27 réponses à ce sujet

[SofaKingLiveBXNY]

I was just on here thinking about the game and how there are so many unanswered questions... I like the game alot but I hate the fact that we still don't have a good idea of whats going on in the ME universe other than reapers are bad.
One thing(one of many) I cant understand tho.... Is why the collectors are focused on Shepard?

At the beginning they kill him... Point blank. Im not sure it was on purpose(most likely) or by coincidence, the normandy was investigating and maybe they just blew up any ship they came across..but it seems to me that the normandy was purposely targeted and destroyed...but either way Ship gets blown up and Shep dies, the rest of the crew lives and goes on with thier life...They destoryed a reaper too but i guess they werent that important so they were allowed to live.
But why were the collectors able to find the normandy if it wasnt a trap? If it was who set it up? The council? Cereberus? Were the collectors acting on thier own or was it harbinger even then?
If it was a coincidence than that, sucks but.........

But then in the comic, the one wit liara...It seems that the collectors/harbinger were already aware of who Shepard was before his death and subsequently wanted his body for whatever reason...but why didnt they just abduct the original normandy crew and shepard when they killed him if  they wanted him? Why blow him up? and why not track down the escaped pods or in this case recover the body from the crash site before anyone else did?
Harbinger clearly has interest and a use for Shepard...why just kill him at first to turn around and PAY the shadow broker to find his body? That doesnt makes sense....

And then the whole IFF thing.......why abduct about 20 humans and not even the strongest ones? I mean if i can abduct a colony of 1000 humans why do I need to set traps to abduct a crew of 20? Maybe they were looking for Shepard again but at the same time once he wasnt found why not destroy the ship and crew and prevent the ONLY MAN in the galaxy who can stop you from doing it? You had no problem killing the last crew instead of turning them into reaper sauce, what changed? Why did the order go from KILL to subdue for no apparrent reason? Maybe shepard being ressurected had somethin to do with it? IDK but he is supposed to be the same person...and the collectors also wanted his life less, Meat and tubes, body before the lazarus project so wtf?

I just dont understand thier motivation at times...does harbinger always command them or is the collector general in charge sometimes? If its always harbinger he sucks as a bad guy and soviergn seem much smarter.

Does anyone have an idea, did I just miss somethin?

[Tasker]

Basically it was a cheap cop-out way of introducing the character creator and forcing Shepard to work for Cerberus despite many players voicing their hatred of the idea..

[RenownedRyan]

Initially it seemed to me that the Collectors were just killing anything they came across. But I eventually decided that the Collectors probably are focused on Shepard since they're just corrupted Protheans under Reaper control. As the Illusive Man says, it's hard to determine if the Reapers fear Shepard or not, but he is clearly their main focus. Most of the galaxy doesn't even acknowledge their existence, and Shepard has killed one at the beginning of ME2. There's no question that the Reapers are seriously focused on Shepard. I wouldn't give a whole lot of thought to the confusion with the comics. Those comics aren't directly made by the game makers, so they may not even be canon. I would always side with whatever the game said.

[RenownedRyan]

Orkboy wrote...

Basically it was a cheap cop-out way of introducing the character creator and forcing Shepard to work for Cerberus despite many players voicing their hatred of the idea..

Maybe many players did, but personally I think it was a great idea.  It would have been boring had you been with the Alliance again, as a Spectre, still working for the Council.  Working for Cerberus allowed the game to be much darker and to provide new oppurtunities for Shepard and a new squad.  What would you have proposed?

[Beastfoot]

IMO it's kind of obvious that TIM's behind Shepards death somehow - wath and listen closely to the conversation between Miranda and TIM in the very beginning (Shepard is not dead at this point).

Modifié par Beastfoot, 23 mars 2010 - 08:01 .

[SofaKingLiveBXNY]

Even excluding the comic... They kill him at the start then the first time you run into Harbinger he is saying how he doesnt want to kill you but he will, and how he wants to preserve your body...even if its just to put you in the human reaper, still they killed you when they could have easily taken you since they had much superior tech, then when you come back guns blazing they make it seem like Shepard is too important to just destroy like the other crewmates...





They blew you up 2 years ago, now they dont really want to hurt you. I dont get it.. Maybe it was just for gaming purposes which would be ver lame. Maybe its just bad dialogue IDk., but BW better make ME2 make sense cause it doesnt right now.. You dont even get to kill the main villain, and the only other REAPER you come across is dead or derelict or whatever...The collectors were lame IMO....sometimes I just wish thier was a lil more plot related stuff after the suicide mission to tie it together better.

[solid_falcon]

Well as Mordin said, the Collectors are mindless husks.



So I believe when the Collector vessel first came across the Normandy, they simply fired at it, believing it was just another ship they should destroy(Seeing how the Normandy was not the only ship to disappear there, why they were destroying ships? Who knows?). When Harbringer discovered what the Collectors had done to the Normandy and Shepard, he wanted the body.



So when Shepard was brought to life again, Harbringer ensured to tell the Collectors not to destroy the Normandy AGAIN should they come across it, this time he wanted them to capture her crew and ultimately Shepard to possibly power their new reaper. What he didn't plan was Shepard and his/her squad to be absent. The Collectors, however, being the dumb, mindless aliens they are, did exactly what Harbringer asked of them and captured the Normandy's crew with Joker being the only one to escape.



Long story short: The Reapers need smarter minions.

[SofaKingLiveBXNY]

I did kind of feel like TIM might have had something to do with it maybe by giving the alliance and the collectors bad info and having them run into each other but if shepard would have just got in the f in pod or Joker wasnt acting like a dumass then things would have went differently it seems.

I guess there are still so many questions it can go either way right now. But the council or the alliance, I forget who actually sent you out there in the fist place...tho its one and the same if you playing with out a ME1 council lives save. They might have something to do with it along with cereberus.. I think both are interconnected somehow we might not kno til me3. t


To the poster above: harbinger is usually present when the collectors make moves it seems, he is usually there when you fight them...even though he is not seen on the ship, it take 2 seconds for him to possess a collector so IDK why he wouldnt check things out if they set up such and elaborate trap...

And as far as the collectors being mindless u right but they are all controlled by the CG and he seems to have a decent level of intelligence. nOT TO MENTION THAT they collector came out of sometype of high speed warp to fire on the normandy..Up until this the collector seem to be "intergalatic vagabonds" not some type of killer race that destorys everything they see and takes what they want... They make deals and negotiate with other creatures(okeer, Vorcha, some human doctor in the firewalker pack) some how so they have to kno who sheaprd is before they blew him up...his ship is one of a kind...He is a galatic hero already at this point.. IDK why they wouldnt know shepard but know the shadow broker....

Modifié par SofaKingLiveBXNY, 23 mars 2010 - 08:17 .

[Beastfoot]

In the beginning TIM and Miranda are talking about the Counsil putting Shepard on a goose chase (the Geth), when they (TIM and Miranda) know that the Reapers are the real threat (they're not talking in past tense, so Shepard has not been killed yet).

It seems like TIM thinks that Shepard is a wasted potential, and therefore he decides to "claim" him for his own agenda.

[Goodwood]

It could be that the Collectors, being Reaper agents, wanted to silence Shepard in order to prevent her from continuing to rally the galaxy against the Reapers. Perhaps both they and Cerberus realized at the same time the importance of laying hands on Shepard's body; Cerberus to bring her back to life, the Collectors to provide an "overmind" of sorts for their Human Reaper.

In a sense, the Collectors' plan worked; the galaxy at large stopped taking the Reaper menace seriously. But they didn't count on the success of the Lazerus Project and Shepard then agreeing to take them out.

Modifié par Goodwood, 23 mars 2010 - 08:45 .

[Collider]

TIM behind Shepard's death? Yea, TIM wanted Shepard to get attacked by a collector ship, thereby having a very good chance of being vaporized completely. Makes perfect sense!

[Beastfoot]

I don't think Shepard's death was planned by the Collectors, but by TIM, and by resurrecting Shepard, he hopes he/she will be or feel indebted to him.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Collider wrote...

TIM behind Shepard's death? Yea, TIM wanted Shepard to get attacked by a collector ship, thereby having a very good chance of being vaporized completely. Makes perfect sense!

Eh, I could honestly see it. The way TIM says "Then make sure we don't lose him" might not be about Shepard dying at all, but ensuring they manage to recover his body after he does.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 23 mars 2010 - 08:57 .

[Cyvian]

Well, here's my idea of what happened...

The collectors take out a few ships in that system, knowing that Shep will come around sooner or later. When he does, it's actually "Get him/her alive." The first shots disable the Normandy, the crew ejects via pods, no Shepard among them.

Alright, they go for another shot, he/she has to come out at some point. Wham ! They shoot, Normandy explodes, Shepard dies. Whoops.

I guess even Collectors can screw up something. =)

They get another shot though, with the IFF. This time, no big guns, they try to take the Normandy and get Shepard on foot. Surprise, no Shepard on board. Ah well, they take the crew, he has to come back eventually.

Wham ! Normandy dusts off, Collectors look like idiots. We forgot someone ? Whoops, again.

Modifié par Cyvian, 23 mars 2010 - 09:09 .

[Collider]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Collider wrote...

TIM behind Shepard's death? Yea, TIM wanted Shepard to get attacked by a collector ship, thereby having a very good chance of being vaporized completely. Makes perfect sense!

Eh, I could honestly see it. The way TIM says "Then make sure we don't lose him" might not be about Shepard dying at all, but ensuring they manage to recover his body after he does.

That would be very sloppy. That's like blowing up the entire building someone is in and expecting them not to be turned into dust. I don't see him doing unless he has mental problems. It would be a huge leap of faith for me to think that TIM would do that. Especially considering Liara's roles in securing Shepard's body.

[Beastfoot]

TIM could easily have made sure the Collectors found Shepard...
....he does seem to know a great deal, and has ways of manipulating events to his advantage.

[Collider]

Beastfoot wrote...

TIM could easily have made sure the Collectors found Shepard...
....he does seem to know a great deal, and has ways of manipulating events to his advantage.

Destroying the ship someone is in is not a good way of keeping someone alive. If TIM really worked with Collectors (yea, no) the collectors could have more easily just put Shepar into a statis with the seeker swarms somewhere. Problem solved.

[Beastfoot]

Well, there must be some limits to TIM's control over events, but it is obvious that he does have quite a lot of intel and influence... and he also seems to be quite the risktaker (although calculated).
Like I wrote earlier, the conversation in the beginning actually seems to reveal TIM's knowledge of Shepard's impending demise (Then make sure we don't lose him) - it just can't be a coincidence!

*I really have to hit the sack now, it's almost midnight here*

Modifié par Beastfoot, 23 mars 2010 - 09:26 .

[Collider]

I took that as trying to make sure Shepard stays safe. If they didn't want to lose him, having him literally get killed by the collector ship isn't a good way to do it. :l

[Beastfoot]

Collider wrote...

I took that as trying to make sure Shepard stays safe. If they didn't want to lose him, having him literally get killed by the collector ship isn't a good way to do it. :l

Good point! I'm not convinced, but good point

[IoCaster]

Beastfoot wrote...

IMO it's kind of obvious that TIM's behind Shepards death somehow - wath and listen closely to the conversation between Miranda and TIM in the very beginning (Shepard is not dead at this point).

I agree that there are certainly indications that the specific instruction to Miranda to "make sure we don't lose him" can be interpreted to mean more than would be readily apparent. I really don't trust that bastard and I'm quite willing to believe the worst. 

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Collider wrote...

That would be very sloppy. That's like blowing up the entire building someone is in and expecting them not to be turned into dust. I don't see him doing unless he has mental problems. It would be a huge leap of faith for me to think that TIM would do that. Especially considering Liara's roles in securing Shepard's body.

I didn't say I knew all the details to how it would be carried out, but as others have pointed it out- TIM seems to think it's a waste the way Shepard is merely being sent after Geth and we know he's extremely manipulative. I'm personally suspicious about how he even knew so much about the Collectors since they're so hard to track, even for an information broker. I could see him having dealt with them before in some way. It might even be he was willing to risk Shepard's body being completely disentegrated for the rewards.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 23 mars 2010 - 10:17 .

[Jamelo]

RenownedRyan wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

Basically it was a cheap cop-out way of introducing the character creator and forcing Shepard to work for Cerberus despite many players voicing their hatred of the idea..

Maybe many players did, but personally I think it was a great idea.  It would have been boring had you been with the Alliance again, as a Spectre, still working for the Council.  Working for Cerberus allowed the game to be much darker and to provide new oppurtunities for Shepard and a new squad.  What would you have proposed?

Would of much rather stayed with the Alliance, and not have worked for Cerberus. I don't understand how the game was darker...

[MauroN7XO]

I'm willing to risk my place in those forums by retaking that dead talk. The creator of this post is right all along, his doubts are anyway. People try to answer these kind of doubts within the game story instead of hiting the creators of it since this is just a game.

All the ppl behind the creation of Mass Effect were so eager to use their -believed to be, "new techniques" such as religious undertones and the like, that it has caused several plot holes on the sequels of the first instalment. If you dont know, you should. Take the Lazarus station clearly resembles a crucifix and judging by the name 'Shepard' - something almost like 'Shepherd' you can start to think of a messiah ressurection and so on. For me, that death and destruction of the Normandy on the very beggining of ME2 just shows to me how they dont really know what they are doing as i believed after playing ME1 almost 5 years ago. They just wanted to go mysterious like i dont know, The Matrix trilogy maybe (even the cycle stuff looks like the machines on zion)

Who did that, i dont know maybe EA or somebody else but i really doubt that the original writers would do that deliberately to such a game. ME's end for me on the first game, beyond that is just a rush, baddly assembled bonus of some sort.

Modifié par MauroN7XO, 08 mai 2013 - 12:05 .

[capn233]

It was a way to get him to work for Cerberus that was semi-believable, given the way Cerberus was portrayed in ME1.

Lazarus as presented in ME2 wasn't that bad, IMO. It was only that comic that made it less believable when, IIRC, they canonized that Shep had gone through atmosphere and hit that planet. And put in the bit about the Collectors wanting to get his body through the Shadow Broker. It is somewhat believable that the Collectors would have wanted to get their hands on Shep after he reappears to figure out if it was indeed the real Shepard, and how he might have survived their previous encounter.

Anyway that wasn't a problem limited to Redemption. Nearly all of them that I have read only make the backstories and in game plots seem less plausible. I have not read the most recent three though.