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[uanime5]

This a walkthrough where you choose all the choices that gets the worst ending for everyone except the player. This is for people who want to take the most evil route possible. Any tips and advice would be helpful.

General advice: always demand rewards; never give anyone anything unless you have to in order to get experience, money, or items in return; steal everything; kill everyone unless they pay you not to; and only be nice if you’re tricking people into giving you quests or items.

Bold text means this is the name of the quest.


Origins

Most of the things you do here don't have much effect on the game.

City Elf: let Vaughan keep the elf women. Though you can’t keep the bribe if he’s alive when you
visit the Arl of Denerim’s dungeons (much later in the game) you can make him give you a key for his lockbox which contains 40 sovereigns.

Tell the guards Soris was involved so he gets sent to prison.

Dalish Elf: kill the 3 humans.

Dwarf Commoner: kill Oskias.

Dwarf Noble: side with the Shaperate talking with the noble and demand a reward.

Have the merchant kill the messenger who delivered the dagger.

Side with Lord Dace in exchange for money, sell his note for 100 sovereigns for 25 sovereigns (you can't collect the 100 sovereigns).

Sell everything you don't need before going to the Deep Roads. After the Deep Roads all your possessions will be confiscated but you keep your money.

Kill Trian and lie to Harrowmont to get the Fine Dwarvern Blade.

Magi: lie to Irvin and say the 'Blackened Heartwood Staff' is yours so you can keep it.

Human Noble: no evil choices.


Joining the Grey Wardens

The Mabari Hound: help and demand a reward. The Dog is the only companion that won’t leave you no matter what you do.

 The Hungry Deserter: ask why he’s in the cage, kill him and steal the key, loot the chest. If you have the ‘Return to Ostagar’ DLC delay looting the chest until after returning to Ostagar for a better staff.

Intimidate Pick the Elven Messenger to get Ser Garlen's Sword. If your intimidate skill isn't high enough you can kill him and take the sword.

Find Rigby’s lockbox in the Korcari Wilds and open it.


Lothering

Tell people by Doomsayer that his is right and convince them to give you their money.

Lothering is destroyed no matter what you do after you complete the Broken Circle, Arl of Redcliffe, Paragon of Her Kind, or Nature of the Beast quests.
 

Arl of Redcliffe

Entering Redcliffe and leaving without completing the Village Under Siege quest will result in the village being destroyed (easy and evil) but taking part and looting the dead gives you their equipment and experience, so ‘help’
them to help yourself.

The Missing Child: got to Kaitlyn’s house, convince Bevin (hiding in the cupboard) to give you the key to the chest, get ‘The Green Blade’, return Bevin to Kaitlyn, don’t give her any money for the sword.

Village Under Siege: kill Owen, take ‘bundle of equipment’; intimidate Berwick and Dwyn so they'll fight the undead; intimidate Lloyd and threaten to kill him so he gives you his tavern, the militia free beer, and will fight the undead; have Bella give you Lloyd’s stock.

The Attack at Nightfall: let everyone die, loot their dead bodies (area affect spells and friendly fire make this much easier).
 
Redcliffe Castle: if you're a mage leave Jowan alive, sacrifice Isolde, make a deal with the Desire Demon so she temporarily leaves Connor, convince Teagan to execute Jowan.

If you're not a mage you can't enter the Fade and make a deal with the Desire Demon so kill Jowan, fight Connor, and make Isolde kill him.


Broken Circle

Tell Wynn you don’t need her (she’s attack you sooner or later because you’re so evil).

Kill Blood Mage and Godwin.

Kill Desire Demon and the Bewitched Templar (they’re not evil).

Agree with Cullen to kill the all mages. Kill them all during the fight with Uldred.


Nature of the Beast

Elora's Halla: examine Halla and lie, kill the Halla.

Cammen's Lament: seduce Gheyna, tell Cammen about this, get the ‘The Tale of Iloren’ from Cammen. If you talk to Layana after doing this she will convince Varathorn to stop trading with you.
 
Wounded in the Forest loot Deygan, take him back to the camp, give him back his bone figure in exchange for a sapphire.

Lost to the Curse: trade the scarf to the Mad Hermit, force Danyla to give you a reward.

Kill the Grand Oak.

Steal from the Mad Hermit and kill him.

The Warden's Choices: siding with the Werewolves and killing the elves is very evil but killing the Werewolves and double  crossing Zathrian gives you more experience and equipment plus you can still buy things from the elves. Your choice.


The Urn of Sacred Ashes

Kill the guard in Haven.

Go to the back room of the village’s store, kill the store keeper and villagers.

Side with Kolgrim, defile the ashes of Andraste, get Reaver specialisation, kill Kolgrim, use Kolgrim's Horn to summon the High Dragon, kill the High Dragon.

Let Genitivi live, go to his house in Denerim and get a Master Dweomer Rune. Since you defiled the ashes he later kills himself so there’s no point in killing him yourself.


A Paragon of Her Kind

Kill Loghain’s emissary.

Due to a game breaking bug known as the 'Orzammar glitch' do not try to complete both the quests ‘A Prince's Favor: The First Task’ and ‘A Lord's Trust: The First Task’. Only do what the guide tell you to.

‘A Lord's Trust: The First Task’: help Baizyl and demand a reward (15 sovereigns). DO NOT FIGHT IN THE PROVING GROUNDS until you've completed ‘A Prince's Favor: The First Task’. Once you've gotten the ‘A Prince's Favor: The Second Task’ quest you can fight in the proving grounds without making it impossible to complete Dragon Age Origins.

‘A Prince's Favor: The First Task’: show the letters to Lord Helmi, Lady Dace, and Lord Dace. Ask Lord Dace for a discount, rather than supporting Bhelen.

After getting the ‘A Prince's Favor: The Second Task’ go to Harrowmont's Estate and convince Dulin Forender you want to undermine Bhelen. You'll then get the 'Shifting Allegiances' quest. Go to Dust Town, kill Jarvia, get the evidence, go to Harrowmount and betray Bhelen, then get a reward from Bhelen.

You’re siding with Harrowmount because he cuts ties with the surface, which weakens Human-Dwarf relationships. Bhelen strengthens them, which leaders to a better Human-Dwarf relationship. Also if you're a noble dwarf Bhelen betrays you (origin story) while Harrowmount may make you his heir if you support him.

If you want to support Bhelen don't go to Dulin Forender or betray Bhelen.
 
The Chant in the Deeps: help Brother Burkel preach. In the epilogue it will state this caused his death and the Chantry is unhappy about this.

An Unlikely Scholar: help Dagna join the Circle of Mages (only works if you sided with the mages). This annoys the Chantry and they plan an exalted march against the dwarves if you haven’t also helped Brother Burkel. Though I recommended siding with the templars I included this information for completeness.

A Mother's Hope: search for Ruck (if you don't Filda won't give you Ruck's shield), either kill him or tell him you're going to tell his mother where he is (if you kill him you can't buy any of his items), tell Filda what her son has become.

Thief in the House of Learning: sell the stolen book to Jertrin (Milldrate doesn't give you a reward).

Zerlinda's Woe: tell Zerlinda to leave her child in the Deep Roads and go home.

Asunder: free the Fade Beast (it rewards you very well).

Anvil of the Void: side with Branka and keep the anvil (the golem army is very useful).
 

Landsmeet

Unrest in the Alienage: aggravate the healers and guards outside the hospice (try to get as many bystanders killed as possible); either intimidate Caladrius so he gives you his profits and the documents but leaves with the slaves, or fight him and when he surrenders allow him to sacrifice the elves to give you a +1 constitution bonus.

Convince Anora to marry you so you can become king (human male noble only), let Loghain live, don’t spare Alistair.

Convince Alistair to become king and to marry you so you can become queen (human female noble only), kill Loghain, imprison Anora.

Convince Alistair become king so you can become his lover (Alistair must be hardened, and the Warden must be female), kill Loghain, imprison Anora.

If you can’t become king / queen I’d recommend sparing Loghain, and either sparing Alistair so he becomes a drunk or let him be executed. This will force Anora to rule alone.

Winning the Landsmeet gives you an attribute bonus, so win by any means.


The Battle of Denerim

Your army are meat shields, don’t be afraid to sacrifice them to make the battle easier for you.

If Alistair sacrifices himself a female character cannot become the Queen or his lover.

Don’t sacrifice your own life (this isn’t evil). Sacrifice Alistair or Loghain, or accept Morrigan’s offer.


Companions

Do their quests as they will give you experience and items.
 
The Stone Prisoner: let the demon ‘kitty’ possess the little girl.


If you don't want any companions you should:

Alistair: spare Loghain during the Landsmeet or have him sacrifice himself to
defeat the Archedemon.

Dog: don't help heal him in the Ostagar camp.

Leilana: leave her in Lothering (if you don't go into the Inn you won't meet Leilana).

Logain: kill him during the Landsmeet or have him sacrifice himself to defeat the Archedemon.

Morrigan: unknown how to avoid getting her.

Oghren: unknown how to avoid getting him.

Shale: do not activate her.

Sten: leave him in Lothering.

Wynne: say you don't want to take her with you.

Zevran: kill him when he tries to assassinate you.


Your companions will turn on you or leave if you do the following:

Alistair: spare Loghain during the Landsmeet.

Dog: will never betray you.

Leilana: will turn on you if you defile the Ashes of Andraste (unless you've hardened her).

Logain: will never betray you.

Morrigan: will leave if you refuse to take part in 'Morrigan's Ritual'. You can also tell her you want her to leave.

Oghren: tell him you want him to leave.

Shale: tell her you want her to leave.

Sten: tell him you want him to leave.

Wynne: will turn on you if you agree with Cullen to kill the mages or defile the Ashes of Andraste.

Zevran: if you don't have a high enough influence he will betray you when Taliesin appears.
 

Side Quests

Dead Drops: do not defuse the ‘payments’ (Interested Parties quest).

Interested Parties: support K, kill D. K bombed people, D didn’t so K seems more evil.
 
A Change in Leadership: kill Raelnor and make the Blackstone Irregulars more evil.

Modifié par uanime5, 11 avril 2010 - 01:30 .

[Caldarin V]

Dalish Elf evilness: Kill the humans right off the bat?

[uanime5]

As long as you kill the humans you're evil.

I haven't played all the origins so some parts are incomplete. I'll update the first post.

Modifié par uanime5, 23 mars 2010 - 11:28 .

[FigureThree]

From what I recall, you can only marry Alistair if you're a human noble, regardless of if he's hardened or not. You can be his mistress otherwise if he's hardened, but only the noble origin can get you to be queen.

[uanime5]

Okay I'll modify it so that it just says you become his lover. I wasn't sure if you could marry him if you imprisoned Anora and had hardened him.

[Shador5529]

Going by what you said here:

[quote]

Arl of Redcliffe

Entering Redcliffe and leaving without completing the Village Under Siege quest will result in the village being destroyed (easy and evil) but taking part and looting the dead gives you their equipment and experience, so ‘help’
them to help yourself. 

[/quote]

I am wondering about this:

[/quote] 

Broken Circle

*snip*

Agree with Cullen to kill the all mages. Kill them all during the fight with Uldred.

[/quote]

While such certainly does have the potental for killing innocents, it would not really be the same calculating evil displayed at Redcliffe.  This decision smacks more of psycho evil.  The reason is that the mages are far more powerful and better to have at the end than templars.  Would not a truely evil character risk letting abominations escape to get a better army?

[uanime5]

I recommended staying because if you run away from Redcliffe everyone dies but it you stay and kill the soldiers you get their equipment (worth 10-15 sovereigns each) and the experience from fighting the undead. So you gain more from fighting in the battle than ignoring it.



Whether to support the mages or templars is more complex. Killing the mages and increasing the control over the new generation of mages by the templars is more evil than helping the mages and letting them be free. Though they may be better fighters in the final battle I don't feel that making a battle easier for you is worth helping people.



Had the epilogue stated that supporting the mages and granting them more freedom lead to an increase in the number of Apostates and magic being misused I would agree that supporting the mages would be better for evil in the long term. But the epilogue states that the tower is either cleansed or rebuilt and it doesn't mention any abominations escaping so I feel that letting the mages live seems to be the least evil of the two options.

[Louis deGuerre]

The Hungry Deserter: ask why he’s in the cage, kill him and steal the key, loot the chest. If you have the ‘Return to Ostagar’ DLC loot the chest after returning to Ostagar.



-- You can open the chest either when you return from the wilds or in the battle itself. You dont'need the DLC.



Tell Wynn you don’t need her (she’s attack you sooner or later because you’re so evil).



-- Best way is to bring Morrigan and she and Wynne will immediately fight to the death.



Many small ones are missing here, but I'd like to add one. Tell the mother in Orzammer that her missing son is not dead but a drooling tainted dwarf. That one always struck me as pretty evil.

[Bartlebyfinch]

It doesn't really affect the game outcome, but if you're really going for an evil game, you need to spend some time screwing with that little boy in Lothering.



"Hey kid! I saw your mom! She's over there!"

"Hey kid! No... she's over on the OTHER side of town! Hurry before she abandons you again!"



Also, you should be sure to accept the Tevinter slaver's offer to "augment" your power with the life force of the elves.





The thing that I most prided myself on in my evil playthrough though was the fact that I managed to kill or drive away every single member of my party. I really WAS the most psychotic, unlikeable, and aimlessly mean S.O.B. in the world. Also, I prefer to sleep with as many group members as possible and dump them prior to killing them. The romances, though, are completely optional. Truth be told, I only ever mess with Zevran and Morrigan (if you're male) since Allister and Leilana require too much wooing.



1. Refuse the quest to heal dog. Let the stupid mutt die. A "kick the dog" moment, if you will.



2. Leave Sten in the cage to rot.



3. Take Leilana with you at Lothering (you have to), but don't ever talk to her at camp. You want her to stay religious (so don't harden her) so that she is properly outraged when you defile Andraste's ashes.



4. Either kill Zevran when you first meet him, or recruit him, sleep with him, dump him, and never speak to him again.



5. Kill Wynne along with everyone else at the circle tower when you tell all of them that you're a blood mage. If you're not a blood mage, I think you can still set everyone off by taking Morrigan and making a pro-apostate statement in conversation. In any case, if you don't kill Wynne here, you can do it later if you keep her approval down.



6. Defile Andraste's Ashes. Leilana freaks out when you do this (if she's still un-hardened), and you get to kill her. You can take out Wynne here as well if you didn't kill her back at the circle tower.



7. Recruit Oghren (you have too). After you finish up at Orzammar though, just treat him like crap and tell him to take a hike. Can't actually kill him (probably why he was the only party member that made it to Awakenings).



8. During the Landsmeet, you will run into the Crows ambush if you didn't kill Zevran earlier. He will definitely betray you here, so you can take him out.



9. Make Anora queen at the Landsmeet, recruit Loghain and execute Allister. If you DO want to put up with romancing him, I imagine it would be priceless to do this to him while he's in love with you.



10. Refuse Morrigan's "demon baby" deal. Yeah, I know it's kind of iffy for an evil character to turn this down, but your goal here is to alienate everyone, remember? In any case, you COULD rationalize it by not wanting Morrigan's power to rival your own (this works best if you are playing a mage). Anyway... it isn't like YOU are going to die from killing the Archdemon. Morrigan hits the road.



11. Loghain takes the fall in the final fight... and the cheese stands alone.



Realism gets strained in a few places, and a lot of the fights are somewhat harder (as you can imagine), but since you can play the whole game solo with just about any class, it's still doable. The upside is that you don't need much money since you're only shopping for one.



Actually, the biggest problem I had with this playthough was with how completely awful it made me feel. I guess it's a credit to the programmers that a video game can make you feel so guilty that you need to take breaks. Congrats.



To be fair though, there still wasn't anything in DA that reached the heights of evil you could attain in KoTOR. I've never seen anything in any video game ever that tore out my guts like the scene with Mission & Zaalbar.

[Raiil]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

The Hungry Deserter: ask why he’s in the cage, kill him and steal the key, loot the chest. If you have the ‘Return to Ostagar’ DLC loot the chest after returning to Ostagar.

-- You can open the chest either when you return from the wilds or in the battle itself. You dont'need the DLC.

Yeah, but if you're playing as a mage or want one of your mages to get their hands on a better staff right off the bat, you'll want to go back to Ostagar. The magic staff turns into a corrupt magister's staff- pretty powerful and free to boot, particularly at lower levels when you're trying to save cash.

[uanime5]

Louis deGuerre wrote...

The Hungry Deserter: ask why he’s in the cage, kill him and steal the key, loot the chest. If you have the ‘Return to Ostagar’ DLC loot the chest after returning to Ostagar.

-- You can open the chest either when you return from the wilds or in the battle itself. You dont'need the DLC.

I meant that it you have the DLC you should loot the chest after returning because you'll get more stuff.

Tell Wynn you don’t need her (she’s attack you sooner or later because you’re so evil).

-- Best way is to bring Morrigan and she and Wynne will immediately fight to the death.

True, Wynne hates Apostates.

Many small ones are missing here, but I'd like to add one. Tell the mother in Orzammer that her missing son is not dead but a drooling tainted dwarf. That one always struck me as pretty evil.

I haven't done all the quests so I don't know every evil option. I'll add it to the list.

Bartlebyfinch wrote...

It doesn't really affect the game outcome, but if you're really going for an evil game, you need to spend some time screwing with that little boy in Lothering.

"Hey kid! I saw your mom! She's over there!"
"Hey kid! No... she's over on the OTHER side of town! Hurry before she abandons you again!"

Also, you should be sure to accept the Tevinter slaver's offer to "augment" your power with the life force of the elves.

Thanks for the slaver quest, I'll add it to the list. If you accept the blood ritual do you still get to keep the profits or do you only get the documents and the consitution boost?

Probably won't add the companion part because it you follow this guild they'll all eventually turn on you (except the dog who's a perfect slave and meat shield).

Modifié par uanime5, 25 mars 2010 - 08:50 .

[rataoo]

You can also force Lloyd to make you the owner of his tavern (in exchange for not killing him). You can still make him fight and make him give the militia free ale.

[uanime5]

Updated the guide to avoid the Orzammar glitch.

[Abyss_666]

in ostagar if your persuation skill isn't high enough you can kill the elven messenger after intimitading him to give you the sword

[Mlai00]

I never tried the option, but I believe you can fight and kill Shale right after you activate her in Honnleath.
Oh, and don't fight Flemeth.  Accept her deal and lie to Morrigan, and become all buddy-buddy (or lover) with her.  C'mon, that's like the most evil thing you can do to her in the game.

Modifié par Mlai00, 31 mars 2010 - 01:07 .

[nikki191]

my personal fave, the wounded soldier you find when you enter the kokari wilds, tell alistair "we dont have time" and the select "see i told you we didnt have time" slit his throat..

the single most truely evil thing you can do in the game in my opinion is the city elf origin, agree to walk away leave the girls to be raped in exchange for money

i dont see how siding with lord dace for money is evil.

i think siding with the doomsayer is bugged, i had alistar and lelianna in my party and neither of them made a peep about me praying on the bystanders and ripping them off

Modifié par nikki191, 31 mars 2010 - 01:27 .

[RavenousBear]

uanime5 wrote...







A Paragon of Her Kind

Kill Loghain’s emissary.

Due to a game breaking bug known as the 'Orzammar glitch' do not try to complete both the quests ‘A Prince's Favor: The First Task’ and ‘A Lord's Trust: The First Task’. Only do what the guide tell you to.

‘A Lord's Trust: The First Task’: help Baizyl and demand a reward (15 sovereigns). DO NOT FIGHT IN THE PROVING GROUNDS until you've completed ‘A Prince's Favor: The First Task’. Once you've gotten the ‘A Prince's Favor: The Second Task’ quest you can fight in the proving grounds without making it impossible to complete Dragon Age Origins.

‘A Prince's Favor: The First Task’: show the letters to Lord Helmi, Lady Dace, and Lord Dace. Ask Lord Dace for a discount, rather than supporting Bhelen.

After getting the ‘A Prince's Favor: The Second Task’ go to Harrowmont's Estate and convince Dulin Forender you want to undermine Bhelen. You'll then get the 'Shifting Allegiances' quest. Go to Dust Town, kill Jarvia, get the evidence, go to Harrowmount and betray Bhelen, then get a reward from Bhelen.

You’re siding with Harrowmount because he cuts ties with the surface, which weakens Human-Dwarf relationships. Bhelen strengthens them, which leaders to a better Human-Dwarf relationship. Also if you're a noble dwarf Bhelen betrays you (origin story) while Harrowmount may make you his heir if you support him.
 
The Chant in the Deeps: help Brother Burkel preach. In the epilogue it will state this caused his death and the Chantry is unhappy about this.

An Unlikely Scholar: help Dagna join the Circle of Mages (only works if you sided with the mages). This annoys the Chantry and they plan an exalted march against the dwarves if you haven’t also helped Brother Burkel. Though I recommended siding with the templars I included this information for completeness.

A Mother's Hope: search for Ruck (if you don't Filda won't give you Ruck's shield), either kill him or tell him you're going to tell his mother where he is (if you kill him you can't buy any of his items), tell Filda what her son has become.

Thief in the House of Learning: sell the stolen book to Jertrin (Milldrate doesn't give you a reward).

Zerlinda's Woe: tell Zerlinda to leave her child in the Deep Roads and go home.

Asunder: free the Fade Beast (it rewards you very well).

Anvil of the Void: side with Branka and keep the anvil (golem army is very useful).

 


Actually for this quest, I think Bhelen would be the choice for more "evil" if you are roleplaying your character and ignoring the epilogue (which may mean little in DAO2 as some of the epilogues do not transfer in Awakening). Vartag is an ***hole who treats your character like dirt and asks you to show forged papers to two nobles in order to see Bhelen. You become a messenger boy which is no fun in my opinion

When you do Jarvia's quest, Bhelen asks you to place papers "proving" that Harrowmont's cousin is involved in lyrium smuggling. In the end of A Paragon of Her Kind, Bhelen executes Harrowmont who will accept Bhelen as king when you have made your decision. Then in the epilogue Bhelen pretty much becomes a despot who rules with an iron fist while doing some good things (his reasons probably for himself and power) and some bad things like disbanding the assembly.

Compared to Bhelen's line of quests, Harrowmont's seems less dirty and more honorable, especially the provings. In the end however, I doubt it will make a difference who you choose as king because it is likely both Bhelen & Harrowmont will die (Harrowmont is confirmed dead as King without the Anvil, there is innuendo in Bhelen's epilogue with several failed assassination attempts at his life thus disbanding the assembly, which will only make his enemies more determined to skin him alive).

Modifié par Caak7i, 31 mars 2010 - 03:41 .

[Sneelonz]

You can tell Morrigan to leave also.

[uanime5]

Caak7i wrote...
Actually for this quest, I think Bhelen would be the choice for more "evil" if you are roleplaying your character and ignoring the epilogue (which may mean little in DAO2 as some of the epilogues do not transfer in Awakening). Vartag is an ***hole who treats your character like dirt and asks you to show forged papers to two nobles in order to see Bhelen. You become a messenger boy which is no fun in my opinion

When you do Jarvia's quest, Bhelen asks you to place papers "proving" that Harrowmont's cousin is involved in lyrium smuggling. In the end of A Paragon of Her Kind, Bhelen executes Harrowmont who will accept Bhelen as king when you have made your decision. Then in the epilogue Bhelen pretty much becomes a despot who rules with an iron fist while doing some good things (his reasons probably for himself and power) and some bad things like disbanding the assembly.

Compared to Bhelen's line of quests, Harrowmont's seems less dirty and more honorable, especially the provings. In the end however, I doubt it will make a difference who you choose as king because it is likely both Bhelen & Harrowmont will die (Harrowmont is confirmed dead as King without the Anvil, there is innuendo in Bhelen's epilogue with several failed assassination attempts at his life thus disbanding the assembly, which will only make his enemies more determined to skin him alive).

While I agree that Bhelen is the more evil of the two the purpose of this guide is to make the world worse for everyone other than the Warden, rather than help anyone who's evil. As Harrowmont weakens the Human-Dwarf relationships and is killed for being weak I felt that he would create a worse outcome that Bhelen who is a improves Human-Dwarf relationships, though he does this as a dictator.

Were the papers forged? I though they were evidence that Harrowmont had promised to give the same region to two Dwarves in exchange for their support (Lord Helmi comments that Harrowmont hasn't bought their vote). I didn't take them to the Shaperate so I'm not sure whether they were real or not.

Bhelen only asks you to plant evidence if you originally side with Harrowmont, then convince Vartag you want to betray Harrowmont. If you completed the first task he just asks you to kill Jarvia.

Bhelen also blackmails Harrowmont's fighters so they won't fight in the Proving Grounds (which is why Harrowmont wants you to fight).

What does the Awakening epilogue say that is different from the current epilogue, other than that Darkspawn can either retreat into the Deep Roads or retreat further back if the Architect is alive.

[RavenousBear]

uanime5 wrote...

Caak7i wrote...
Actually for this quest, I think Bhelen would be the choice for more "evil" if you are roleplaying your character and ignoring the epilogue (which may mean little in DAO2 as some of the epilogues do not transfer in Awakening). Vartag is an ***hole who treats your character like dirt and asks you to show forged papers to two nobles in order to see Bhelen. You become a messenger boy which is no fun in my opinion

When you do Jarvia's quest, Bhelen asks you to place papers "proving" that Harrowmont's cousin is involved in lyrium smuggling. In the end of A Paragon of Her Kind, Bhelen executes Harrowmont who will accept Bhelen as king when you have made your decision. Then in the epilogue Bhelen pretty much becomes a despot who rules with an iron fist while doing some good things (his reasons probably for himself and power) and some bad things like disbanding the assembly.

Compared to Bhelen's line of quests, Harrowmont's seems less dirty and more honorable, especially the provings. In the end however, I doubt it will make a difference who you choose as king because it is likely both Bhelen & Harrowmont will die (Harrowmont is confirmed dead as King without the Anvil, there is innuendo in Bhelen's epilogue with several failed assassination attempts at his life thus disbanding the assembly, which will only make his enemies more determined to skin him alive).

While I agree that Bhelen is the more evil of the two the purpose of this guide is to make the world worse for everyone other than the Warden, rather than help anyone who's evil. As Harrowmont weakens the Human-Dwarf relationships and is killed for being weak I felt that he would create a worse outcome that Bhelen who is a improves Human-Dwarf relationships, though he does this as a dictator.

Were the papers forged? I though they were evidence that Harrowmont had promised to give the same region to two Dwarves in exchange for their support (Lord Helmi comments that Harrowmont hasn't bought their vote). I didn't take them to the Shaperate so I'm not sure whether they were real or not.

Bhelen only asks you to plant evidence if you originally side with Harrowmont, then convince Vartag you want to betray Harrowmont. If you completed the first task he just asks you to kill Jarvia.

Bhelen also blackmails Harrowmont's fighters so they won't fight in the Proving Grounds (which is why Harrowmont wants you to fight).

What does the Awakening epilogue say that is different from the current epilogue, other than that Darkspawn can either retreat into the Deep Roads or retreat further back if the Architect is alive.

I agree that Harrowmont is not the best choice in regards to being an effective ruler, we have no idea who will take the reigns after his death. It could be anyone, and with Bhelen's revolutionaries still active and whom probably poisoned Harrowmont, it could be possible that the dwarves will receive the social revolution that results when siding with Bhelen. In Bhelen's dialogue, he had to dissolve the assembly due to numerous assassination attempts and I highly doubt his enemies are going to call it quits after destroying their voice in the government.

To me, it is a coin toss on whom to choose; for my DC it was easily Bhelen due to family; for CE, it is going to be Harrowmont just because the proving is more fun and did not feel like taking orders from Vartag. BW did a nice job making this quest a gray area in the game.

About the papers:

If you take the papers to the Shaperate, he will tell you that the terms in the deals were changed from the original that was approved by the Shaperate (which I believe means the original terms were OKed by the Shaperate). He asks you where you received these copies, if you say Vartag did, he will tell you he is going to report this violation and punish the Gavorn family though nothing actually happens.

When you return to Vartag and tell him the papers were modified, he tries to weasel his way out from telling any more information. Pass a persuade check and he will say he did forge the papers and bribed one of the Shaperate's employees' to make it look clean; he then goes on a rant about showing loyalities.

I have not really started Awakening yet as I have heard there are major bugs that affect the game like something in the Silverite mines that supposely strips you of your equipment for good and some pieces of armor not appearing as drop loot, etc.

[BrutalWolfs]

How could you ;(



lol

[Ken555]

Kitty find you distracting.

[chefbobby203]

I feel like not all of those things are really evil. Maybe that means I have a problem...

[Rithmerdui]

Evil character always gain more profit than a good character  would, and i like being good, but being evil is more tempting(Riches, titles and many more benefits).

About Harrowmont..
He is more like a evil king if the Anvil is preserved because he let Branka manipulate him(He heed the demands of a Paragon), also that she helped him destroy the last of Bhelen's rebels(So Harrowmont never dies of poison). Branka requests that they should send out Dwarven forces to kidnap Elves and  humans to be turnt to golems. This isnt taken well for Ferelden's inhabitants, results in a short war of Ferelden. Harrowmont then have the gates closed after the events of the war, making Orzammar more isolated than ever before. Branka still requested that the raids on the surface would continue.

I like the ideas you got about accepting deals with bad people, and killing people in dialogue. (Urn of Sacred ashes etc)

Urn of Sacred ashes seems to have very great role in the game, and there is many choices which could be made..
Below is some tips on being evil at Urn of sacred ashes.
But certain conditions has to be met.
Kolgrim, Brother Genitivi, High Dragon. are important characters for the different outcomes.
Either the ashes would be defiled and the cult should keep the temple, or the ashes lost or the temple the ashes are stored in destroyed(May result in the ashes destruction aswell) by the High Dragon.

Modifié par Nemeriss, 08 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[Trollhawke]

More Dalish elf evilness:
-You have to speak to a certain elf in order to start Tamlen's funeral, and he will ask you to tell the story of heritage. You can be a douche here and agree to tell it, but chose the comedy options.

Common Dwarf:
-Lie about how many Lyrium crystals Oksias has.
-Drug the Champion. You get bonus EXP for not doing it, but you have to act goody-goody to allow this option.

Lothering:
-The most evil way of getting the key is to threaten the head cleric there.

Companions:
-If you get Alistar down to -100 or so, he will rag at you. Be a douche, as he won't leave until landsmeet.