183 réponses à ce sujet

[Godak]

ezkash999 wrote...

I don't think she was a horrible character. I've yet to see a horrible character from Bioware.

*Glares at Oghren*

By far THE most shallow character in the game. I can't believe we're supposed to WANT to help him with his relationship with Felsi. He does NOT deserve to be a father. He's just going to ruin his kid's life.

[TheSleazebag]

If you've yet to see horrible characters from Bioware, may I suggest Jade Empire, the worst game made by Bioware by far

[Leon Elsa]

TheSleazebag wrote...

She's not a bad character because she is annoying or dislikeable

She's a bad character because her motivation to join is that the darkspawn killed her family or tribe, whatever, and then when she gets into the keep she hardly mentions it at all and just whines about humans all the time. And the only one who is bothered by her killings seems to be Justice, all of the male party members just drool over her boobies.

I think they just took what they thought people liked about Morrigan and made a half-ass attempt at making a 2.0 version of her

Even Morrigan could be confronted about her issues and it was done well

Morrigan 2.0.? Uhm...you know, I never thought of that, but I guess the hair was a giveaway. 

[xgiovedi]

I liked her, actually. She was quite dedicated to telling her tale and letting everyone know about the Dalish. She starts off angry, but she seemed to lighten up quite quickly. I didn't use her much in my party, though, because I preferred Ander's skills.

You know, it's easy to just change what armor/clothing she's wearing. I don't think it's fair to say she's a bad character because of her clothing.

[magnuskn]

TheSleazebag wrote...

If you've yet to see horrible characters from Bioware, may I suggest Jade Empire, the worst game made by Bioware by far

Now, now, Kang the Mad was quite fun.

[Noilly Prat]

I disliked her strongly at first, and then came to somewhat appreciate her.  She really didn't remind me of Morrigan so much as a less endearing version of Viconia (and not just because of the voice).  I really did want to punch her for the longest time, and was generally incapable of sympathizing with her at all.  Still, I wanted to see her be redeemed at least partially, but I got screwed out of being able to do her personal quest due to bugginess.  Fun.

[Caldarin V]

Godak wrote...

ezkash999 wrote...

I don't think she was a horrible character. I've yet to see a horrible character from Bioware.

*Glares at Oghren*

By far THE most shallow character in the game. I can't believe we're supposed to WANT to help him with his relationship with Felsi. He does NOT deserve to be a father. He's just going to ruin his kid's life.

BUT HE'S JUST SO DAMN FUNNY!
I personally love Oghren, so what if he's a tad shallow? Sometimes, people are just shallow

[J-Reyno]

(spoilers ahead) I have mixed feelings about Velanna. I liked her, but I do think she had a bit of a one-track mind. It seemed as if she was definitely the character whose life we would mend and change, but I never got the sense that she improved until the epilogue. Obviously by that time the game was over.

In her situation she was frantic - her friends killed, her sister missing. The darkspawn played her very well, hell even I didn't suspect that it was a ploy. Velanna much less - she didn't even know that darkspawn had gained intelligence. I'd spill blood for my sister too. Living in a world where your kind are scorned, oppressed, and looked down upon, it's no wonder she snapped. I found her pitiable.

I thought it was great how she saves a human village in the epilogue. Most of her development is off-screen, though, so it's less impactful. Of all of the characters, she was the one I most wanted to stop and talk to to ask questions. Of course with the new system that wasn't an option.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Caldarin V wrote...

Godak wrote...

ezkash999 wrote...

I don't think she was a horrible character. I've yet to see a horrible character from Bioware.

*Glares at Oghren*

By far THE most shallow character in the game. I can't believe we're supposed to WANT to help him with his relationship with Felsi. He does NOT deserve to be a father. He's just going to ruin his kid's life.

BUT HE'S JUST SO DAMN FUNNY!
I personally love Oghren, so what if he's a tad shallow? Sometimes, people are just shallow

True, but there is a saturation point.
After having Oghren in Origins and Awakening, I can't stand more Oghren in the future.

[Kimarous]

TheSleazebag wrote...

If you've yet to see horrible characters from Bioware, may I suggest Jade Empire, the worst game made by Bioware by far

What the hell are you babbling about? Jade Empire was a great game with great characters!

[xgiovedi]

Caldarin V wrote...

BUT HE'S JUST SO DAMN FUNNY!
I personally love Oghren, so what if he's a tad shallow? Sometimes, people are just shallow

Plus he's incredible loyal.... to you!
He's not a great husband or dad, though. Maybe in the future or "he's hiding it well".

[Sonalia]

I totally agree with this. At first I was understanding toward her hate of the humans. But as the game wore on I found myself simply being irritated with her and wishing that she were not as useful party member.
Given the fact that her own clan had their issues with her one track mind and her inability to tell her hate from fact. She is given clear proof that her current misfortune was not at the hands of Humans, she killed many innocents and refuses to admit to fault because of the past of her people. She was only tolerable to me after Justice began to pry her eyes open.

Perhaps she would have been more tolerable if Bioware took a little bit (a lot more) time to write for her on screen time. But characters as a whole lacked dialog in comparison to Origins.

I still would have rather had Shale back than Oghren, his being occasionally funny and using being a Warden to run away from familial duty aside.

It is like she was intended to be Morrigan but worse. I eventually warmed up to Morrigan and grew to like her in the end. My Warden could eventually talk to her. Velanna...eh.

Modifié par Sonalia, 23 mars 2010 - 11:57 .

[Kerilus]

Oghren is shallow? Really? I think Oghren is one of the deeper characters in the Origin.

[Godak]

Kerilus wrote...

Oghren is shallow? Really? I think Oghren is one of the deeper characters in the Origin.

...What do you want me to say to that? You're a terrible judge of character?

[Vicious]

I liked Origin Oghren WAYY better than Awakening Oghren. Awakening it seemed like they dialed his amusing behavior over NINE THOUSAND to which it became unfunny and quite honestly annoying and stupid.



Having a kid changes a person for the better IF they care about the kid. Oghren supposedly did, but was ten times worse than he was in Origins. It seemed like a real fail for character growth. Total garbage imo.





Back to Velanna... I kinda liked her, but she was very odd.

[NightmarezAbound]

She is a zealot when it comes to her people. Talking about Thousands years of oppression, and with her being trained to be her Clans Keeper, she knew the full history as much as their was anyway. And time after time saw injustice after injustice. And finally her clan wiped out sister kidnapped, she snapped. And to even get her pointed in the right direction, is commendable. In some ways wish she was in a larger game to give more time to get to know her.

But I am starting to think all dalish keepers that suffer familial losses are a bit.. MAD. Her and Zathrian. Both went off the deep end.

[Kerilus]

Godak wrote...

Kerilus wrote...

Oghren is shallow? Really? I think Oghren is one of the deeper characters in the Origin.

...What do you want me to say to that? You're a terrible judge of character?

So, do you think he drinks and makes fart jokes just for the heck of it? He was once a man of some status, and the sudden departure of his wife just broke him. His dignity, his honour, and people's respect of him, all collapsed. And these things mean everything in a dwarven society. 

He was nothing but a broken man before the Warden shows up. When his false hope that once Branka comes back, things would get back to place is once again broken before his eyes as he saw Branka gone mad/had to be slained in his own hands, I was thinking, man, he must feel like hell of a loser! Some people just gotta kill themselves over this.  By then, he truly has no place to go and his life is completely devoid of purpose. So he follows the Warden.

And it's the Warden that supposes to give him purposes in life. It's the warden that proves to him he's somebody. He could try to become a whole person because of his time with the warden. All these sound pretty deep to me, don't you think?

[casedawgz]

The people who call Oghren shallow don't really seem to get him. It's one perfectly acceptable thing to dislike his behavior, but its important to consider the motivations for it. The drunkeness and womanizing is really just Oghren trying to hide his unresolved feelings about what happened with Branka. He drinks so he doesn't have to think about it, and womanizes to make it seem to others that he doesn't care. He's a slave to convention; dwarven warriors are supposed to act a certain way, to BE a certain way, and Oghren takes this to an extreme level to compensate for the fact that deep down, he is NOT the way that convention dictates he must be. He's really a very tragic character.

[Kerilus]

casedawgz wrote...

The people who call Oghren shallow don't really seem to get him. It's one perfectly acceptable thing to dislike his behavior, but its important to consider the motivations for it. The drunkeness and womanizing is really just Oghren trying to hide his unresolved feelings about what happened with Branka. He drinks so he doesn't have to think about it, and womanizes to make it seem to others that he doesn't care. He's a slave to convention; dwarven warriors are supposed to act a certain way, to BE a certain way, and Oghren takes this to an extreme level to compensate for the fact that deep down, he is NOT the way that convention dictates he must be. He's really a very tragic character.

Indeed. Very well said.
It seems to me that some people want their characters to have a "I'm deep!" label stuck on their heads...

[Godak]

Kerilus wrote...

So, do you think he drinks and makes fart jokes just for the heck of it? He was once a man of some status, and the sudden departure of his wife just broke him. His dignity, his honour, and people's respect of him, all collapsed. And these things mean everything in a dwarven society. 

He was nothing but a broken man before the Warden shows up. When his false hope that once Branka comes back, things would get back to place is once again broken before his eyes as he saw Branka gone mad/had to be slained in his own hands, I was thinking, man, he must feel like hell of a loser! Some people just gotta kill themselves over this.  By then, he truly has no place to go and his life is completely devoid of purpose. So he follows the Warden.

And it's the Warden that supposes to give him purposes in life. It's the warden that proves to him he's somebody. He could try to become a whole person because of his time with the warden. All these sound pretty deep to me, don't you think?

Just because a man has a troubled past does NOT mean he has depth.

After Branka's departure, he spends his time drinking and getting drunk, and he eventually kills a man for insulting him. He never tries to make more of himself.  He cares about Branka, true, but it is fairly clear that he does not love her, seeing as he started a relationship with Felsi not long after she left, and after her death, he immediately wishes to seek out Felsi.

In Awakening, Oghren has a new wife, and a child. However, he continues his alcoholic behavior, and I refused to help him come to terms with Felsi. I did not want him anywhere near his kid.

I really don't agree with the "broken man" bit. He seems to be very content with who he is, which is simply sad.

[casedawgz]

Godak wrote...

Kerilus wrote...

So, do you think he drinks and makes fart jokes just for the heck of it? He was once a man of some status, and the sudden departure of his wife just broke him. His dignity, his honour, and people's respect of him, all collapsed. And these things mean everything in a dwarven society. 

He was nothing but a broken man before the Warden shows up. When his false hope that once Branka comes back, things would get back to place is once again broken before his eyes as he saw Branka gone mad/had to be slained in his own hands, I was thinking, man, he must feel like hell of a loser! Some people just gotta kill themselves over this.  By then, he truly has no place to go and his life is completely devoid of purpose. So he follows the Warden.

And it's the Warden that supposes to give him purposes in life. It's the warden that proves to him he's somebody. He could try to become a whole person because of his time with the warden. All these sound pretty deep to me, don't you think?

Just because a man has a troubled past does NOT mean he has depth.

After Branka's departure, he spends his time drinking and getting drunk, and he eventually kills a man for insulting him. He never tries to make more of himself.  He cares about Branka, true, but it is fairly clear that he does not love her, seeing as he started a relationship with Felsi not long after she left, and after her death, he immediately wishes to seek out Felsi.

In Awakening, Oghren has a new wife, and a child. However, he continues his alcoholic behavior, and I refused to help him come to terms with Felsi. I did not want him anywhere near his kid.

I really don't agree with the "broken man" bit. He seems to be very content with who he is, which is simply sad.

He's not content. And a lack of heroic redemption does not equate to a lack of depth.

[Godak]

casedawgz wrote...

The people who call Oghren shallow don't really seem to get him. It's one perfectly acceptable thing to dislike his behavior, but its important to consider the motivations for it. The drunkeness and womanizing is really just Oghren trying to hide his unresolved feelings about what happened with Branka. He drinks so he doesn't have to think about it, and womanizes to make it seem to others that he doesn't care. He's a slave to convention; dwarven warriors are supposed to act a certain way, to BE a certain way, and Oghren takes this to an extreme level to compensate for the fact that deep down, he is NOT the way that convention dictates he must be. He's really a very tragic character.

Again, a backstory does not make a character "deep". It is how this story is conveyed through the character's actions that make them "deep". Oghren rarely conveys anything other than a belch or a fart.

[Godak]

casedawgz wrote...

Godak wrote...

Kerilus wrote...

So, do you think he drinks and makes fart jokes just for the heck of it? He was once a man of some status, and the sudden departure of his wife just broke him. His dignity, his honour, and people's respect of him, all collapsed. And these things mean everything in a dwarven society. 

He was nothing but a broken man before the Warden shows up. When his false hope that once Branka comes back, things would get back to place is once again broken before his eyes as he saw Branka gone mad/had to be slained in his own hands, I was thinking, man, he must feel like hell of a loser! Some people just gotta kill themselves over this.  By then, he truly has no place to go and his life is completely devoid of purpose. So he follows the Warden.

And it's the Warden that supposes to give him purposes in life. It's the warden that proves to him he's somebody. He could try to become a whole person because of his time with the warden. All these sound pretty deep to me, don't you think?

Just because a man has a troubled past does NOT mean he has depth.

After Branka's departure, he spends his time drinking and getting drunk, and he eventually kills a man for insulting him. He never tries to make more of himself.  He cares about Branka, true, but it is fairly clear that he does not love her, seeing as he started a relationship with Felsi not long after she left, and after her death, he immediately wishes to seek out Felsi.

In Awakening, Oghren has a new wife, and a child. However, he continues his alcoholic behavior, and I refused to help him come to terms with Felsi. I did not want him anywhere near his kid.

I really don't agree with the "broken man" bit. He seems to be very content with who he is, which is simply sad.

He's not content. And a lack of heroic redemption does not equate to a lack of depth.

He does not need to redeem himself to have depth. He does need more than flatulence, though.

[Kerilus]

Godak wrote...

Just because a man has a troubled past does NOT mean he has depth.

After Branka's departure, he spends his time drinking and getting drunk, and he eventually kills a man for insulting him. He never tries to make more of himself.  He cares about Branka, true, but it is fairly clear that he does not love her, seeing as he started a relationship with Felsi not long after she left, and after her death, he immediately wishes to seek out Felsi.

In Awakening, Oghren has a new wife, and a child. However, he continues his alcoholic behavior, and I refused to help him come to terms with Felsi. I did not want him anywhere near his kid.

I really don't agree with the "broken man" bit. He seems to be very content with who he is, which is simply sad.

What could he have done otherwise? The whole Orzammar abandoned Branka and looked Oghren as a total loser for getting left behind by his wife. A person can only be so tough. And him womanizing and seeking out Felsi is as casedawgz pointed out, to let himself not feel like such a complete loser, as well as to fill the void of purpose after his realization that Branka is truly and entirely gone.

For Awakening, I did not get too much into him yet, so I can't judge.

Modifié par Kerilus, 24 mars 2010 - 01:14 .

[CybAnt1]

BTW, I'm still wondering.



If Velanna could summon sylvans when she's attacking you, how come she no longer has this ability when she joins the party.



She also seems to have lost a teleport ability too -- some form of druidic "walk through the roots" or something like that -- of course that makes sense -- teleport abilities are nasty gamebreakers in most CRPGs as they allow people to bypass plot triggers.