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[LPPrince]

Right before ME3 comes out, obviously I'll replay ME1 and ME2 for the canon playthrough.



At that point, I don't know whether I'll go nomance ME1+Talimance ME2, or Ashleymance ME1+Talimance ME2.



I'll probably do both just to see what happens.



In the end though, I'm sticking with Tali.

[Chickenaut]

I cant imagined if Tali romanceable in ME 1 and end up like Liara or ash, treated Shepard like dirt. In before star war quote...........

[Xaijin]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Collider wrote...

IccaRa wrote...
I was rather disappointed Tali and Garrus had nothing to say about the previous LI (if applicable) anyway, though.

May be laziness on the developer's part, who knows. Fortunately I'm in the clear for this.

Well in the case of Garrus with a Shepard that was with Kaiden, he could have been there when the conversation with Kaiden goes down.  He even tries to help talk some sense into him.  If you played it the way that portrays feelings of hurt and betrayal after the encounter, Garrus could understand and want to be there for you.

Unfortunately, Tali doesn't get this possibility due to being unable to recruit her before Horizon(without hacking the game, which means it's not part of the narrative).

She says something similar to Garrus.

[Raphael diSanto]

Lonely_Fat_Guy wrote...

haha yeah some crazy people have there own rules, but most things are almost written in stone, everyone knows it and it is logic.
beeing dead for 2 years gives her/him a free pas too screw around.
the way shepard was treated and the emails show prety much they moved on, so why shoudnt you?
thye had a breakup-ish fight at horizon so yeah

Alas, my friend, your opinions about relationships can only be applied to one person - You. By the very fact that you say "most things are almost written in stone" and "everyone knows it" and "it is logic", it is clear that different opinions, no matter how well reasoned, will be ignored.

That said.. In many ways I agree with you - But I think BioWare's wording can be examined carefully here. Cheating is the word used in this thread. However, BioWare didn't use that word when describing ME3 consequences. What BioWare said is that there'll be consequences if you didn't stay faithful. The bold is my emphasis, of course.

There's a very slight (but important) subtle difference between staying faithful and cheating.

If I romance Ash in ME1, and then romance Miri in ME2, I have not stayed faithful to Ashley. I also have not cheated on her, because, as argued, perhaps I do not consider myself to be in a romance with Ashley any longer.

However, you can continue to stay faithful to someone (carrying a torch, as it were) that you are not technically in a relationship with anymore.

You fight on Horizon, before you've gotten the chance to develop a relationship with any of the ME2 squadmates. You receive the apology letter from your ME1 LI before you get the chance to develop a relationship with any of the ME2 squadmates.

Then... When the opportunity for romance comes up with an ME2 squadmate, you must ask yourself the question - "Do I wish to continue down this path, or do I want to wait and see if I can patch things back up with my ME1 romance in the future? He/She did yell at me on Horizon, but they seemed pretty apologetic in the email. Should I try and make that work, because yeah, we did have something special?" (We, the player, knows this means ME3. To Shepard, the character, it's just "sometime in the future")

It's not about not cheating. It's about staying faithful. There's a difference.

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 25 mars 2010 - 02:21 .

[Weskerr]

Can someone summarize what the OP is trying to say in English, please? I have no idea what the hell he's talking about or what his point is.

[Raphael diSanto]

Shepard died, ME1 love interest moved on, why is having a romance in ME2 considered 'cheating'?

There. The tl;dr version

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 25 mars 2010 - 02:25 .

[Weskerr]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Shepard died, ME1 love interest moved on, why is having a romance in ME2 considered 'cheating'?

There. The tl;dr version

Fantastic! Thank you.

[Raphael diSanto]

Weskerr wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Shepard died, ME1 love interest moved on, why is having a romance in ME2 considered 'cheating'?

There. The tl;dr version

Fantastic! Thank you.

You're very welcome. See my post above about why there's a subtle distinction between 'cheating' and 'staying faithful' ..

At the end of the day, if you stay faithful to your ME1 LI that shows a devotion for Shep that goes above and beyond, I think. Easily enough to win the ME1 LI back.

[Collider]

LPPrince wrote...

Right before ME3 comes out, obviously I'll replay ME1 and ME2 for the canon playthrough.

At that point, I don't know whether I'll go nomance ME1+Talimance ME2, or Ashleymance ME1+Talimance ME2.

I'll probably do both just to see what happens.

In the end though, I'm sticking with Tali.

I'd go with no romance in ME1 for aforementioned reasons.

[Collider]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Collider wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
So Ash and Kaidan are loyal to the alliance, but they are not stupid. The alliance, through Udina,

Uh, Udina isn't the alliance. He' was an ambassador to the council. The Alliance is being leased the Normandy.

Udina issued the lockdown order.  The ship is an Alliance ship.

Udina isn't alliance. He's council. That's where I'm getting at.

[Raphael diSanto]

Collider wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Right before ME3 comes out, obviously I'll replay ME1 and ME2 for the canon playthrough.

At that point, I don't know whether I'll go nomance ME1+Talimance ME2, or Ashleymance ME1+Talimance ME2.

I'll probably do both just to see what happens.

In the end though, I'm sticking with Tali.

I'd go with no romance in ME1 for aforementioned reasons.

I have a bunch. I wanna see all the consequences.

1. Romance ME1 LI , stay faithful
2. Romance ME1 LI, leave them to die on Virmire, romance ME2 LI (the game appears to treat this like option [5])
3. Romance ME1 LI, cheat in ME2, kill ME2 LI in Suicide Mission (The game appears to treat this like option [4])
4. Romance ME1 LI, cheat in ME2, ME2 LI surives
5. Romance no one in M12, romance ME2 LI

[Collider]

XtremegamerHK47 wrote...

Collider wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Collider wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
So Ash and Kaidan are loyal to the alliance, but they are not stupid. The alliance, through Udina,

Uh, Udina isn't the alliance. He' was an ambassador to the council. The Alliance is being leased the Normandy.

Udina issued the lockdown order.  The ship is an Alliance ship.

Udina isn't alliance. He's council. That's where I'm getting at.

Actually, he is a human ambassoder.

Ambassador to the council.

[SleepyBird]

TeenZombie wrote...

For me, the way Kaidan and Ashley act about Shepard working with Cerberus is in line with two characters who are loyal Alliance soldiers who saw the horrible things Cerberus did in the first game.  The fact that Shepard can't bring this stuff up with TIM is far less realistic than Ash/Kaidan's initial reaction to Shepard. 

Shepard also doesn't do a very convincing job of letting Ashley/Kaidan know what the deal is now with Cerberus, and Ash/Kaidan didn't give Shepard much of a chance to explain.  It's like both Shepard and the ME1 love interest are stymied by a contrived plot device to keep them apart -- imagine that! 

I totally agree with you.  Not only did I feel like Kaiden's anger toward my Shepard was pretty well justified, I was wanting a dialog option to say "Yes!  You're right! Get me outta here!" 

I think the people who expect Kaidan/Ashley to immediately forgive and forget are expecting a too much too soon.  Think about it from their perspective.  They are going to assume Shepard was only faking her/his death to go work for a terrorist organization.  That's one hell of a betrayal.  It seems natural to me for them to be incredibly angry, and it also seems natural for them to need to take a little time to absorb the news that Shepard was really dead and is now really back.

And yes, maybe it is a little contrived to keep Shepard and her/his LI apart, but then we get a nice classic "girl gets boy, girl looses boy, girl wins boy back" story.  Fun!

[Weskerr]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Shepard died, ME1 love interest moved on, why is having a romance in ME2 considered 'cheating'?

There. The tl;dr version

Fantastic! Thank you.

You're very welcome. See my post above about why there's a subtle distinction between 'cheating' and 'staying faithful' ..

At the end of the day, if you stay faithful to your ME1 LI that shows a devotion for Shep that goes above and beyond, I think. Easily enough to win the ME1 LI back.

So I reread the OP's post. He said that there are two reasons why pursuing another romance in ME2 even if Shepard had a romantic relationship with a ME1 character is not cheating.
1. Shepard is dead for two years.
2. The interaction Shepard has with either Ashly or Kaiden on Horizon, and the subsequent apology letter from her or him amounts to an end to the romantic relationship.

Even though I agree that your distinction between "cheating" and "faithful" is correct, I don't think the OP's points are valid anyway. First of all, the OP's reason for number "1" above is vague and insubstantial. "Being dead for two years causes a person to rethink his life." It does? Have you ever known someone who's been dead for any amount of time only to come back to life? Even if one assumes that such a person would rethink his life - whatever that means exactly -  why would he abandon all of his emotional investment that he has for his lover?

The OP's reasoning for number "2" above is his opinion. It is highly debatable whether or not Shepard's interaction with Ashley or Kaiden on Horizon boils down to a break-up. In fact, the subsequent letter is reinforcement that exactly the opposite of what the OP asserts is true. Ashley and Kaiden still have feelings for Shepard, or else they would not have sent the letter at all, and just let the whole thing end on Horizon.

Modifié par Weskerr, 25 mars 2010 - 03:14 .

[Nightwriter]

If my old LI shows up in ME3 and acts all indignant and upset, like I betrayed them, I will be so pissed.

I felt royally snubbed by them in ME2. Ashley wasn't loyal enough even to give me the benefit of the doubt. Liara was after the Shadow Broker like Gollum after the One Ring.

And I was never given the option to break it off! That surprised me. I thought for sure this would happen. Naivete, I see now.

[Raphael diSanto]

Weskerr wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Shepard died, ME1 love interest moved on, why is having a romance in ME2 considered 'cheating'?

There. The tl;dr version

Fantastic! Thank you.

You're very welcome. See my post above about why there's a subtle distinction between 'cheating' and 'staying faithful' ..

At the end of the day, if you stay faithful to your ME1 LI that shows a devotion for Shep that goes above and beyond, I think. Easily enough to win the ME1 LI back.

So I reread the OP's post. He said that there are two reasons why pursuing another romance in ME2 even if Shepard had a romantic relationship with a ME1 character is not cheating.
1. Shepard is dead for two years.
2. The interaction Shepard has with either Ashly or Kaiden on Horizon, and the subsequent apology letter from her or him amounts to an end to the romantic relationship.

Even though I agree that your distinction between "cheating" and "faithful" is correct, I don't think the OP's points are valid anyway. First of all, the OP's reason for number "1" above is vague and insubstantial. "Being dead for two years causes a person to rethink his life." It does? Have you ever known someone who's been dead for any amount of time only to come back to life? Even if one assumes that such a person would rethink his life - whatever that means exactly -  why would he abandon all of his emotional investment that he has for his lover?

The OP's reasoning for number "2" above is his opinion. It is highly debatable whether or not Shepard's interaction with Ashley or Kaiden on Horizon boils down to a break-up. In fact, the subsequent letter is reinforcement that exactly the opposite of what the OP asserts is true. Ashley and Kaiden still have feelings for Shepard, or else they would not have sent the letter at all, and just let the whole thing end on Horizon.

.. I think we're in complete agreement here.

ME1 LIs still have feelings for Shep. It's only been two years. There's still feelings there, regardless of whether or not there is technically an 'official' monogamous romance happening. In some ways, that's irrelevant.

Those two years have only been a few weeks for Shep, and apparently Cerberus rebuilt him the way he was when he died, so his feelings will be just as strong as they were before he died.

So, the choice you have to make as a player is - Does the lack of an "official" relationship mean you're free and clear to start with an ME2 LI? In which case, I'd say there weren't that many feelings on Shep's part (Shep in this case being the specific shep that the player is playing, since every shep is different) to start with.

[TheSixthghoul]

Weskerr wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Shepard died, ME1 love interest moved on, why is having a romance in ME2 considered 'cheating'?

There. The tl;dr version

Fantastic! Thank you.

You're very welcome. See my post above about why there's a subtle distinction between 'cheating' and 'staying faithful' ..

At the end of the day, if you stay faithful to your ME1 LI that shows a devotion for Shep that goes above and beyond, I think. Easily enough to win the ME1 LI back.

So I reread the OP's post. He said that there are two reasons why pursuing another romance in ME2 even if Shepard had a romantic relationship with a ME1 character is not cheating.
1. Shepard is dead for two years.
2. The interaction Shepard has with either Ashly or Kaiden on Horizon, and the subsequent apology letter from her or him amounts to an end to the romantic relationship.

Even though I agree that your distinction between "cheating" and "faithful" is correct, I don't think the OP's points are valid anyway. First of all, the OP's reason for number "1" above is vague and insubstantial. "Being dead for two years causes a person to rethink his life." It does? Have you ever known someone who's been dead for any amount of time only to come back to life? Even if one assumes that such a person would rethink his life - whatever that means exactly -  why would he abandon all of his emotional investment that he has for his lover?

The OP's reasoning for number "2" above is his opinion. It is highly debatable whether or not Shepard's interaction with Ashley or Kaiden on Horizon boils down to a break-up. In fact, the subsequent letter is reinforcement that exactly the opposite of what the OP asserts is true. Ashley and Kaiden still have feelings for Shepard, or else they would not have sent the letter at all, and just let the whole thing end on Horizon.

Wow when you put it that way your 100% right. Well i guess it back to me 1 to kill off the Love interest ( When you dont want to deal leave it at Virmire).... Oh well.

[Nightwriter]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

ME1 LIs still have feelings for Shep. It's only been two years. There's still feelings there, regardless of whether or not there is technically an 'official' monogamous romance happening. In some ways, that's irrelevant.

Those two years have only been a few weeks for Shep, and apparently Cerberus rebuilt him the way he was when he died, so his feelings will be just as strong as they were before he died.

So, the choice you have to make as a player is - Does the lack of an "official" relationship mean you're free and clear to start with an ME2 LI? In which case, I'd say there weren't that many feelings on Shep's part (Shep in this case being the specific shep that the player is playing, since every shep is different) to start with.

What I felt like was that it was the beginning of something. I felt that in ME1 I had been given a strong introduction into something that could become a longer relationship. I played ME2 interested in seeing where that relationship was at now and where it would go.

But... I was sort of dismayed at how little the old romances were addressed at all. The first thing I wanted to do when I saw Liara was, of course, to talk about where we were. Two years gone by and all. We never did. She even pulled away.

[Maera Imrov]

scmadsen wrote...

The people that cheated should pay for it. There needs to be consequences for your actions. You can't cheat, then say oh crap, I don't wanna pay for it now. That's not how life works.

What will happen to those that cheated? That's up to BioWare, but something needs to happen. Personally, I'd go so far as to say you should not only lose the ME1 LI as friend/squadmate, but your ME2 LI should be kind upset at you, for the fact you had someone else and cheated. They should question rather you're going to cheat on them next, making the romance start to come into question and be much harder to move forward.

How can it be cheating if I said it was over? I told both Kelly and Joker that I considered it finished. Ergo: I am not cheating. Just because the game itself gave me no option to go see Kaidan again and tell him so is irrelevant. In fact, the option should have been given. The only reason they should force a confrontation is if the player is wanting to/trying to keep both. But if I've told two people (and would've told Kaidan himself we were done) that we are done, why in the world should I be penalized?

The fact of the matter is that they just didn't put anything in ME2 for you to effectively end the romance through. No dialogue about them with the new LIs, no ability to respond/meet with the previous one to tell them it was over. Forcing it is poor form. In my 'canon', the Shep I have that had a ME1 romance, considers it done. Finished. She is not cheating. If Kaidan wants to think so, that's his problem. My main Shep, however, has no ME1 romance, and it's irrelevant.

Modifié par Maera Imrov, 25 mars 2010 - 04:04 .

[Milician]

In my opinion? Yeah, if you had a relationship in ME 2 after one in ME 1, you cheated. No matter how much Ashley/Kaidan disagrees with Shepard, or how dark Liara has become, we all know that if you stick with them there is going to be something in ME 3. Its not so much that they feel its over while Shepard still hopes, just the situation your in right now isn't one any of them can deal with at the moment.

If you do have a relationship with someone in ME 2, you cheated. I have a clean profile where I stuck with Liara, and one where I cheated with Tali:?. I expect severe consequences for acting unfaithfully. If there isn't any backfire other than a simple, "Well, I guess you've moved on Shepard" I'm gonna be angry. In real life cheating is a big deal. The same concept should be in ME 3.

Why people are so wierd about thinking their innocent for their actions is strange. Cheating is cheating. It's not good in real life, and it certainly isn't going to be easy in a game. Expect the worst people, and be glad Bioware ackowledges real life concepts.

[Nightwriter]

Maera Imrov wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

The people that cheated should pay for it. There needs to be consequences for your actions. You can't cheat, then say oh crap, I don't wanna pay for it now. That's not how life works.

What will happen to those that cheated? That's up to BioWare, but something needs to happen. Personally, I'd go so far as to say you should not only lose the ME1 LI as friend/squadmate, but your ME2 LI should be kind upset at you, for the fact you had someone else and cheated. They should question rather you're going to cheat on them next, making the romance start to come into question and be much harder to move forward.

How can it be cheating if I said it was over? I told both Kelly and Joker that I considered it finished. Ergo: I am not cheating. Just because the game itself gave me no option to go see Kaidan again and tell him so is irrelevant. In fact, the option should have been given. The only reason they should force a confrontation is if the player is wanting to/trying to keep both. But if I've told two people (and would've told Kaidan himself we were done) that we are done, why in the would should I be penalized?

The fact of the matter is that they just didn't put anything in ME2 for you to effectively end the romance through. No dialogue about them with the new LIs, no ability to respond/meet with the previous one to tell them it was over. Forcing it is poor form. In my 'canon', the Shep I have that had a ME1 romance, considers it done. Finished. She is not cheating. If Kaidan wants to think so, that's his problem. My main Shep, however, has no ME1 romance, and it's irrelevant.

I have decided I like you. You are my new favorite forumite.

Yes, this is exactly it, people. Not only did they not give me the option to break it off, they made me feel almost shepherded into "cheating" by the way the old LIs were handled, the way they acted.

I should've been given the choice.

[TheSixthghoul]

Let change this up a bit. What if you remain content (faithful) or don't and remain with Cerberus? How would this effect the Human relationships.

[Xaijin]

Ashley is prime Cerberus material, provided you can work the stick from her butt and replace it with Mein Kampf.

Kaid,... mmm no. Given his views and all the crap cerberus does in the the first and second game to biotics, no.

Modifié par Xaijin, 25 mars 2010 - 04:04 .