort to make that alluring speech, you let Tali get exiled but still earn her loyalty.  I wonder how this will affect the story in Mass Effect 3, but I hope that it carries over some consequences.

I can't bring myself to let this happen just yet, but for the sake of variety of story progression, I am thinking about letting this happen in my next run.

I fear the burning hatred and grand cause for revenge from Tali fans...

I DID SOMETHING BETTER.

I REVEALED THAT HER FATHER WAS RUTHLESS, GENOCIDAL QURIAN FUHRER.

SHE WAS FULLY EMBARASSED AT THE TRIAL
AS HER FATHERS NAME WAS NOW SMEARED DUE TO MISADVENTURES OF COMMANDER SHEPARD.

[Sago_mulch]

Mukora wrote...

Sago_mulch wrote...
I DID SOMETHING BETTER.

I REVEALED THAT HER FATHER WAS RUTHLESS, GENOCIDAL QURIAN FUHRER.

SHE WAS FULLY EMBARASSED AT THE TRIAL
AS HER FATHERS NAME WAS NOW SMEARED DUE TO MISADVENTURES OF COMMANDER SHEPARD.

Guess what? You basically sent the entire quarian race to genocide. Nice job breaking it, hero.

NOW WE CAN HAVE THE QUARIAN VERSION OF DR.STRANGELOVE.

''MEIN ADMIRAL....I CAN WALK!''

[Dokarqt]

Her annoying "nails-on-chalkboard" voice justifies being mean!



Nah, but I never have. Dont see the point if you can pass the conversation checks.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Played through it three times -



first run through - held evidence, did not get exiled.

second run through - presented evidence, doomed her father

third run through - didn't present evidence, got her exiled

[megatron999]

on my first playthrough I decided against handling the evidence over as Tali doesn't want me to. Does it really make a difference in the end? She goes with you anyway.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

megatron999 wrote...

on my first playthrough I decided against handling the evidence over as Tali doesn't want me to. Does it really make a difference in the end? She goes with you anyway.

Most people wonder what the difference will be in ME3 basically.

[Internet Kraken]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

megatron999 wrote...



on my first playthrough I decided against handling the evidence over as Tali doesn't want me to. Does it really make a difference in the end? She goes with you anyway.

Most people wonder what the difference will be in ME3 basically.

Actually after thinking about this I don't think it's going to make a difference regardless of what you do. If you hand over the evidence, the Quarians split with some favoring peace and some favoring war. It's never said which side is stronger, so presumably that will depend on if you supported or opposed war. If you hide the evidence, nothing happens. But then Xen is allowed to continue her research, which will probably be exposed in Mass Effect 3, leading to the Quarians splitting just like in the first scenario. And again, the stronger side depends on what you said during the trial.



So as much as I hate to say it, I bet this decision won;t be as big as I'm hoping. Even getting Tali exiled won't have a lasting effect. She'll probably just be allowed back onto the fleet after a major political change, whether that be making peace or reclaiming the home world.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Tali didn't seem too awfully broken up about it on my "got her exiled" playthrough. In fact, she seems a bit more eager to embrace Shepard more fully.

She was reprimanded by most of the quarians and got really depressed on my "show the evidence" playthrough. I felt bad.

[Redcelerity]

first time i played i rallied the crowd and i just felt epic when shepard showed those admirals who's boss, and since i pursued a romance with tali, i felt that (amasing how this game, can get a person who always take the most assholish ending go soft. xD) i had to save her from the false charges. <_<:innocent:

Modifié par Redcelerity, 09 juin 2010 - 10:22 .

[MadCat221]

Letting Tali get exiled just seems like a way to get her more dependent on you. It seems... wrong to me.

[shoulderfish]

I did, once. I had saved Veetor and Kal'Reegar, but didn't talk to them beforehand so I wasn't able to rally the crowd. I didn't have enough paragon/renegade points at the time, either.

Shala Ra'an's (sp?) expression was kind of funny, though -- once I said I had no evidence, she looked around for a second, like, "Oh, uh...okay, well...Tali, you're exiled."