32 réponses à ce sujet

[Ancalimohtar]

After blundering through DA the first time, and coming onto the forums to find out what the actual game mechanics and formulas were, I started a second playthrough with Shale and three mages. I wanted to craft the best party possible. After doing Redcliffe, Circle Tower, and some random stuff in Denerim, I had had enough. The game had become stupid. Three mages using paralysis explosion, virulent walking bombs, cone of cold, and entropic death made every single encounter identical, and while it was fun for a while, it got boring old.

So I deleted that character and started over, and decided to impose some artificial restrictions to make the game more fun. These were mine:

• Only one mage
• No Primal spells, (especially the giant persistent AOEs and Cone of Cold)
• No Force field on the tank cheese, minimize friendly-fire FF in general since it's basically exploiting the AI
• No Shale--this was felt particularly at the beginning, before Alistair got Shield wall so he had to spend his talents in the shield tree so he had no Taun, and also had to pump Strength to wear gear so he had no Dex
• No deaths--someone dying meant a reload; (I cheated on this a few times in random meaningless fights)
• No consumables, including pots, traps, grenades, blah blah (sidenote: don't sell your pots... this just means the game prioritizes it in loot and you'll keep picking up the damn things)
• No cheesing the AI--fighting only half the enemies at a time by pulling out of the room etc.
• No pulling out of the room in general--every fight is fought on the enemies' turf
• No opportunistic respeccing--e.g., repeccing into mana clash for Kangaxx then out of it (I did respec a few times for quality of life issues, for example so I could get a point in stealing to open up the thieving quests off the fat commie in Denerim)
• Edit: No switching party members for specific fights; the same party is kept throughout the game (though Sten became Ohgren when I got him)
• No buying gear (to be honest this was me just being cheap and saving gold for Awakening gear)
• No calling for help in the siege of Denerim
• No acquiring a specialization unless it's been unlocked in the current playthrough (I feel like the current implementation has got to be a bug)
• In all encounters with NPC help, try to keep as many alive as possible; Redcliffe I allow a couple non-named deaths, etc.

And I have to say, this made the game way more fun. I had to pay attention to stuff, and learned a lot more about how to play certain characters in certain roles. Judicious use of Web from a Ranger's spider saved my ass in multiple fights.

I think my favorite fight in the entire game now is Ser Cauthrien. Since I had to fight everybody in the room, and nobody could die, I had to trial-and error different strategies and develop a very specific plan of attack. Every action by every character was mapped out. It reminded me a little bit of some fights in Ascension where just about every single action by every single party member got mapped out. When it finally comes together and you beat a seemingly impossible fight, you feel so goddamn good.

So what are your self-imposed restrictions?

Modifié par Ancalimohtar, 29 mars 2010 - 11:54 .

[flagondotcom]

I'm not that hardcore, but your list is pretty impressive--on what difficulty were you playing to do these successfully?



I don't use force field on friendly characters. Ever. And I never buy "gear" (weapons/armor/etc.) other than backpacks or the s00per-d00per rings/belts/axes once I have enough ducats (usually near endgame).



I respec each character no more than once...preferably zero times...and I've been forcing myself not to respec at all for some like Oghren and Morrigan where I feel their hobbled set-ups are intentional. (Yes, I think all 2H warriors in the game are hobbled. I prefer DW mega-DPS Oghren for the Branka-killing win. Sue me. Even Nug Crusher or CGM don't make up for 8 second swing animations...)



Overall, I think that there are many ways to "win" so far be it from me to tell anyone how best to enjoy the game.

[Darkkyn46]

I didn't intentionally restrict myself but I do most of what you said anyway. The only differences are I do use pots, I did buy gear, and I've called for help in Denerim the first couple of playthroughs.

[Ancalimohtar]

This is on Nightmare.

As for respeccing, I always respec NPCs now, because I refuse to play with poorly built characters. In my opinion, the player should have as much control over his characters and their actions as is humanly possible; but make the game harder to compensate. I don't like playing an easy game that is hard because of dumb things that I can't control. What I meant was I respec them when I get them, and try not to respec them again; basically, I wanted each character to be built so that I could take them into any fight in the game and be good; It's a bit cheesy to have your character custom-specced for a certain fight and then change out of that.

Oh, and I also used the same exact party for every fight in the game: Alistair, Morrigan changed to a rogue with an addon, PC mage, and Ohgren (Sten before I got Ohgren). The High Dragon made this melee-heavy party suck, I had to give Morrigan a bow and have her auto-attack to keep her from dying.

Modifié par Ancalimohtar, 25 mars 2010 - 10:54 .

[Ancalimohtar]

I think if I play through DA again, unless I find a good mod for increasing difficulty, I might want to two-man it, but allowing primal spells and maybe grenades? I don't know.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I have my companions spec and skill/talent up according to their personalities (i.e. no blood mage wynne or Reaver Alistair or spirit healer Morrigan), My mage mastered one school, plus one line of primal. She refused the power of blood abilities because she loathes blood magic and is leary of anything produced by it. I only respec my companions if their builds conflict with mine, and if I'm not playing rogue, I respec zev to make him pick locks.



I also set tactics to reflect interparty relationships sometimes as well, like the LI having a tactic to attack/protect the PC. I never respec my character, however. I form parties more for RP than tactical reasons.



Only force field when a companion is getting low on health.

[Taritu]

No forcefield cheese.

One mage only.

No cone of cold.

No cheesy pulling.

[mosspit]

Solo 2Her pc nm



After Ishal no health potions.

[Killyox the Defender]

Solo through nightmare DA:A



With rogue, got 2 points in archery: accuracy and perk preventing me from interruption in melee shooting



maxed lockpick and stealth, max assassin, first 2 perks from legion scout, shadow spec picked for bonuses atm,



DW 2 line 2 perks and 3 talents up to momentum, 3 [for now] talents in last rogue line, heart strike, and the thing that allows me to increase dmg on target with each hit.



Got Rose thorn on offhand and that 1xx gold dagger on mainhand for melee, backstab crits with shadow mode on go up to 200, more with mark of death, main weapon runed with expert paralysis for more backstabs on target,



Trap making 3 points, poisons 3 points, intimidation/persuasion 2 points, survival 3 points



With bow [misery or something like that in english] and accuracy on and mostly Dex build i got atm ~54% crit chance with ranged attacks , 184 attack rating ~130 defense rating, 118 dmg ~18-19 penetration, making bombs and traps for aoe goodnes

[Indy.of.Como]

I find forum talk quite interesting and baffeling. Someday maybe I'll sit down with someone like most of you and watch them play the game and ask lots of annoying questions.
Nightmare? Self-imposed restrictions? I play on Normal and have party wipes at times--what in the heck would I want to make it more difficult for? Maybe I do have self-imposed restrictions and I don't even notice it.
All decisions are roleplaying-based and not tactical. I pick powers I like, just cause.
I do no mathematical analysis in games like these. I only do that in completely simulation games, like Civ or X-Com or something.
While I have a big interest in gaming and the conversing about gaming, I don't think my skill and/or desire to analyize(sp) matches it the same way y'alls' does.

Modifié par Indy.of.Como, 26 mars 2010 - 03:07 .

[mousestalker]

The only time I use forcefield, and I always use forcefield for this, is Ser Otto. His overeager blind awesomeness gets force fielded the entire quest. I roleplay and there is no way one of my good characters would ever let a blind man into melee and none of my not-so-good characters would ever allow a blind man get in their way.



I rarely buy anything that isn't a consumable. So we're all equipped with what gets found. Everything else gets sold.

[Rheia]

I don't do self-imposed restrictions to increase the difficulty per se, heck, I find original DA:O to be just right on hard setting and so far a bit too difficult for my tastes on nighmare. That said, I do some for role-playing purposes and aesthetic reasons.



-no helmets, because for the most part I HATE the look of them. The only helmet I found to be looking cool and fitting for the character was Sigurn's default one she came with. She stayed with it for the duration of Awakening too.



-only use specs that make sense for the character. Wynne stays spirit healer and that's it. Oghren berserker... the only ones that get second are leli (assassin) since she talks with Zev about assassinations and Morrigan with blood magic. Main characters usually just use one or none, like most recent playthrough with a mage who only got her first battlemage spec in Awaking. I've no illusions that those make universal sense, but they do for me

[angj57]

In Origins I didn't add too many restrictions besides no AOE from behind doors and no Mana Clash. I also level up from a role-playing perspective, i.e. Morigan should have a high cunning stat so I raise it even though it doesn't do anything for her. In Awakenings I did no runes, no potions, and no equipment which I thought was overpowered, which was just about everything. And only 3 party members. And that was still far too easy.

[keesio74]

Interesting list. My self imposed rules are:
-No injuries (i.e. - no one dies in combat)
-No FF+Taunt
-No use of armies for the Final Onslaught (or vs the Mother in DA:A)
-No kiting

Things I do that make the game harder without intentionally trying to make it harder:
-playing a goodie two-shoes. This means doing as many good deeds while refusing all rewards as possible. I lose out on money/items. I also refused to do the Slim pick-pocketing quests and the K&D and Crow quests. I will never get the Blood Mage specialization.
-I never use poisons (I forget to use them)
-I don't use any runes (same as above, I forget about them)
-I roleplay as much as possible. That means limiting options for my characters. Oghren will never be a Templar. Alistar will never be a Beserker. Wynne and Morrigan will never be Arcane Warriors. Morrigan HAS to be a Shapeshifter and I max out that line of spells (even though I never use them). Wynne will never get any spell I think is "evil" like Drain Life, Curse of Mortality, Horror, Walking Bomb but must focus on Healing and Enhancements like Heroic Offense, etc. Only Valenna can be a Keeper (DA:A). Same goes for skills. Alistar will never learn any poison making or stealing skills. Same for Wynne. Oghren would never learn trap making (not his style) and as a dwarf would not be expected to have herbalism.

Modifié par keesio74, 29 mars 2010 - 05:54 .

[Sovrath]

I'm afraid that the only self-imposed restriction I have is just story based/logistical.

If I am taking a certain party and leaving the others behind I have to imagine that they are on another related mission,
gathering intel, getting supplies, etc.

So for example, When in the deep roads and after I kill the brood mother I wanted to swap out Allistaire for Shale so that Shale could experience the Anvil of the void part. but the game just makes one vanish and swaps in the new character. So I have to imagine that I send Alistaire back with news of what we found and that the rest of the party was following behind us as clean up and that shale decided to take Alistair's place.

I realize it's not what you were driving at but it feels very artificial to have a whole camp full of people who magically swap in and out without any logic to the story.

So that is my self imposed restriction. I have to make up story based reason on party choice.

[Nerdage]

Well I never spec blood mage for some reason, which I guess is more of a story thing than tactical, I've never used any reinforcements during the siege of denerim and I never respecced anyone. I also don't use runes but that's just because I gave them all to the cirle during Origins and sold them all in Awakening, which I guess is more like cheating than if I actually used the runes.

[keesio74]

To follow up on my original post, another thing I do is only use gear that "feels right" from a story line point. Oghren will only use 2H axes. When Sten got Asala, that was his weapon till the end, even though it was not such a great weapon. Zevran wore his antivan leather boots until the end. Morrigan only wore her two robes made for her because I felt those two robes had the classic look that you see Morrigan in all those pictures and videos. Velanna kept her keeper robes until the end. Only Oghren wore the Legion of the Dead armor.

[Imban]

I went with almost mages in my first playthrough to make the game more fun, because I like beating everything to death. Exceptions made, of course, for when I had to or didn't have enough characters - generally I used my main character (dual-wield warrior), Alistair, Shale, and Leliana, but I used Wynne, Oghren, etc. when the plot called for it, and made sure to complete everyone's personal quests.



In Awakening, I pretty much stuck to the same, but there were a lot more times when I had to put the NPC of the day in my party. I guess I also gimped myself by only taking myself, Sigrun, and Nathaniel Howe to the final battle, but that's all I thought I'd need.

[Serissia]

Right now I'm playing on hard in real time (no pausing). I'm only using gear that I've looted. My party is basically all melee with either Wynne or Morrigan as the heal/haste bot. I haven't decided if I want to deal with Morrigan's constant disapproval of my actions or not yet. I do obviously respec my characters. I refuse to play with gimped builds. I do switch out characters based on the situation. Not from a tactical perspective but for the best dialogue options for the situation. Example I usually will take Shale when I go to Caridin, Alistair/Wynne for RtO, etc.

[DWSmiley]

Remembering how beat up I got in my first playthrough when I didn't understand crowd control makes it hard for me to give up the security blanket of cones of cold, glyphs and sleep.  But I just did RtO, nervously, with a group whose only cc was Taunt and Pinning Shot.  I thought I would have little chance in the room with all the spiders - victory was a lot more exciting and satisfying.  Now off to the Brecilian Forest, though my warrior has added 2H sweep, which is sort of crowd control...

I'm still not ready to scrap the training wheels, though.  For instance, I got caught stealing in Denerim and I really doubt I would have survived the guard encounters without Morrigan doing what she does so well.

I've never used bombs or traps but I assume those are mandatory for a solo playthrough, particularly early on.

[Bartlebyfinch]

My only "general" self-restriction for Dragon Age is never to cheese out encounters with force field. I play on max difficulty, and I find the game to be just right... at first. The biggest problem DA:O has is that the difficulty just doesn't scale very well. Enemies level with you, but only in HP/stats. They don't gain new abilities as they level. They don't gain better gear as they level... you get the picture.



If I don't farm xp with elfroot (which really is pointless), I will finish a playthrough at level 23, and I find everything after level 20 to just be stupid-easy. This isn't really unexpected. Most RPG's get much easier in the later levels, and this is particularly true of Bioware games. The Dalish mission (which I always do last) is very easy, and all of the stuff after the landsmeet is pretty much an afterthought. My last character, a S/S warrior never even took damage in most fights.



Truth be told, I rather enjoy this. I miss the challenge, but for me a big part of the pleasure of an RPG comes from accumulating a sufficient quantity of gear/power to make yourself a "walking God." In a way, the superhuman ease with which you complete the last few levels of an RPG is part of the payoff.



Awakenings is a different story, though. That game is just plain too easy. Ridiculously easy. The sickening power of the new, high-level talents combined with being able to keep your gear and money is just nasty. Throw in cheap respecs for your whole party to further optimize them, and... wow. It's a rare fight when enemies actually damage anyone in my party. I mostly find myself racing around trying to get a lick in on stuff before Oghren or Nathaniel 1-shots it. Anders doesn't even deal damage other than auto-attack since I just use him as a mobile buff platform and (in the rare occasion where it's necessary) healer. I have not used one single poultice or potion on anyone in my party since starting Awakenings. I also respecced my tank from Sword & Shield to Dual Wield hoping that it might make things at least a little more challenging (I still try to hold all aggro during fights). Nope. Even without the shield, I just don't take damage. The only difference is that I now kills stuff twice as fast.



So... for subsequent runs of Awakenings, here is what I am going to try:



1. If I import any more characters from DA:O, I will NOT import cash and gear. Before beginning the game, I will spend all my money and destroy everything in my inventory.



2. I will try the game with a made-from-scratch level 18 instead of an imported level 23. Truth be told, I think that THIS will be the best fix for Awakenings' lack of difficulty. Removing excess cash, imported gear, and 5 levels will probably work nicely. The only drawback is that I WANT to play my old DA:O characters.



3. If the game is still too easy using both of the above modifications, I will try playing with a naked party. That should at least make being a tank a bit tougher. Though honestly... if I'm still only getting hit every 10th attack or so... maybe not.

[epeeist]

Personally, I don't like restrictive choices just for the sake of restrictive choices. Taking approaches that make sense fom a story/roleplaying view, though, I like as do some other posters above.



A few things most of which I've done/do are e.g. a mage who (especially having seen what Jowan ended up doing) doesn't become a blood mage. Or not taking any specializations unlocked from a prior playthrough until they've been unlocked in the current game (which is another reason no blood mage, since I roleplay "good" and would not make the necessary choices). Always bringing one's romantic interest as a companion even if not useful (or contrariwise, never bringing the romantic interest to keep them safe, even if they'd be useful). Making sure characters on a mission are those who would "want" to be there (Leliana and Wynne in particular for Haven etc.). Also not preparing for surprise battles or unknown enemies ahead of time with specific weapons and runes but just sticking with the "regular" (albeit heavily enchanted) stuff (preparing for KNOWN battles, e.g. knowing from in-game that one will be facing darkspawn or a dragon or something, is okay). Not retaining multiple alternative weapon and armor sets (either equip it on an NPC in the party or in camp, or sell it). As some others have noted, choosing armor based partly on appearance (e.g. a dwarf commoner, wearing no helms or only open-face helms out of a perverse "pride" in the brand). I haven't tried, but it makes sense, not wearing armor made for different species (unless similar in size like elves/humans - no sticking dwarf legion of the dead armor on Sten, or any armor for that matter...). Re Sten, I always stick a qunari blade until his sword is recovered and then never change it, Zevran always has Crow daggers only, etc. (I don't use either character much, though). At least after a certain point, giving Alistair the RTO armor and weapons (so NOT importing them into Awakening - or alternatively if no RTO DLC, Evon the Great's Mail...) etc. Re Evon's, not making weird choices to ensure availability of certain items (e.g. from a roleplaying/story/realistic point of view, why should one turn in one and only one set of drake scales, then do more quests to save up enough money to buy it or the thief armor, and only then turn in the other drake and dragon scales?!).



For me, all these self-imposed story/roleplaying/non-exploit "difficulties" and others like not doing staff/weapon switching as an arcane mage to cast spells (or at least not doing so when paused), not using DLC items until at least after becoming a Gray Warden, trying to save as many NPCs as possible on those "encounter darkspawn" random encounters or refugee rescue, etc. keep the game difficult enough for me to find interesting even on replay. But for me, "artificial" restrictions that don't seem to make sense from a roleplaying/story perspective, I wouldn't do, I still want to create "powerful" characters, just "realistic" ones.

[Ancalimohtar]

Those are some really good points I forgot I did--I'll edit in the specializations and keeping NPCs alive stuff.

Modifié par Ancalimohtar, 29 mars 2010 - 11:51 .

[soteria]

No potions, and no mods at all (in normal play). I avoid doing anything that feels like I'm abusing the AI. I try to keep the same group through the game, with exceptions for RP reasons. I only take one mage, don't take any healing spells, and avoid taking/using the most overpowered spells (like mana clash). Also, I try to vary my strategy and talent/spell usage for each fight, so in one fight I might use a shatter combo and in another I'll chain aoe stuns. Finally, I avoid completely min/maxing my characters to get an unhittable tank, for example.



Restrictions I don't do but might try: no pausing, and no purchased gear (never thought of that one).



I don't really see "no deaths" as much of a restriction. I guess for me, I already know I can beat the fights without dying, so if something goes wrong and I lose someone, I'm not necessarily going to reload unless I'm just unhappy with how I played. Sometimes I'll just be dissatisfied with the way things went, say, "I can do better," and reload, and I can definitely understand wanting to have "clean" victories, but for me personally trying to beat the whole game with 0 injuries on anyone cuts into my quality of life.