182 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Umanix wrote...

That's kind of disappointing. I should be able to break their hearts just like I can break the hearts of the LIs in this game, dang it.  

Oh, and if you did cheat on them in this game, I really hope Shepard can't smooth talk the LIs from the first game back into a relationship. I mean, how appealing does "It was just sex. HONEST! You're the only one that makes it meaningful" sound? To be fair, the second game LIs should be equally disgusted by Shepard's attempt to chalk it up to "just sex" and break it off with him/her, effectively making the night before the final stand against the Reapers the roneriest night of the Commander's life, ever. 

I would like to tell them something to the effect of... "What you said on Horizon really hurt.  You told me that you didn't trust me, called me a traitor.  Everything you said down there told me it was over.  Your message after only talked of 'if's' and 'possibilities'.  I'm sorry but, Soanso was there for me when you abandoned me."

[LPPrince]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Umanix wrote...

That's kind of disappointing. I should be able to break their hearts just like I can break the hearts of the LIs in this game, dang it.  

Oh, and if you did cheat on them in this game, I really hope Shepard can't smooth talk the LIs from the first game back into a relationship. I mean, how appealing does "It was just sex. HONEST! You're the only one that makes it meaningful" sound? To be fair, the second game LIs should be equally disgusted by Shepard's attempt to chalk it up to "just sex" and break it off with him/her, effectively making the night before the final stand against the Reapers the roneriest night of the Commander's life, ever. 

I would like to tell them something to the effect of... "What you said on Horizon really hurt.  You told me that you didn't trust me, called me a traitor.  Everything you said down there told me it was over.  Your message after only talked of 'if's' and 'possibilities'.  I'm sorry but, Tali was there for me when you abandoned me."

And she BELIEVED in me. From start to finish, nothing but trust.

You on the other hand are ever so quick to toss me to the side.

[CmdrFenix83]

LPPrince wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Umanix wrote...

That's kind of disappointing. I should be able to break their hearts just like I can break the hearts of the LIs in this game, dang it.  

Oh, and if you did cheat on them in this game, I really hope Shepard can't smooth talk the LIs from the first game back into a relationship. I mean, how appealing does "It was just sex. HONEST! You're the only one that makes it meaningful" sound? To be fair, the second game LIs should be equally disgusted by Shepard's attempt to chalk it up to "just sex" and break it off with him/her, effectively making the night before the final stand against the Reapers the roneriest night of the Commander's life, ever. 

I would like to tell them something to the effect of... "What you said on Horizon really hurt.  You told me that you didn't trust me, called me a traitor.  Everything you said down there told me it was over.  Your message after only talked of 'if's' and 'possibilities'.  I'm sorry but, Tali was there for me when you abandoned me."

And she BELIEVED in me. From start to finish, nothing but trust.

You on the other hand are ever so quick to toss me to the side.

Hehe, well, I have 9 Shepards that have cleared ME2.  Only 1 so far(my main) has romanced Tali.   But yeah, that works with Garrus just as well.

[Badpie]

I don't think it can be called "cheating." That's a poor choice of words. But I still think it's something that would change the course of the relationship. Even if people aren't necessarily together it doesn't mean they don't still have feelings for each other. My Shepard was hurt by Ash on Horizon, but that doesn't mean his feelings for her are like some light switch that can be turned off.



The bottom line is, if your Shepard still has feelings for the previous LI, why start up with someone new? If your Shepard can miraculously turn off his/her feelings out of spite or as a result of being hurt (which I don't believe happens often in real life) then by all means, move on.

[Xaijin]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

I shot Wrex. Ash is xenophobic, but she's also intelligent, creative, and has a sensitive side once you get to know her character. She's also brash, and has a hot temper. She's a soldier through and through and has a strong sense of duty and loyalty to the Alliance. Seems pretty realistic to me. I don't know anyone irl who doesn't have flaws. That's what attracted me to her as an LI and a character. She wasn't a bubble head. My Shep ran with gangs back on earth, he's no angel either. So who is he to pass judgement on anyone?

Ash's meeting on Horizon was a slap in the face, but it woke my Shep up to who he is. He's not a lackey of Cerebus and doesn't owe them anything. Not the base, not the data, or anything else.

I think that the emails from the LI's show that there is some genuine emotion/attraction left behind. Especially with Kaidan's it did a decent job planting the possibility of getting back together. That they do care.

I think if you feel that way and then turn around hook up with someone else it is cheating. You have feelings for one but are 'sealing the deal' with someone else.
I think there should be consequences for that.

I stuck with Ash because I felt that things weren't completey resovled between her and Shep. I also felt that given the situation going on a suicide run against the Collectors which recquired us to go through a relay no one had returned from it didn't seem like a good idea to 'romance' someone.

I don't have a single problem with her as a character. She's remarkably well done. As a person she's a mistake. A mistake that has been corrected in my permanent playthrough. Like a certain character in Saving Private Ryan, great character, not a person that should be allowed to choose anything for anyone else, ever.

Modifié par Xaijin, 24 mars 2010 - 09:50 .

[scmadsen]

Healthy relationships have problems, and people have fights. The true test, is what one does when that happens. Do you stick by your love, or cast them aside. Do you work to understand what happened and why, and see things from their point of view, or do you act like a child and throw it all away. Doing the latter, shows you never cared in the first place, so don't blame it on the other party.

Could ME2 reunions have been handled better? Hell yes, but is that reason enough to cheat on your LI? I don't think so.

You either love them or leave them. But don't expect it to not matter, or to be able to pass a Paragon/Renegade check and make it all ok. It should matter, and it should make a big impact on things. Your LI you cheated on, isn't going to want to be around you after that, so don't count on them as a squadmate. Your new LI should now be thinking you might cheat on them next. That will and should hurt the relationship.

Modifié par scmadsen, 24 mars 2010 - 09:56 .

[Badpie]

Real adult relationships are complicated, have conflict and are never simply black and white. So it's still not an issue of "cheating" or an issue of "together or not." As mature adults Shepard and the previous love interest need to decide what they want and if it's worth working for.

[CmdrFenix83]

Badpie wrote...

I don't think it can be called "cheating." That's a poor choice of words. But I still think it's something that would change the course of the relationship. Even if people aren't necessarily together it doesn't mean they don't still have feelings for each other. My Shepard was hurt by Ash on Horizon, but that doesn't mean his feelings for her are like some light switch that can be turned off.

The bottom line is, if your Shepard still has feelings for the previous LI, why start up with someone new? If your Shepard can miraculously turn off his/her feelings out of spite or as a result of being hurt (which I don't believe happens often in real life) then by all means, move on.

Calling Shepard a traitor is a fairly potent choice of words there.  Especially from someone that's supposed to know each other enough to feel that they're in a relationship.  I'm sorry, if Ash/Kaiden didn't know me enough to trust that what I was doing was for the sake of the galaxy, then they don't know me enough to call what we ever had to be a relationship to begin with.  Their comments are downright insulting.

It is not uncommon for someone in pain to seek comfort in the arms of someone that actually cares.  See above at my post about what I want to say to Ash/Kaiden when I encounter them again and they see the new LI at my side.

[Badpie]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I don't think it can be called "cheating." That's a poor choice of words. But I still think it's something that would change the course of the relationship. Even if people aren't necessarily together it doesn't mean they don't still have feelings for each other. My Shepard was hurt by Ash on Horizon, but that doesn't mean his feelings for her are like some light switch that can be turned off.

The bottom line is, if your Shepard still has feelings for the previous LI, why start up with someone new? If your Shepard can miraculously turn off his/her feelings out of spite or as a result of being hurt (which I don't believe happens often in real life) then by all means, move on.

Calling Shepard a traitor is a fairly potent choice of words there.  Especially from someone that's supposed to know each other enough to feel that they're in a relationship.  I'm sorry, if Ash/Kaiden didn't know me enough to trust that what I was doing was for the sake of the galaxy, then they don't know me enough to call what we ever had to be a relationship to begin with.  Their comments are downright insulting.

It is not uncommon for someone in pain to seek comfort in the arms of someone that actually cares.  See above at my post about what I want to say to Ash/Kaiden when I encounter them again and they see the new LI at my side.

Very true.  And it's a valid choice.  I'm not knocking the moving on thing.  I would say though, that they're clearly NOT in a relationship.  Shepard is dead.  And when they find out Shepard is alive, to them that probably means they've been alive the whole time and not contacted them.  Now they're with Cerberus, etc.etc.  You can see how a jumble of emotions can be rattling around in Ash and Kaidan's head and why they would say harsh things (that they later apologize for).  I don't know.  I know I've said hurtful things to the people I love.  And I would hope they wouldn't just completely write me off because of it.

[Aedan_Cousland]

scmadsen wrote...
Could ME2 reunions have been handled better? Hell yes, but is that reason enough to cheat on your LI? I don't think so.
.

Except it isn't cheating.

You aren't in a relationship with your ME1 LI in ME2 regardless of whether or not you choose to romance someone new. It isn't cheating if you aren't in a relationship.

[Badpie]

Yep. It's just NOT CHEATING no matter how you slice it. It really is only about what Shepard wants and how strong his/her feelings still are for the previous LI.

[scmadsen]

I will agree, that I can understand and see your point of view that things could be over between Ashley/Kaiden and Shepard. But clearly Liara still loves Shepard. She is helping Shepard in her own way right now. She even says she wants to go with you but has to do this, for the greater good. (Plot hole, forced by BioWare, to keep her alive.)

[enormousmoonboots]

It's not cheating. We were on a break.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Liara may still love Shepard, but she still gives him the cold shoulder. I unserstand that in game she has her reasons, but she doesn't give any indication that she wants to get back together. Even after kissing Shepard, she shakes her head no. As in that was a mistake.

[scmadsen]

I read that more of, Liara telling herself she can't do this, because if she does, she won't be able to stop, and her mission is too important, plus she doesn't want to be hurt yet again.

[Badpie]

Again, I don't think what the love interests want really should enter into Shepard's decision to move on or not. It's not like he got a chance to discuss anything relationship-wise with them. So you can say "Liara still loves Shepard" and I'm sure she does. And I would think Shepard would at least suspect that even with her distant behavior (and I feel the same about Ash/Kaidan). In the end, again it's all about what Shepard wants. If he's ready to bail on it because he thinks it's not worth it, then do it. Move on, find someone new. If he has any desire whatsoever to be with them again, no matter what the current state of their relationship is, then he'll not simply run to someone else's arms.

[Xaijin]

scmadsen wrote...

Healthy relationships have problems, and people have fights. The true test, is what one does when that happens. Do you stick by your love, or cast them aside. Do you work to understand what happened and why, and see things from their point of view, or do you act like a child and throw it all away. Doing the latter, shows you never cared in the first place, so don't blame it on the other party.

Could ME2 reunions have been handled better? Hell yes, but is that reason enough to cheat on your LI? I don't think so.

You either love them or leave them. But don't expect it to not matter, or to be able to pass a Paragon/Renegade check and make it all ok. It should matter, and it should make a big impact on things. Your LI you cheated on, isn't going to want to be around you after that, so don't count on them as a squadmate. Your new LI should now be thinking you might cheat on them next. That will and should hurt the relationship.

Untrue. Metagame =/ = in game or even true to character, and if it was otherwise there wouldn't be a another distinct paramour achievement in the second game. As for acting like a child, Liara IS a child. A brilliant one, a caring one, but one nonetheless. You should probably go back and reread/listen. Half of her attraction is curious/magnetic fascination, and she's already more than aware you're going to die long before her and she's going to be with other people during the course of her life; and she's cool with that. You're making her something she isn't, and her circumstances show why (though there could certainly be other reasons that are far more emotionally invested that are left for DLC, but honestly that's stretching what Bioware can do in the established framework)  It's your purview to, as it's your play-through

BioWare is unlikely to permanently penalize a player for playing an arc THEY instituted a reward for.

Modifié par Xaijin, 24 mars 2010 - 10:39 .

[Badpie]

Xaijin wrote...


BioWare is unlikely to permanently penalize a player for playing an arc THEY instituted a reward for.

IT'S A TRAP!

Sorry I just couldn't resist.  :innocent:

[Xaijin]

If that's the case, then Kelly must be the Lando Effect.

[Blansten]

Xaijin wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

Healthy relationships have problems, and people have fights. The true test, is what one does when that happens. Do you stick by your love, or cast them aside. Do you work to understand what happened and why, and see things from their point of view, or do you act like a child and throw it all away. Doing the latter, shows you never cared in the first place, so don't blame it on the other party.

Could ME2 reunions have been handled better? Hell yes, but is that reason enough to cheat on your LI? I don't think so.

You either love them or leave them. But don't expect it to not matter, or to be able to pass a Paragon/Renegade check and make it all ok. It should matter, and it should make a big impact on things. Your LI you cheated on, isn't going to want to be around you after that, so don't count on them as a squadmate. Your new LI should now be thinking you might cheat on them next. That will and should hurt the relationship.

Untrue. Metagame =/ = in game or even true to character, and if it was otherwise there wouldn't be a another distinct paramour achievement in the second game. As for acting like a child, Liara IS a child. A brilliant one, a caring one, but one nonetheless. You should probably go back and reread/listen. Half of her attraction is curious/magnetic fascination, and she's already more than aware you're going to die long before her and she's going to be with other people during the course of her life; and she's cool with that. You're making her something she isn't, and her circumstances show why (though there could certainly be other reasons that are far more emotionally invested that are left for DLC, but honestly that's stretching what Bioware can do in the established framework)  It's your purview to, as it's your play-through

BioWare is unlikely to permanently penalize a player for playing an arc THEY instituted a reward for.

Many of the achievements require more than 1 play through to get. I created a "nomance" Shephard in order to get the paramour achievement so I doubt it's existence is proof that Bioware doesn't consider it cheating. In the end it's up to the individual player to interpret and decide for themselves what is and isn't cheating. The way the characters react to my character doesn't effect how my character "feels" about them. It will be interesting to see what happens in ME3 and how it is all handled.

 I have a different character for each romance and all have stayed faithful. I have a nomance game 1 romance game 2 and a nomance through both games. I plan on playing a "cheat" play through just to see what happens in the next game. That is what I enjoy most about these games, they provide reasons for me to keep playing.

[sapphyreelf]

I agree with pretty much all that Badpie has been stating here. I'm staying "faithful" because that fits how I play my Shepards. (I also don't care for Jacob, Garrus or Thane as LI.)



Oh, and for those who keep bringing up, Kaidan is even dating again. He says in his email that he went out with a doctor a few times. Nothing serious. Just drinks, y'know. If you romance him in the first game, you'll find out during one of the first BAAT conversations that he isn't the kind of guy to just jump into the sack with someone. After 2 years, he's just now trying to date again (at the urging of friends) and it's nothing that would lead to anything more than just drinks for the moment.

[Tlazolteotl]

I want a "WRITE EMAIL" dialogue wheel.

Seriously.

[Badpie]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

I want a "WRITE EMAIL" dialogue wheel.
Seriously.

I second this.  I'd also like the option for a little more than:

Ash:  I loved you
Shep:  Well it was good seeing you.  Later.

Liara:  I couldn't let you go.
Shep: Super, hey I gotta run.

[scmadsen]

Badpie wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

I want a "WRITE EMAIL" dialogue wheel.
Seriously.

I second this.  I'd also like the option for a little more than:

Ash:  I loved you
Shep:  Well it was good seeing you.  Later.

Liara:  I couldn't let you go.
Shep: Super, hey I gotta run.

I agree.

[Ieldra]

I think it really strange how many preconceptions go into the way people argue here.



For me it appeared like this:



If you had an LI in ME1, he or she distances him- oder herself from you in ME2 in a way that leaves you a choice: you can take their behavior as a break-up or a reason for a break-up, or you can take it as a serious problem that you'll try to overcome. It's all a matter of your perception and preference, or the way you imagine your Shepard's perception and preference. The game itself leaves all options open.



Which means, if you feel having a new LI in ME2 is cheating, then it's cheating as far as you are concerned. You may even play different Shepards, for one it's cheating, for the other it's not. Again, the game doesn't prescribe anything. You might think the "Paramour" achievement, i.e. its name, is somewhat indicative of a canon interpretation, but how can it be if you can get it with a Shepard who's never had an LI in ME1?



For these reasons, I think any consequences in ME3 will not be based on a canon interpretation either. In the end, if you had both an ME1 LI and an ME2 LI, it may come down to a decision about who is available as a squadmate. The decision will be an emotional one, and on a personal level, if you take your roleplaying seriously, it will deserve the attribute "drastic", but it will not seriously hamper your ability to finish the game. I certainly won't feel "punished" if my Shepard who's never had an ME1 LI can end up with both Miranda and Ashley as squadmates in ME3, while another Shepard who broke up with Ash for Miranda cannot. That's not punishment, but believable consequence - depending on how it's handled.