51 réponses à ce sujet

[Crixt]

It's an expansion, just a small one.

[Haexpane]

It is an expansion. just because it doesnt integrate with the first game does not change it. See the Fallout 3 expansions



That being said, the fact that DAOA and DAO do not truly integrate is indeed the biggest let down of all.

[Maria Caliban]

Wicked 702 wrote...

No it's not an expansion, and here's why:

An expansion, taking the literal meaning of the word, must expand upon the original game. It must add something new, say a new campaign, while also integrating itself into the base.

There are two problems here.
1. The literal meaning of a word isn't the only meaning of a word. Take the phrase, "I'm an aspiring author." The literal meaning of the word aspire is 'to breathe.' It's a literal meaning that *no one uses,* instead aspire means to have a specific, often lofty goal, which is a figurative meaning.

2. You're adding to the literal meaning. The literal meaning of expansion is 'a spreading out.' It merely means to increase in some capacity. There are no specifications as to what that capacity would be. Awakening expands the story of the Dragon Age, which is part of the game.

[Havokk7]

I would say that Dragon Age: Origins Awakening is not an expansion to Dragon Age: Origins, it is a sequel, in the same way that Mass Effect 2 is a sequel to Mass Effect 1.

You can extend the story by taking your character from DAO (or ME1) into DAOA (or ME2) or start a new character with some predefined story events. Nothing from DAOA (ME2) goes back into DAO (ME1) - the original game is unchanged.

Neverwinter Nights Hordes of the Underdark and Shadows of Udrentide were expansions. They added skills and prestige classes to the original game (as well as being seperate stories that had nothing to do with the original game's story).

Then again, we are talking about a marketing term here, not a technical term. Marketing weasels aren't known for their rigourously correct use of language.

B

P.S. "to aspire" means "to breathe"? Really? in what dictionary?

Modifié par Havokk7, 01 avril 2010 - 02:34 .

[ChaosUndivded]

it's not a sequel.. they usually have a 2 tacked on the name somewhere.. it's a stand-alone campaign/module/add-on/whatever, but it is not an expansion, nor a sequel.. i think we can agree to that, ne?



oh and aspire..



–verb (used without object),-pired, -pir·ing.

1.to long, aim, or seek ambitiously; be eagerly desirous, esp. for something great or of high value (usually fol. by to, after, or an infinitive): to aspire after literary immortality; to aspire to be a doctor.

2.Archaic. to rise up; soar; mount; tower.



no breathing there..



now REspire on the other hand



–verb (used without object)

1.to inhale and exhale air for the purpose of maintaining life; breathe.

2.to breathe freely again, after anxiety, trouble, etc.

–verb (used with object)

3.to breathe; inhale and exhale.

4.to exhale.

[dbkkk]

ChaosUndivded wrote...

Mellisan, now THAT was a boss fight.. think i'm still having nightmares over that one

Yeah that fight rocked. BG2 and ToB had some differnt, unique and intense fights.

Heck I still remember Sarevok from the final fight in BG1 with all those damn exploding bolts going off. I miss those fights where if you didn't take care of the enemy mage and enemy healer asap you were screwed. I miss games where the enemy would in some encounters attack your clothies not just mindlessly resspond to a tank's taunts.

[Haexpane]

BG2 and the expansion = best RPG ever made. Comparing any other game to BG2 will just make AM CRY

[Domyk]

Wicked 702 wrote...

No it's not an expansion, and here's why:

An expansion, taking the literal meaning of the word, must expand upon the original game. It must add something new, say a new campaign, while also integrating itself into the base. For example, the expansions to NWN added new prestige classes and skills. Those skills/classes were integrated into the original campaign, therefore adding to it greatly. I could start a new character and use the skills I installed within the context of the regular campaign. With DA:O:A, I cannot. The "purchase" does not integrate in ANY way with the original campaign. It adds nothing. In a sense, it is really more of a sequel. But since it isn't very long I'd call it Dragon Age 1.2 or something.

Edit: Now that I think about it, the best description for Awakenings would have been a module. That's exactly what it is. A separate and distinct module from the original game that adds nothing to it but allows you to important your character from the original into it.

Exactly.  I expected as an expansion that my PC could revisit the lands left behind in Origins and vice versa.  You know a real "Expansion" of new lands and territory expanding and opening up to explore etc.  Not just be perma locked into Awakenings once it's over ...

Modifié par Domyk, 01 avril 2010 - 09:06 .

[nubbers666]

im kinda mixed on this yes it has the appearance of a expan but at the same time doesn't have the feel of it

[dbkkk]

Haexpane wrote...

BG2 and the expansion = best RPG ever made. Comparing any other game to BG2 will just make AM CRY

Well all this nostalgia made me cry too. So I just started a new BG2 playthrough last night. Damn you Irenicus!

[ladydesire]

Wicked 702 wrote...


Now granted, this module is more detailed in that some of the choices made in the original affect things that happen in it. By that definition, you could argue Mass Effect 2 to be an expansion to ME1 since certain things transfer over but we all know this is not true. For something to TRULY be an expansion it must work in both directions: Forward, by adding new content and quests and backward, by improving directly upon the original with new units, skills, enemies, etc. Awakenings only goes one way. It's an add-on, a module.

There was a lot of content in the two Neverwinter Nights games that did not go backward to the original campaigns, which is what Bioware did with Awakening; they added nothing to the Original Campaign (Origins) but expanded on what was available there in Awakening.

Edit: Unless we just want to argue that something officially made by the company is an "expansion" and anything produced by the community is a "module", completely ignoring the actual composition of such things, then we really are arguing semantics.

It's not an integrated expansion like the various ones for The Sims (1, 2 or 3), nor is it the OC expanding expansion of Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights, but it still expands on what came before (I would have been annoyed if only the new foes got shiny new abilities). :innocent:

[Domyk]

dbkkk wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

BG2 and the expansion = best RPG ever made. Comparing any other game to BG2 will just make AM CRY

Well all this nostalgia made me cry too. So I just started a new BG2 playthrough last night. Damn you Irenicus!

Speaking of which I may be one of the very few who has *never* played Baldurs Gate.  Anyways I got my hands on BG2 recently and gonna try it out.

[dbkkk]

Domyk wrote...

dbkkk wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

BG2 and the expansion = best RPG ever made. Comparing any other game to BG2 will just make AM CRY

Well all this nostalgia made me cry too. So I just started a new BG2 playthrough last night. Damn you Irenicus!

Speaking of which I may be one of the very few who has *never* played Baldurs Gate.  Anyways I got my hands on BG2 recently and gonna try it out.

Be aware the graphics engine is very out-ot-date by today's standards, virtually all dialog is writeen, and the combat and magic system is very differnt being based on the AD&D 2nd edition rules (which I kind of miss since it places a lot more limitations on you).

I think the main quest plot is fascinating and some of the side quests were very enjoyable also. The immersion was excellent and the scope was enormous (like DAO imo). I also suggest Throne of Bhaal expansion. It does a very good job by the end of making you feel like a 'god' and that youa re fighting similar scale creatures. I really liked the Watcher's Keep ... the final battle was truly  insane on the insane difficulty setting.

However, if you want to play quite possibly the best rpg ever (though it was developed by Black Isle but assisted by Bioware), then I also heartily recommend Planescape Torment. Of all rpgs that still stands out as the best story and most creative (though Morrowind, BG2 and DAO were pretty darn good plots also imho). If you google Spellhold Studios and the game name you shoudl find whatever utilities you need to play that game and mnay others (including BG1, IWD, BG2, etc.) on modern PCs with full widescreen high resolution support.

Enjoy!

[Sylixe]

wrdnshprd wrote...

i have a question.. can we agree that origins is a succesor to baldur's gate and NWN?

Stopped reading right there.

It's not even close to as good as those titles.

[vranasm2]

Anyone remembers Diablo 2 : Lord of Destruction ? THAT was an expansion. This feels more like campaign module made in "NWN 2" toolset.

But I still like it and dont sorrow the buy, but i payed 15 pounds for it, as for usual expansion ;-).

[Rithz Rathz]

Be aware the graphics engine is very out-ot-date by today's standards, virtually all dialog is writeen, and the combat and magic system is very differnt being based on the AD&D 2nd edition rules (which I kind of miss since it places a lot more limitations on you).
.

However, if you want to play quite possibly the best rpg ever (though it was developed by Black Isle but assisted by Bioware), then I also heartily recommend Planescape Torment. Of all rpgs that still stands out as the best story and most creative (though Morrowind, BG2 and DAO were pretty darn good plots also imho). If you google Spellhold Studios and the game name you shoudl find whatever utilities you need to play that game and mnay others (including BG1, IWD, BG2, etc.) on modern PCs with full widescreen high resolution support.

Enjoy!

One of reason BG 1-2 left suchs a huge expression might just have been cause of the limited isometric graphicsystem. Somehow prerendered scenery just have so much more athmosphere then what 3d engines can produce - or the artists using todays engines lack inspiration. Allso, the human brain >>>>todays GFX cards by far - limited graphic forces your mind to fill in the gaps. Prolly allso why books often leaves stronger impressions then movies. Realistic graphic forces a look and a world upon the player and if the creators havent done their job really good, they just cant compete with the fantasy/imaginery the player have themself when they let their mind wander.

And i fully agree with Torment beeing one of the most wtf moments in computer based RPG. I still wonder why noone have made a Planescape rpg since this aclaimed game, which many actually have called the best rpg ever made for pc. I could find myself surfing for a dialog print from Torment - i dont think i would do that with other game. If the common rpg game was "directed" by Roland Emmeric, Torment would have been made by Cohen Brothers or David Lynch.

[dbkkk]

Rithz Rathz wrote...

Be aware the graphics engine is very out-ot-date by today's standards, virtually all dialog is writeen, and the combat and magic system is very differnt being based on the AD&D 2nd edition rules (which I kind of miss since it places a lot more limitations on you).
.

However, if you want to play quite possibly the best rpg ever (though it was developed by Black Isle but assisted by Bioware), then I also heartily recommend Planescape Torment. Of all rpgs that still stands out as the best story and most creative (though Morrowind, BG2 and DAO were pretty darn good plots also imho). If you google Spellhold Studios and the game name you shoudl find whatever utilities you need to play that game and mnay others (including BG1, IWD, BG2, etc.) on modern PCs with full widescreen high resolution support.

Enjoy!

One of reason BG 1-2 left suchs a huge expression might just have been cause of the limited isometric graphicsystem. Somehow prerendered scenery just have so much more athmosphere then what 3d engines can produce - or the artists using todays engines lack inspiration. Allso, the human brain >>>>todays GFX cards by far - limited graphic forces your mind to fill in the gaps. Prolly allso why books often leaves stronger impressions then movies. Realistic graphic forces a look and a world upon the player and if the creators havent done their job really good, they just cant compete with the fantasy/imaginery the player have themself when they let their mind wander.

And i fully agree with Torment beeing one of the most wtf moments in computer based RPG. I still wonder why noone have made a Planescape rpg since this aclaimed game, which many actually have called the best rpg ever made for pc. I could find myself surfing for a dialog print from Torment - i dont think i would do that with other game. If the common rpg game was "directed" by Roland Emmeric, Torment would have been made by Cohen Brothers or David Lynch.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with your assessment regarding the older isometric graphics of the Infinity engine. I really thought the immersion in BG2+ToB and PST was amazing. Some of the game areas were very creative and were truly fanatsy settings with unique imagery. Still I must admit that I also enjoyed some of the designs and imagery of Mask of the Betrayer and Horde of the Underdark based on the Aurora engine.

Personally, I enjoyed some of the imagery in DAO too. Sure the Deep Roads is mostly the same thing over and over and the Brecilian forest is rather boring imo, but still DAO had its moments too.I liked the CIrcle Tower with all the Abominations and 'flesh' ornamentation. I know a lot of perople dislike the Fade (which maybe I am a sucker but I always enjoyed) and I thought they pulled that off pretty well from a graphical standpoint. The Ruined Temple had a nice presenttion also. But yes there were some trouble spots also. For instance, it seems almost impossible to me to play DAO with out some form of the Personal Annoyance Remover ... I am not really sure why Bioware thought it was good to look like a weird puffy corruscating cloud or a fully loaded Xmas tree, but I digress.

And yes PST is truly unique. Yes David Gaider and the other writers deserve kudos for the DAO dialog, but PST's dialog was sheer brilliance. Sadly in today's era I am not sure PST would do very well. It is mostly story driven and combat was much less prominent . Heck even at its release, though the critics adored it, the commercial success was rather mixed. It is more of a 'cult' classic than anything else now.

Modifié par dbkkk, 02 avril 2010 - 11:45 .

[miltos33]

I think they shouldn't have hyped as much the fact that your choices carry over to the expansion. Had the advertising been more in line with that of a stand alone expansion most people probably wouldn't complain now.

[Girchou]

 I really like this expansion.



It was really fun and expanded on the game a bit.

But to be honest, anything that involves playing more dragon age, is amazing.

[Haexpane]

Domyk wrote...

dbkkk wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

BG2 and the expansion = best RPG ever made. Comparing any other game to BG2 will just make AM CRY

Well all this nostalgia made me cry too. So I just started a new BG2 playthrough last night. Damn you Irenicus!

Speaking of which I may be one of the very few who has *never* played Baldurs Gate.  Anyways I got my hands on BG2 recently and gonna try it out.

If you have a 16:10 monitor, GET THE WIDESCREEN PATCH, it's so awesome.

Playing 2D graphics in full widescreen mode is a nice touch, although fog of war still limits your ability to see

[Swordfishtrombone]

Well, being new to DA:O and not having bought the exp...um...module? Awakening, you may take my view on this as not founded on a great deal of experience.

But it seems to me that what the source of discontent here with people who don't want to call the Awakening an expansion is that our previous experience with expansions to Bioware RPGs have given us a reasonable expectation that an expansion will bring something new (new classes, skills, spells, etc.) to the table that is available for the original campaign.

In fact, when buying DA:O, I was on the fence whether to buy the expansion right away (knowing that I was probably going to like DA:O, it beign a Bioware product) - and the reason I was considering this was because I thought it self evident that the expansion would bring new options to the original campaign that aren't there in the "vanilla" version.

I personally would have been a bit miffed had I bought and installed the Awakening, and found that it's essentially a module, and not an expansion in the sense that past experience with Bioware has led me to expect.

As it stands, having read so many comments on Awakenings, I think I'll wait till the price comes down to a level more appropriate to a module - and now knowing what to expect, I think I'll probably enjoy it then.

Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 02 avril 2010 - 09:22 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

Domyk wrote...
Speaking of which I may be one of the very few who has *never* played Baldurs Gate.  Anyways I got my hands on BG2 recently and gonna try it out.

I envy you! 

So much pure RPG joy ahead for you... BG2 may just be the best RPG ever made - at the very least it's a top contender for the title.

[dbkkk]

I just started Baldur's Gate 2 again after many years, and am playing co-op with my brother. Wow the memories! I think someone said this first in another thread, but I wish I could play the game, wipe my memories, and then play it again ... lol.

[NvVanity]

I think people are taking the word "expansion" to literally or misinterpreting it. Dragon Age Awakening takes place in Ferelden, continues the story after the end of the game and has you using the same character. That's just it. It's expanding the universe forward. People can argue it's not an expansion because the original game isn't altered. And why isn't the original game altered? Because from a technical and gameplay viewpoint having the skills and items from Awakening would be overpowered and then Origins becomes too easy. Simple as that.



Awakening takes place in a different "campaign" because thats where the story is set.Still the same universe but people say it's not an expansion because your in a different area. Your still in Ferelden, the story is happening in Amaranthine. There is no reason to go to Redcliffe or Orzammar with talking Darkspawn running around. People also say that Awakening is it's own story and not an expansion of the game. Well they're right in a way. People complained that Awakening doesn't expand the DA:O story and thats because it's done. Archdemon's dead, Political problems dealt with, army built and blight stopped. Not much to expand on that story. Awakening's story is after the blight dealing with the new darkspawn. Still the same game, new story though.

[Wicked 702]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Wicked 702 wrote...

No it's not an expansion, and here's why:

An expansion, taking the literal meaning of the word, must expand upon the original game. It must add something new, say a new campaign, while also integrating itself into the base.

There are two problems here.
1. The literal meaning of a word isn't the only meaning of a word. Take the phrase, "I'm an aspiring author." The literal meaning of the word aspire is 'to breathe.' It's a literal meaning that *no one uses,* instead aspire means to have a specific, often lofty goal, which is a figurative meaning.

2. You're adding to the literal meaning. The literal meaning of expansion is 'a spreading out.' It merely means to increase in some capacity. There are no specifications as to what that capacity would be. Awakening expands the story of the Dragon Age, which is part of the game.

I disagree with you simply for the reason I have posted before. If I take Dragon Age: Origins, by itself, it exists in a bubble. For something, to me mind you since we are arguing semantics, to be considered an expansion it needs to make that bubble grow in some way. Awakenings does not. It is a separate bubble. Linked the first perhaps but the first remains totally unchanged. Since nothing from Awakenings carries back into Origins, it is not an expansion.

The new prestige classes in NWN carried back into the original. The new units in Starcraft: Broodwar were able to be used with all the old maps (way fun by the way). I simply assert that in order to be an expansion, the original must change in the some way with it's addition. In this case, it does not. To me it's a module.