182 réponses à ce sujet

[taigin]

Imo Bioware created this ambiugious situation with your Me1 LI's on purpose, where you can pretty much read what you want into the situation. It creates room for people to pursue the Me2 romances without too much guilt. I think it's obvious you are not an established couple anymore (this seems more unclear with Liara) so I don't really see it as cheating. From the mail gotten from Ash/Kaidan I think it's pretty clear they want to resolve the situation and maybe pick up where you left though. In that sense it's more about staying faithful until you can talk it out. Romancing someone else at this stage is pretty much telling them you have moved on.



The ME1 romances has been stated to been kept "safe" so the characters could be used in ME3. I think it's logic that they way you treat the situation in ME2 should have impact on how they react to you in ME3. I would especially be mad if I were Liara who went through hell to bring you back and you reward her with romancing someone else :x.

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

scmadsen wrote...

The people that cheated should pay for it. There needs to be consequences for your actions. You can't cheat, then say oh crap, I don't wanna pay for it now. That's not how life works.

What will happen to those that cheated? That's up to BioWare, but something needs to happen. Personally, I'd go so far as to say you should not only lose the ME1 LI as friend/squadmate, but your ME2 LI should be kind upset at you, for the fact you had someone else and cheated. They should question rather you're going to cheat on them next, making the romance start to come into question and be much harder to move forward.

LOLZ
so Kaiden will be punisht? cause he cheated too! haha flawed logic.

your dead for 2 years, so for them its over.
for shepard its difrent, for him its just waiking up afther the collectors attack. thats why shepard is still holding on too the picture if he has feelings.

and lets be honest afther horizon all is fair. cant see how this is even a debate.
but i love confrontations, it be cool too see some of those in ME3.
maybe your ME1 Li falls for you again and wants you back resulting in a cat fight!

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

taigin wrote...
The ME1 romances has been stated to been kept "safe" so the characters could be used in ME3. I think it's logic that they way you treat the situation in ME2 should have impact on how they react to you in ME3. I would especially be mad if I were Liara who went through hell to bring you back and you reward her with romancing someone else :x.

i dont think shes the jealous type, shes in for a threesome.
besids that she did feel for another person thats why she stays there too hunt down the shadow broker(wich is a great job if she succeeds).

atleast she kisses you, but its obvious that she also is pre-ocupied and dont care much for what shepard does or does it with.
2 years is not much for an asari so well see in me3

[Raphael diSanto]

XtremegamerHK47 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

No you can't. I've played the game to hell and back, and I write adn desgin games for both a living and a hobby. EVERY character in Mass Effect is flawed, including Shepard, hero of heroes. Garrus and Wrex have no compunctions about putting bullets in people they have issue with, and neither can follow the rules very well. Liara tends to see people outside her immediate range as variables/curiosities, rather than people. Kaidan has little issue following civilian endangering orders, and definitely has an anger management issue huddled up in there, and we're not even covering the colorful cast of Me2. Ash is by FAR the most "flawed" character in ME1, and she was crafted that way on purpose. And you can't explain her face on the Wrex scene as anything other than what it is.

What? Shes flawed because she drives herself to overcome the critisism given to her grandfather? And plus, she only shoots Wrex if you're about to get killed by him for being such a terrible negotiator. She even warned you beforehand she would do something if it went bad. Your fault, not hers. And like I said before, I could give you video proof from the game where she states she's not racist, so that arguement is still invalid.

A racist stating that they're not racist is not proof. Whether Ashley thinks she is or is not is irrelevant. In many ways, even whether -BioWare- thinks she is or is not is irrelevant too. The writers may have not INTENDED for her to be racist, or come off as racist, but the fact of the matter is, unless you're a bleeding-heart lefty, it's patently obvious that Ashley is very very prejudiced.

No, she's not pro-Earth First, but there are many different ways to be prejudiced. Ash may not be racist in a malignant and malicious KKK fashion, but that doesn't mean she isn't.

XtremegamerHK47 wrote...
Why wouldnt you stay loyal to them? The ME2 romances were shallow
and not very interesting, conveyed great emotions, but not very
interesting. Ash is the best LI IMO and I cant wait for ME3.

Yeah. We get that you love Ash to the exclusion of every other LI in the mass effect universe. But don't be an apologist for her, or let that blind you to her faults.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 24 mars 2010 - 12:15 .

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

A racist stating that they're not racist is not proof. Whether Ashley thinks she is or is not is irrelevant. In many ways, even whether -BioWare- thinks she is or is not is irrelevant too. The writers may have not INTENDED for her to be racist, or come off as racist, but the fact of the matter is, unless you're a bleeding-heart lefty, it's patently obvious that Ashley is very very prejudiced.

No, she's not pro-Earth First, but there are many different ways to be prejudiced. Ash may not be racist in a malignant and malicious KKK fashion, but that doesn't mean she isn't.

Yeah. We get that you love Ash to the exclusion of every other LI in the mass effect universe. But don't be an apologist for her, or let that blind you to her faults.

im sorry your just mumbeling.
the writes have not intended...? what?
come on, the writers didnt made her racist, she is not a rasict.
shes prejudiced, not racist. we all played ME1 so i dont think id have to tell you what her background is.

lets be honest its only been around 75 years humans are into the citidal. this is a very short time.
your telling me we should just adjust too strange creatures and see them as equals while our position isnt even save?

its a frikking wonder that so many people just adjust so easy too aliens.
beeing sceptic about what the other aliens agenda is and beeing protective about yours cause its obvious that everything is new too the humens and they have just come out of an war with an alien race.

you just want her to be a rascist thats it.
she isnt, shooting wrex? an racist act or over protective and caution act too keep the man who can save the galaxy alive?
its not hard too see what she did was just. krogans are a violant race ask the racist salarians. so seeing there agrassive background its safer not to take any chances.

that everyone is flawed is a great thing keeps things fresh.
the aliance is a human military operation, so its normal too protect your intrest and if your on a very expensive ship all of a sudden filled with quarian,krogan mercenari ,turian ,asari who are the aughter of criminal, id also would scratch my head as to how come they can have full acces too the ship.

yes shes prejidice (not even alot) for a reason, shes not a rascist. you want her to be a rascist.

[Raphael diSanto]

I'm not even going to bother.



Whatever, dude. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's there. Enough other people see Ash as racist that obviously I'm not making stuff up out of thin air.



Listen man, I like Ashley. I've romanced her. I've saved her on Virmire. I like all the squad mates, generally, both from ME1 and ME2.



But I don't wear blinkers as to their true natures. There's good and bad things that can be said about all of them.



I can say that Ashley is forthright, direct and flirty. She's aware of her shortcomings and uses poetry to say the things she can't figure out how to say herself.



I can also say that she's prejudiced, narrow-minded and carries around a galactic-sized chip on her shoulder about her grandfather.



Both statements are true.



And apparently you didn't get my point about the difference between what the writers may have intended and what they eventually ended up with.

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

I'm not even going to bother.

Whatever, dude. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's there. Enough other people see Ash as racist that obviously I'm not making stuff up out of thin air.

haha maybe cause its not there? thats also an option.
i dont think most forum people here are a good refrence as some are very emo, over sensitive, some are just crazy and frigthen me. for some reason bioware characters ignite alot emotion and some just ahte a charcter and cant see clearly anymore.

just because YOU and some others (who think aliens are too cudle and say 1 thing bad about them your an rascist) doesnt make it true!
on the points i would say shes nerrow minded,defencive etc, you think shes a rascist.

as your points that you bring out it didnt show me at al that shes racsist.

Listen man, I like Ashley. I've romanced her. I've saved her on Virmire. I like all the squad mates, generally, both from ME1 and ME2.

same here

But I don't wear blinkers as to their true natures. There's good and bad things that can be said about all of them.

I can say that Ashley is forthright, direct and flirty. She's aware of her shortcomings and uses poetry to say the things she can't figure out how to say herself.

I can also say that she's prejudiced, narrow-minded and carries around a galactic-sized chip on her shoulder about her grandfather.

Both statements are true.

shes earthborn and her daddy issues, shes prejudiced not rascist. i dont hold her on a pedastal, shes a game character sheez, btw her poetry annoid the crap out of me.

And apparently you didn't get my point about the difference between what the writers may have intended and what they eventually ended up with.

i doubt on a multy million dollar company they will make such a character that way unintended.
they made her prejudice and resentfull, this is to look up a line and tip toe on it to provoke such emotions.

on her defence with aliens that she doesnt trust them at all etc etc.
i dont think this is wierd at al, besids she doesnt mind talking with them on the elevator rides and afther everything they have been trough i doubt she will stay that narrow minded.

[Collider]

Kaidan didn't cheat. For all he knew Shepard had been dead for two years. And even when he did date, he wasn't really feeling it.

[TheSixthghoul]

It great to see people talking about this. Now on to the cheating to me my shepards didnt "cheat" on anyone. To me the whole "cheating" thing even doesnt hold water. It hard to be content with someone who doesnt wait for confirmation of said "loved" ones death. On that note one of my main point is Shepard's death. First off forget the afterlife part and focus only on the dying and coming back. Well we all know Shepard didnt suffer a quick and painless death add fear and paranoia there should be some sever mental problems. At one point I'm sure s/he had some flash back of s/he life would a two month relationship be something to miss,or regret,maybe . Finding out two years have past uh....no!

[Gabey5]

they wont be too broken up about it... think of it as a anderson/sanders deal... except with hankypanky.... their jobs make it impossible...to work out.

Modifié par Gabey5, 24 mars 2010 - 05:16 .

[Raphael diSanto]

Lonely_Fat_Guy wrote...

i doubt on a multy million dollar company they will make such a character that way unintended.
they made her prejudice and resentfull, this is to look up a line and tip toe on it to provoke such emotions.

on her defence with aliens that she doesnt trust them at all etc etc.
i dont think this is wierd at al, besids she doesnt mind talking with them on the elevator rides and afther everything they have been trough i doubt she will stay that narrow minded.

Honestly, the worth of a company has nothing to do with this. BioWare have some fantastic character writers, for sure. But ensuring that a character comes across as one thing is a very tricky task, because of people's perceptions.

In this situation, it doesn't matter what she IS.

It only matter what she's seen as.

To me, and many others, she comes across as racist. Maybe that's not the intended effect, but that's what happened.

You can tell me I'm wrong and that technically, she isn't, but that makes no difference, because she still sounds like one to me. So if she was intended to not seem racist, then BioWare failed in their writing, for me and for the others who think she sounds racist.

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Honestly, the worth of a company has nothing to do with this. BioWare have some fantastic character writers, for sure. But ensuring that a character comes across as one thing is a very tricky task, because of people's perceptions.

In this situation, it doesn't matter what she IS.

It only matter what she's seen as.

To me, and many others, she comes across as racist. Maybe that's not the intended effect, but that's what happened.

You can tell me I'm wrong and that technically, she isn't, but that makes no difference, because she still sounds like one to me. So if she was intended to not seem racist, then BioWare failed in their writing, for me and for the others who think she sounds racist.

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

i do, your statement now is difrent from before.
its an opinion and its yours, that there is a group who feels the same as you indeed suggest i comes acrouse as rasict.
it is also where your from, im from europe and trust me the way she does it didnt seem rascist at all.

some places are very sensitive when it comes too race (ethnics).
maybe she is maybe she isnt.
i still think shepard didnt cheat

[Raphael diSanto]

Lonely_Fat_Guy wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Honestly, the worth of a company has nothing to do with this. BioWare have some fantastic character writers, for sure. But ensuring that a character comes across as one thing is a very tricky task, because of people's perceptions.

In this situation, it doesn't matter what she IS.

It only matter what she's seen as.

To me, and many others, she comes across as racist. Maybe that's not the intended effect, but that's what happened.

You can tell me I'm wrong and that technically, she isn't, but that makes no difference, because she still sounds like one to me. So if she was intended to not seem racist, then BioWare failed in their writing, for me and for the others who think she sounds racist.

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

i do, your statement now is difrent from before.
its an opinion and its yours, that there is a group who feels the same as you indeed suggest i comes acrouse as rasict.
it is also where your from, im from europe and trust me the way she does it didnt seem rascist at all.

some places are very sensitive when it comes too race (ethnics).
maybe she is maybe she isnt.
i still think shepard didnt cheat

LOL, yes. Back on topic. We digressed. And yes, my statement changed because I realized I was not explaining myself correctly. By the way, I'm British.

As for the cheating? Well, once again, that's really down to opinion. At what point does it become cheating? At what point does/do the previous relationships cease to exist? From what we can tell, BioWare apparently think that having an LI in ME2 while your LI from ME1 is still alive counts.

[crimzontearz]

scmadsen wrote...


The people that cheated should pay for it. There needs to be consequences for your actions. You can't cheat, then say oh crap, I don't wanna pay for it now. That's not how life works.


What will happen to those that cheated? That's up to BioWare, but something needs to happen. Personally, I'd go so far as to say you should not only lose the ME1 LI as friend/squadmate, but your ME2 LI should be kind upset at you, for the fact you had someone else and cheated. They should question rather you're going to cheat on them next, making the romance start to come into question and be much harder to move forward.

Consequences? like the consequences that should be faced by the one who chose revenge snd personal vendettas over being at my side in a mission that vould very well be my last?


So she can be mad at me for cheating but I cannot dump her for choosing frog prince Feron over me? Yeah real smart...


Sorry after the poor handling of the previous LIs we should be allowed to at least dump them without consequences save for some heartache for them for pushing us away

[CmdrFenix83]

scmadsen wrote...

I will agree, that I can understand and see your point of view that things could be over between Ashley/Kaiden and Shepard. But clearly Liara still loves Shepard. She is helping Shepard in her own way right now. She even says she wants to go with you but has to do this, for the greater good. (Plot hole, forced by BioWare, to keep her alive.)

She says the same things even if you weren't in a relationship with her.  The only difference between a Liara romance and a Liara friendship is a hug instead of a kiss that she pulls away from.  She has also changed dramatically in those two years.  She isn't the same person she was before.  That encounter could have been very enlightening for Shepard, and can be seen as a catalyst for the relationship being over just as well as it was with the human on Horizon.  Though for different reasons.

[Darkstar87uk]

Be realistic here! you had one night before Ilos that is hardly what I call a relationship.
It has been two years many people irl would move on from then....
Ash probably slept with loads of guys from reading her email she seems like that type of girl. You shouldn't be punished for changing your love intrest...  

Modifié par Darkstar87uk, 24 mars 2010 - 07:30 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Ash probably slept with loads of guys from reading her email she seems like that type.

Personally I think all of the LIs should have seen other people while Shepard was dead. Shep was dead for two years. This isn't a couple months we are talking about. Two years is more than enough time to get over the initial heartbreak of Shepard's death, and it is a very long time to go without seeing anyone at all. I think it would be unrealistic if Ashley and Liara hadn't had any relationships or slept with anyone at all.

I hope characters that try to get back with their ME1 love interest (whether or not they romanced someone in ME2) open up dialogue where their ME1 love interest reveals that they had a relationship or two while Shepard was gone, but that it didn't work out for various reasons. Unfortunately that would probably never happen, because many immature gamers that waited for their ME1 LI would be crying that their ME1 LI cheated on them, even though it wasn't cheating.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 24 mars 2010 - 07:41 .

[InvaderErl]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Ash probably slept with loads of guys from reading her email she seems like that type.

Personally I think all of the LIs should have seen other people while Shepard was dead. Shep was dead for two years. This isn't a couple months we are talking about. Two years is more than enough time to get over the initial heartbreak of Shepard's death, and it is a very long time to go without seeing anyone at all. I think it would be unrealistic if Ashley and Liara hadn't had any relationships or slept with anyone at all.

I hope characters that try to get back with their ME1 love interest (whether or not they romanced someone in ME2) open up dialogue where their ME1 love interest reveals that they had a relationship or two while Shepard was gone, but that it didn't work out for various reasons. Unfortunately that would probably never happen, because many immature gamers that waited for their ME1 LI would be crying that their ME1 LI cheated on them, even though it wasn't cheating.

QFT.

[JamieCOTC]

Pure speculations here, but for ME1 romances, the consequences of cheating could be dire. Ash or Kaiden could be a SPECTRE sent to bring Shepard's ass down. Cheating on them could push them to go in for the kill. With Liara, cheating on her may push her closer to the dark side. However, Liara is in love w/ Shepard no matter what.

[Xaijin]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I think it really strange how many preconceptions go into the way people argue here.

For me it appeared like this:

If you had an LI in ME1, he or she distances him- oder herself from you in ME2 in a way that leaves you a choice: you can take their behavior as a break-up or a reason for a break-up, or you can take it as a serious problem that you'll try to overcome. It's all a matter of your perception and preference, or the way you imagine your Shepard's perception and preference. The game itself leaves all options open.

Which means, if you feel having a new LI in ME2 is cheating, then it's cheating as far as you are concerned. You may even play different Shepards, for one it's cheating, for the other it's not. Again, the game doesn't prescribe anything. You might think the "Paramour" achievement, i.e. its name, is somewhat indicative of a canon interpretation, but how can it be if you can get it with a Shepard who's never had an LI in ME1?

For these reasons, I think any consequences in ME3 will not be based on a canon interpretation either. In the end, if you had both an ME1 LI and an ME2 LI, it may come down to a decision about who is available as a squadmate. The decision will be an emotional one, and on a personal level, if you take your roleplaying seriously, it will deserve the attribute "drastic", but it will not seriously hamper your ability to finish the game. I certainly won't feel "punished" if my Shepard who's never had an ME1 LI can end up with both Miranda and Ashley as squadmates in ME3, while another Shepard who broke up with Ash for Miranda cannot. That's not punishment, but believable consequence - depending on how it's handled.

Likely. The ramifications, like the love itself will be of your own interpretation and making. Also apparently bears pointing out that ME is an action adventure not a dating sim, and would still be so with the addition of a romance pack, as other somehow seem blind to.

Pure speculations here, but for ME1 romances, the consequences of
cheating could be dire. Ash or Kaiden could be a SPECTRE sent to bring
Shepard's ass down

1. They aren't very happy with their first human spectre, they likely aren't going to make a new one.

2. Your LI doesn't shoot you to begin with.

3. Kaidan is not my LI in my permanent, and is unavaialble to be.

Modifié par Xaijin, 24 mars 2010 - 08:08 .

[InvaderErl]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Pure speculations here, but for ME1 romances, the consequences of cheating could be dire. Ash or Kaiden could be a SPECTRE sent to bring Shepard's ass down. Cheating on them could push them to go in for the kill. With Liara, cheating on her may push her closer to the dark side. However, Liara is in love w/ Shepard no matter what.

While I think they should be upset or at least dissapointed , I'd like to think that they're not so mentally unbalanced as to make them willing to kill you over it.

I mean, officially you were only in a relationship for about a month.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 24 mars 2010 - 08:04 .

[JamieCOTC]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

I will agree, that I can understand and see your point of view that things could be over between Ashley/Kaiden and Shepard. But clearly Liara still loves Shepard. She is helping Shepard in her own way right now. She even says she wants to go with you but has to do this, for the greater good. (Plot hole, forced by BioWare, to keep her alive.)

She says the same things even if you weren't in a relationship with her.  The only difference between a Liara romance and a Liara friendship is a hug instead of a kiss that she pulls away from.  She has also changed dramatically in those two years.  She isn't the same person she was before.  That encounter could have been very enlightening for Shepard, and can be seen as a catalyst for the relationship being over just as well as it was with the human on Horizon.  Though for different reasons.

The relationship could be over w/ Shep and Liara, but she's still holding the candle.  If you read the comic, it's pretty clear she's still in love w/ Shep.  She risks a lot just for closure. 

[JamieCOTC]

InvaderErl wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Pure speculations here, but for ME1 romances, the consequences of cheating could be dire. Ash or Kaiden could be a SPECTRE sent to bring Shepard's ass down. Cheating on them could push them to go in for the kill. With Liara, cheating on her may push her closer to the dark side. However, Liara is in love w/ Shepard no matter what.

While I think they should be upset or at least dissapointed , I'd like to think that they're not so mentally unbalanced as to make them willing to kill you over it.

I mean, officially you were only in a relationship for about a month.

Yeah, but Shepard is like Bond w/ a bit of Han Solo and Kirk thrown in there.  You just don't "get over" someone like that, even if was only for a month!  

[TheSixthghoul]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Pure speculations here, but for ME1 romances, the consequences of cheating could be dire. Ash or Kaiden could be a SPECTRE sent to bring Shepard's ass down. Cheating on them could push them to go in for the kill. With Liara, cheating on her may push her closer to the dark side. However, Liara is in love w/ Shepard no matter what.

I was thinking that, but I dont see the cheating. In fact, why would they care about the new relationship? Surprised, maybe.

[tonnactus]

Catfights are boring.Good that i have enough romancefree mass effect playtroughs.