230 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Of course it's not, and it's also surely not the only thing that the Geth are shooting at either. I never considered the save the council option to be focusing only on the Destiny Ascension, rather "the citadel fleet as a whole is about to be trounced, will you help them out or will you wait to join the battle?". Though there's a clear focus in assaulting the ships that are about to take out the DA over random turian cruiser number 6, my impression of the way the battle was going is: All the geth are fighting the citadel forces outside in one big battle, Sovereign is alone inside. I chose to win the battle outside rather than allowing it to be lost and giving the Geth a free pass to devastate my exposed flank while I took on sovereign.


Even doing enough damage to give the citadel forces the ability to win on their own or hold them off for 10 more minutes would make all the difference in the world in my ability to finish sovereign.

But that isn't the choice you're given in-game.  The Arcturus Fleet doesn't move in and win the battle, then move through the Ward Arms.  They fly through the battle, blow up the immediate ships around the Destiny Ascension, and then fly through the Ward Arms.  That's it.  The decision is literally "Go through the Geth fleet"  or "Go around the Geth fleet".

That's it.  One decision causes casualties flying into battle, the other takes longer by flying around the battle.  The Ward Arms open at the same rate either way.

[Pacifien]

Vaenier wrote....
Didnt I just say that you having control meant nothing? let me check... "I know I have limited control of the station, I never said I needed
control in the first place. If all he needed was time to hack it, then why not just set up a virtual
network through the comm systems instead of his crap bumrush plan..." He needs someone at the control center to manualy activate the relay.

No, he doesn't need someone at the control center to manually activate the relay. He needs someone to completely screw up Citadel defenses from the inside and close the station around Sovereign so that Sovereign can manually activate the relay.

[Goodwood]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

And yet, the paragon option doesn't result in galactic extinction. Yes, Sovvy will eventually take over -- evetually -- but not from outside. It needs its inside man, Saren, and tries to get it back by activating its "essence" through the implants Saren had accepted. Shepard then kills this Sovereign/Saren creature, and this results on Sovereign's kinetic barriers dropping, leaving it ripe for destruction, and the menace over...for now.

First off, Metagaming.  You cannot know before hand that the paragon option will result in success unless you're using knowledge that Shepard does not have.

Nothing says that he needed the insider.  Saren and the Geth were tools to get in close without being destroyed, and so that Saren can seal up the station and protect Sovereign with the Ward arms while giving control of the station to Sovereign.  Without Saren, it'll take longer, but absolutely nothing states that he absolutely requires an individual at the controls.  In fact, Vigil stating that the data file he gives you will only be temporary proves otherwise. 

Sovereign will take it over again on his own without needing tiny hands.  Hacking isn't done through physical contact.  The Citadel isn't a closed network, they set it up so he can send a signal from anywhere in the relay network and the Keepers would switch on the relay.  All Sovereign has to do is get enough control of the Citadel to get it to tell the Keepers to do their job.  That's it.  Even Geth can be hacked temporarily, all Sovereign needs is a second. 

Again, you forget the Prothean virus. The Keepers already got the order -- but due to the virus/mutation/whatever introduced by the Ilos Project scientists, they ignored it. Sovereign, and by extension his agent, must get in there and manually activate the relay. All Saren had time to do before Shepard showed up was to close the ward arms; if he'd tried anything more, he would have gotten several hundred slugs in the back before he could have made it happen.

[CmdrFenix83]

Vaenier wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

You're makign things up again.  You aren't gaining anything by moving in early.  The Citadel fleet does not help you, the Geth are not obliterated by your moving in early.  All you did, was cost yourself 8 cruisers to save the Ascension, a crippled vessel that is in no shape to keep fighting.

Umm, now you are using meta game knowlage and BioWares poor writing of the battle... Try to keep it to when the decision was being made and LOGICAL outcome of choices...

idnt I just say that you having control meant nothing? let me check... "I know I have limited control of the station, I never said I needed
control in the first place. If all he needed was time to hack it, then why not just set up a virtual
network through the comm systems instead of his crap bumrush plan..." He needs someone at the control center to manualy activate the relay.

I give up, you didnt even read what I said...

I already gave my exact through process based on in-game knowledge.

I wrote...

All I based my choice on was the available in-game knowledge. 

Sovereign
will take over the Citadel in time.  His defenses and weapon system potency is unknown but it's a safe assumption to believe them both to be immense.  No guarantee of success, even with the whole Arcturus Fleet.  Cannot justify sacrificing ships in this situation... especially not on the basis of *if* we win politics.

The pure paragon option is literally risking success in favor of sparing a critically damaged ship with the Council on board.  Failure means galactic extinction.

That was my thoughts on the decision.  Case closed, the end. 

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 24 mars 2010 - 03:53 .

[Lemonwizard]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Of course it's not, and it's also surely not the only thing that the Geth are shooting at either. I never considered the save the council option to be focusing only on the Destiny Ascension, rather "the citadel fleet as a whole is about to be trounced, will you help them out or will you wait to join the battle?". Though there's a clear focus in assaulting the ships that are about to take out the DA over random turian cruiser number 6, my impression of the way the battle was going is: All the geth are fighting the citadel forces outside in one big battle, Sovereign is alone inside. I chose to win the battle outside rather than allowing it to be lost and giving the Geth a free pass to devastate my exposed flank while I took on sovereign.


Even doing enough damage to give the citadel forces the ability to win on their own or hold them off for 10 more minutes would make all the difference in the world in my ability to finish sovereign.

But that isn't the choice you're given in-game.  The Arcturus Fleet doesn't move in and win the battle, then move through the Ward Arms.  They fly through the battle, blow up the immediate ships around the Destiny Ascension, and then fly through the Ward Arms.  That's it.  The decision is literally "Go through the Geth fleet"  or "Go around the Geth fleet".

That's it.  One decision causes casualties flying into battle, the other takes longer by flying around the battle.  The Ward Arms open at the same rate either way.

Punching straight through the Geth Fleet (and they destroyed MANY geth ships in that cutscene) would have ideally been able to break the back of their attacking force or at the very least been able to relieve some of the pressure on the Citadel forces. Either way, every extra minute that the Citadel Forces can keep the Geth off the Alliance's flank is that much more precious time to stop Sovereign.


They open the same rate either way, but that same period of time would be used far more productively destroying as much of your enemy as you can and giving your allies a chance to keep fighting rather than being defeated utterly. Waiting around for the wards to open does not seem like a sound tactic.


What I'd expect the fifth fleet to do is deal enough damage to the Geth to give the Citadel fleet a fighting chance, then move on to Sovereign and let them deal with the remaining Geth. That's exactly how it plays out, too.

[CmdrFenix83]

Goodwood wrote...

Again, you forget the Prothean virus. The Keepers already got the order -- but due to the virus/mutation/whatever introduced by the Ilos Project scientists, they ignored it. Sovereign, and by extension his agent, must get in there and manually activate the relay. All Saren had time to do before Shepard showed up was to close the ward arms; if he'd tried anything more, he would have gotten several hundred slugs in the back before he could have made it happen.

You're misinterpreting the Prothean involvement here.  Vigil states flat out that the Keepers evolved over the eons to only respond to the station itself.  Nothing to do with the Protheans whatsoever.  The Keepers were getting the signal from Sovereign *through* the Citadel.  Sovereign would send a signal to the Citadel, then the Citadel would tell the Keepers to activate the relay.  The protheans just through a wrench in the middle that would require more direct contact.

Sovereign was in direct contact with the station.  Even with Saren dead, it was a matter of time to get enough control to tell the Keepers to activate the Relay. 

[MasterMegatron]

It wasthe Paragon thing to do. Seeing as I get a council for ME2 that's as useful as ****** on a bull for ME2 either way, I think I just decided whether or not I get Anderson alone.

[Pacifien]

Lemonwizard wrote...
Punching straight through the Geth Fleet (and they destroyed MANY geth ships in that cutscene) would have ideally been able to break the back of their attacking force or at the very least been able to relieve some of the pressure on the Citadel forces. Either way, every extra minute that the Citadel Forces can keep the Geth off the Alliance's flank is that much more precious time to stop Sovereign.

Honestly, my Shepard would have sacrificed the entire Alliance fleet to destroy Sovereign, so worrying about the status of the rest of the Citadel forces and how they were handling the Geth didn't much matter. ETA: And I say this because the game fails to tell you how they're doing other than the Destiny Ascension is about to fall.

A pity the cutscene is the same regardless of your decision.

Modifié par Pacifien, 24 mars 2010 - 04:04 .

[BlackFlameGhost]

I saved the council because MY Shep is the type of badass that can, will, and have pushed through roadblocks with a biotic blast and a shotgun to the face.



I... have no faith in humanity, or at least very little faith in humanity. My Shep (even before ME2) was to represent what I thought the very best our race had to offer, And what does that say about me if I let the aliens that have ran space since before we even climbed out of the primordial ooze die? Sure there needs to be some head smacking because people dont believe in other people... and borrowing a line from the first game "I'd call that human nature but..."



Yea, doesnt matter if your black white blue purple orange green covered in scales or made of jelly. An idiotic **** is an idiotic ****.

[CmdrFenix83]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Punching straight through the Geth Fleet (and they destroyed MANY geth ships in that cutscene) would have ideally been able to break the back of their attacking force or at the very least been able to relieve some of the pressure on the Citadel forces. Either way, every extra minute that the Citadel Forces can keep the Geth off the Alliance's flank is that much more precious time to stop Sovereign.


They open the same rate either way, but that same period of time would be used far more productively destroying as much of your enemy as you can and giving your allies a chance to keep fighting rather than being defeated utterly. Waiting around for the wards to open does not seem like a sound tactic.


What I'd expect the fifth fleet to do is deal enough damage to the Geth to give the Citadel fleet a fighting chance, then move on to Sovereign and let them deal with the remaining Geth. That's exactly how it plays out, too.

The point is that the Geth fleet is tied up with the Citadel one.  Even if the Citadel forces are in a losing battle, they're still engaged, and cannot break away.  If that was the case, Shepard could just close the ward arms after the Arcturus fleet was through, and Shepard would know that. 

Moving in most certainly helps the remnants of the Citadel fleet, I don't deny it.  However, with what casualties you may sustain, is it worth it to risk losing everything to help them?  I personally couldn't justify sacrificing even one ship to 'lighten the load' for the Citadel fleet on the way to Sovereign.  We simply don't have enough information on Sovereign's weapon/shield potencies to know what it'll take to drop him. 

[Lemonwizard]

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...
Punching straight through the Geth Fleet (and they destroyed MANY geth ships in that cutscene) would have ideally been able to break the back of their attacking force or at the very least been able to relieve some of the pressure on the Citadel forces. Either way, every extra minute that the Citadel Forces can keep the Geth off the Alliance's flank is that much more precious time to stop Sovereign.

Honestly, my Shepard would have sacrificed the entire Alliance fleet to destroy Sovereign, so worrying about the status of the rest of the Citadel forces and how they were handling the Geth didn't much matter. ETA: And I say this because the game fails to tell you how they're doing other than the Destiny Ascension is about to fall.

A pity the cutscene is the same regardless of your decision.

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Modifié par Lemonwizard, 24 mars 2010 - 04:05 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...
Punching straight through the Geth Fleet (and they destroyed MANY geth ships in that cutscene) would have ideally been able to break the back of their attacking force or at the very least been able to relieve some of the pressure on the Citadel forces. Either way, every extra minute that the Citadel Forces can keep the Geth off the Alliance's flank is that much more precious time to stop Sovereign.

Honestly, my Shepard would have sacrificed the entire Alliance fleet to destroy Sovereign, so worrying about the status of the rest of the Citadel forces and how they were handling the Geth didn't much matter. ETA: And I say this because the game fails to tell you how they're doing other than the Destiny Ascension is about to fall.

A pity the cutscene is the same regardless of your decision.

I agree completely.  The entire way the decision is presented is literally "Sacrifice humans and ships to save the three leaders when you don't know what it'll take to beat Sovereign?  Y/N"

Though the cutscene bit... Well, it's just another example of BioWare making sure the idealist, pure-paragons get absolutely everything perfect.  My main is a Paragade, but I have mostly pure Paragon characters.  It's rather annoying seeing how 'perfect' everything is with the Paragons.  It's really the most rewarding way to play if you always pick the blue option blindly.  Sad, really.

[Pacifien]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Except I did destroy Sovereign without bothering to clean up the Geth Fleet first, so the Citadel fleet must have been good for something.

[CmdrFenix83]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...
Punching straight through the Geth Fleet (and they destroyed MANY geth ships in that cutscene) would have ideally been able to break the back of their attacking force or at the very least been able to relieve some of the pressure on the Citadel forces. Either way, every extra minute that the Citadel Forces can keep the Geth off the Alliance's flank is that much more precious time to stop Sovereign.

Honestly, my Shepard would have sacrificed the entire Alliance fleet to destroy Sovereign, so worrying about the status of the rest of the Citadel forces and how they were handling the Geth didn't much matter. ETA: And I say this because the game fails to tell you how they're doing other than the Destiny Ascension is about to fall.

A pity the cutscene is the same regardless of your decision.

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

So wait until the Arcturus Fleet is inside the Ward arms and engaged before resealing them and locking the Geth out, if that was really the case.  The fact that the Geth never hit you from behind makes this point clear after-the-fact.

Honestly, I would love for more Morinth-esque choices in the game.  Like those old 'choose your own adventure' books.  Choose a bad option, Game over.  Just always make choices that penalizing have their effects known immediately, or damned fast so that people don't end up saving between there and the 'Game Over'.

[Lemonwizard]

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Except I did destroy Sovereign without bothering to clean up the Geth Fleet first, so the Citadel fleet must have been good for something.

We've already established that you win either way, we're talking about the hypothetical "If I were Shepard...." situation where you don't know that it's going to be fine in advance. If it were a real battle, helping the Citadel forces while you wait for the station to open is a better option than waiting around not fighting.

[Pacifien]

Lemonwizard wrote...

We've already established that you win either way, we're talking about the hypothetical "If I were Shepard...." situation where you don't know that it's going to be fine in advance. If it were a real battle, helping the Citadel forces while you wait for the station to open is a better option than waiting around not fighting.

Okay. The Geth have one purpose to Sovereign. They are the feint, to distract the opposition while Sovereign concentrates on the sole goal of opening the relay to unleash an army infinitely more powerful.

As a feint, the Geth work extremely well.

The Destiny Ascension is bait. As bait, the Geth are concentrating on destroying the dreadnought instead of concentrating on the Alliance Fleet that is proceeding toward the opening Citadel and on to Sovereign. How long does it take the Citadel to open versus the time it takes to destroy the Ascension?

And really, the Normandy itself could explode into a fiery ball of kamikaze death if that meant Sovereign fails.

As for the Geth flanking the Alliance once it realizes you've ignored their clever feint, I'm sure it would have made for an extremely gripping battle level of Homeworld. If Mass Effect had space combat like Homeworld.

[Chuvvy]

The smart thing to do is to let them die the alliance fleet could be destroyed and then sovereign could open the relay and. Achievement unlocked You accidentally the entire galaxy. But it's a game so they wouldn't let that happen.

[CmdrFenix83]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Except I did destroy Sovereign without bothering to clean up the Geth Fleet first, so the Citadel fleet must have been good for something.

We've already established that you win either way, we're talking about the hypothetical "If I were Shepard...." situation where you don't know that it's going to be fine in advance. If it were a real battle, helping the Citadel forces while you wait for the station to open is a better option than waiting around not fighting.

Losing ships that may or may not be critical in defeating Sovereign(again, from Shepards point of view) is the 'better' option?  Whatever, you say, bro.

[Iosev]

I see it as a choice between:

Saving the Destiny Ascension at the cost of risking many Alliance military men and women.

or

Focusing on Sovereign and letting many alien civilian lives die (because the DA was used for evacuation during the attack on the Citadel).

It's basically a choice between either prioritizing civilian lives, or the mission. The Paragon choice prioritizes saving civilian lives, even at the cost of Alliance soldiers (who are at least trained for combat and prepared for death), while the neutral and Renegade choices prioritize the mission, even at the cost of civilian lives.

Modifié par arcelonious, 24 mars 2010 - 05:08 .

[Lemonwizard]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Except I did destroy Sovereign without bothering to clean up the Geth Fleet first, so the Citadel fleet must have been good for something.

We've already established that you win either way, we're talking about the hypothetical "If I were Shepard...." situation where you don't know that it's going to be fine in advance. If it were a real battle, helping the Citadel forces while you wait for the station to open is a better option than waiting around not fighting.

Losing ships that may or may not be critical in defeating Sovereign(again, from Shepards point of view) is the 'better' option?  Whatever, you say, bro.

Expecting the Geth to not realize that Sovereign's more important than the DA and redirect their attention to you when you go after Sovereign is foolish. Fighting a battle on two sides is not smart.

[Darkchipper07]

Barquiel wrote...

- the DA is the most powerful ship of the Council races; it could be useful
- I save 10000 crewmembers
- The geth worship Sovereign, the fifth fleet is going to attack Sovereign...I think it's a poor tactical decision to ignore them
- I ensure political stability
- the asari councilor is hot

"- the asari councilor is hot ;)" <--------THIS MORE OF THIS

[CmdrFenix83]

Lemonwizard wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Except I did destroy Sovereign without bothering to clean up the Geth Fleet first, so the Citadel fleet must have been good for something.

We've already established that you win either way, we're talking about the hypothetical "If I were Shepard...." situation where you don't know that it's going to be fine in advance. If it were a real battle, helping the Citadel forces while you wait for the station to open is a better option than waiting around not fighting.

Losing ships that may or may not be critical in defeating Sovereign(again, from Shepards point of view) is the 'better' option?  Whatever, you say, bro.

Expecting the Geth to not realize that Sovereign's more important than the DA and redirect their attention to you when you go after Sovereign is foolish. Fighting a battle on two sides is not smart.

And again, if that was even a possibility that the Geth could just disengage fromt he Citadel fleet and move in to assist Sovereign, they would have made it an option to just reclose the Ward arms after the Arcturus fleet was inside.

Metagaming or completely in-character, there is ZERO threat from the Geth fleet unless you yourself decide to have the Alliance ships engage them.

[cipher_Cero]

Short-term:
Desperately-needed reinforcements suddenly arrived. The logical thing to do would be to make good use of them, not tell them to stay put while the heretic geth are en masse around the Citadel and Sovereign is having his way inside. Going on the offensive is the smart choice, especially when there's a ship carrying 10,000 large that needs assistance.
Had I told them to wait, even if they managed to survive until the Citadel's arms opened they would have had to deal with the geth regardless. Who's to say they would have survived that and Sovereign? When the Alliance decides to focus on Sovereign, you suddenly have geth flanking you from all sides regardless of how many Alliance ships make it through.
No, this doesn't actually happen as we can see from the cutscene, but that's plot device--the Alliance has to make it through and destroy Sovereign either way because the plot demands it. From a tactical standpoint, it's unwise to think you can just bullrush through a sizeable defensive line and not expect them to come after you.


Long-term:
You maintain political stability within the Council by making sure its leaders survive. You also gain favor and seat with the Council by proving to them that the human race is not just a selfish, xenophobic species bent on galactic conquest. You prevent leaving the Council races without leadership, which would force them to elect on emergency alone--this, of course, provided humanity didn't suddenly overtake Citadel leadership which of course puts your entire species in a really bad light with all of the Citadel races (including those without seat on the Council).

Not saving the Destiny Ascension... in my opinion, really just winds up being the selfish choice, and you risk losing your alliances with any of the other races. Humanity--galaxy's bully. What happens when the Reapers come and none of the Citadel races are unable (or unwilling) to unite against the real threat? We saw what the krogan did to the rachni, what the turians and salarians did to the krogan afterwards, the quarians and the geth, et cetera.

Do we need more of that, really?

Modifié par cipher_Cero, 24 mars 2010 - 05:33 .

[Lemonwizard]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Lemonwizard wrote...

Except you're not going to be able to destroy Sovereign if the Geth Fleet is blowing you up from behind while you engage it, which is what would happen if you allowed them to completely defeat the Citadel defense forces who are holding them off. And if the rest of the Citadel fleet was faring much better they'd be able to save the DA on their own, so it's kind of implied that they're losing badly.

Except I did destroy Sovereign without bothering to clean up the Geth Fleet first, so the Citadel fleet must have been good for something.

We've already established that you win either way, we're talking about the hypothetical "If I were Shepard...." situation where you don't know that it's going to be fine in advance. If it were a real battle, helping the Citadel forces while you wait for the station to open is a better option than waiting around not fighting.

Losing ships that may or may not be critical in defeating Sovereign(again, from Shepards point of view) is the 'better' option?  Whatever, you say, bro.

Expecting the Geth to not realize that Sovereign's more important than the DA and redirect their attention to you when you go after Sovereign is foolish. Fighting a battle on two sides is not smart.

And again, if that was even a possibility that the Geth could just disengage fromt he Citadel fleet and move in to assist Sovereign, they would have made it an option to just reclose the Ward arms after the Arcturus fleet was inside.

Metagaming or completely in-character, there is ZERO threat from the Geth fleet unless you yourself decide to have the Alliance ships engage them.

That's a ridiculous assertion. Everyone involved knows sovereign is the key to the battle. The Geth would not hesitate to just let the DA run away, leave only as few of their ships as needed to keep the other citadel ships occupied and send everything they can spare to assist Sovereign.

[Iosev]

I think cipher_Cero is pretty much on point at the consequences of the decision.



In my opinion, when Shepard has to make the decision, the Paragon Shepard thinks, "I need to save those civilian lives who are on the Destiny Ascension." Paragon Shepard knows that he or she is risking many Alliance soldiers, but he also knows that the Alliance soldiers are trained and prepared to do.



The Neutral Shepard thinks, "I have to complete the mission, at any cost." Even if the civilian lives of the aliens who evacuated to the Destiny Ascension are lost, he or she rationalizes that it will save more lives in the long run because Sovereign will be stopped.



The Renegade Shepard thinks, "Screw the Council, they didn't do anything for me, so I'll let them die." He or she isn't concerned at all for the civilian lives on board the Destiny Ascension, and sees it as a way to get rid of the Council (which he or she explains later).