You are still missing the point. The Geth responded with what could be percieved as equal force in response to the Quarians attempting to snuff out Geth existence. It is "arguably" self defense. Does that mean I excuse it? No but the Quarians are just as guilty as the Geth in my opinion and the only reason they are seen in a more sympathetic light is that they are organic and they had their asses handed to them.Shandepared wrote...
Darht Jayder wrote...
There was no genocide in this case. Also I never excuse it for anyone. And lastly the quarians attempted that action first.
The slaughter of billions of innocent and defenseless men, women, and children is not genocide? If that's not genocide then genocide doesn't exist.
Quarians and a new World.
Débuté par
Lemonwizard
, mars 24 2010 01:58
#51
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:55
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Retour en haut
#52
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:56
The Angry One
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Shandepared wrote...
Darht Jayder wrote...
There was no genocide in this case. Also I never excuse it for anyone. And lastly the quarians attempted that action first.
The slaughter of billions of innocent and defenseless men, women, and children is not genocide? If that's not genocide then genocide doesn't exist.
The Geth didn't understand how organic society works.
You assume the Geth had any concept of civilians and children. The Geth are all equals who reach consensus. They may have assumed Quarians were the same. Only after centuries of studying organics do they now know about these things, and now they realise they went too far.
The point is the Quarians forced the hand of a newborn species that was confused and scared and happened to be armed.
#53
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:57
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Weiser_Cain wrote...
The emergence of the Geth should have been predicted. Instead of the migrant fleet the Quarians should have taken lifeless moons and built contained cities on and inside them. With the tech available in ME they could have terraformed a planet by now.
Terraforming costs major resources. Quarians are limited, putting their technological expertise into their own survival.
#54
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:58
uhdnrt
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Unless my math be off, the 17 million remaining Quarians out of the BILLIONS prior to the war is good evidence that the Geth nearly did genocide the Quarians.
They make Hitler and Stalin look like pansies.
They make Hitler and Stalin look like pansies.
Modifié par uhdnrt, 24 mars 2010 - 03:58 .
#55
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:01
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simply a reversal of fortunes.....the Geth would have been extinct if the Quarians had their way.uhdnrt wrote...
Unless my math be off, the 17 million remaining Quarians out of the BILLIONS prior to the war is good evidence that the Geth nearly did genocide the Quarians.
They make Hitler and Stalin look like pansies.
#56
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:01
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Darht Jayder wrote...
The Geth responded with what could be percieved as equal force in response to the Quarians attempting to snuff out Geth existence.
No, they did not. The geth wiped out more than 99% of the quarian species. The war was long and that the quarians took such heavy losses means they spent most of the time losing the war. The only quarians who survived were those who managed to flee. The geth slaughtered the quarians and took no quarter, no mercy.
You should consider enlisting in the Soviet Army.
Darht Jayder wrote...
Does that mean I excuse it?
Yes, you said it was justified and that means you condone it.
I would also argue that the game does not portray the quarians sympathetically. Any time the geth is brought up in relation to the quarians the player is encouraged to lecture them about their supposedly evil deeds.
People like you are easily manipulated.
#57
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:03
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The Angry One wrote...
Only after centuries of studying organics do they now know about these things, and now they realise they went too far.
Which reinfoces my point. I'm glad that I was able to get through to you and that we agree.
Wait, my gut tells me you didn't comprehend a single damn thing I said.
Crap.
#58
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:03
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No mercy huh? Funny how Legion's dialog implies that any attempts at peace were immediately squashed by the Quarians, who kept attacking any time they thought they could win.
#59
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:05
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Shandepared wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
Only after centuries of studying organics do they now know about these things, and now they realise they went too far.
Which reinfoces my point. I'm glad that I was able to get through to you and that we agree.
Wait, my gut tells me you didn't comprehend a single damn thing I said.
Crap.
What point? The fact that they went too far does not eliminate the point that they had a legitimate reason for doing so, more so because they simply weren't psychologically ready for such a thing.
It is still in the end the Quarian's fault for responding horribly to the situation and attempting genocide.
Modifié par The Angry One, 24 mars 2010 - 04:05 .
#60
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The Angry One wrote...
No mercy huh? Funny how Legion's dialog implies that any attempts at peace were immediately squashed by the Quarians, who kept attacking any time they thought they could win.
"Thought they could win," is important there.
#61
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:05
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What the Angry One said. From what the Geth know, the Quarians are incapable of tolerating their existence.
#62
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The Angry One wrote...
What point?
My point that the geth were probably not cognitively advanced enough to be negotiated with.
#63
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:06
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It's not exactly star trek but energy is virtually free in ME, the Quarians have some of the best technical expertise around Just building infrastructure with simple heavy mechs should be easy enough for a few quarians to set up, no advanced VI needed. If you could get robot that build other robots involved then one or two quarians getting the idea say 250 years ago could have a perfect, if sterile planet ready for colonization.monkeycamoran wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
The emergence of the Geth should have been predicted. Instead of the migrant fleet the Quarians should have taken lifeless moons and built contained cities on and inside them. With the tech available in ME they could have terraformed a planet by now.
Terraforming costs major resources. Quarians are limited, putting their technological expertise into their own survival.
#64
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:07
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Shandepared wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
No mercy huh? Funny how Legion's dialog implies that any attempts at peace were immediately squashed by the Quarians, who kept attacking any time they thought they could win.
"Thought they could win," is important there.
If you'll notice, the Quarians like to delude themselves.
Xen thinks a few AI tweaks will get her a personal army of killbots, Admiral Loghain (I forget his actual name) thinks he can smash a flotilla of civilian ships against the Geth and win. Tali's father thought he could play around with networked Geth.
So yes. I can fully believe that the Quarian's ancestors kept on fighting and thinking they'd win even as the Geth bombed their cities off the map. Because they are in fact that stupid.
#65
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:07
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But that's what Legion's point was about the Quarians, the Geth do not see the Quarians as capable of negotiating a peace, unless faced with annihalation.Shandepared wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
What point?
My point that the geth were probably not cognitively advanced enough to be negotiated with.
#66
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:08
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Shandepared wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
What point?
My point that the geth were probably not cognitively advanced enough to be negotiated with.
Why not? The Geth didn't understand certain things, but the Geth have always tried to.
The only reason they responded unilaterally is because the Quarians gave them no other choice. If the Quarians had acted at all like true "creators" as the Geth like to call them they would've helped the Geth understand, or at least tried to.
#67
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:09
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Weiser_Cain wrote...
If you could get robot that build other robots involved...
Yeah, I don't think the quarians would go for that.
#68
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:10
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The reason the council hasn't granted colonization rights to the quarians is because turians are on the council. Any planet that could support quarians would be perfect for the turians as well since d-amino ecosystems are so rare.
#69
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:10
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The Angry One wrote...
If the Quarians had acted at all like true "creators" as the Geth like to call them they would've helped the Geth understand, or at least tried to.
You keep looking at this with the benefit of hindsight.
Until you stop meta-gaming we can't have any meaningful discussion.
Modifié par Shandepared, 24 mars 2010 - 04:10 .
#70
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:12
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Solomen wrote...
The reason the council hasn't granted colonization rights to the quarians is because turians are on the council. Any planet that could support quarians would be perfect for the turians as well since d-amino ecosystems are so rare.
That's probably it. To even consider granting them a world the turians would likely demand that they become a client race. The quarians apparently value their independence.
#71
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:13
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Shandepared wrote...
You keep looking at this with the benefit of hindsight.
Until you stop meta-gaming we can't have any meaningful discussion.
That's not hindsight at all. That's common sense. You have millions of sapient machines who don't want to be turned off. The way they're designed there's no way you're going to find a magic off button and shut them down.
The logical thing to do is communicate with them because they're willing to communicate with you. The Geth didn't hide their awakening sapience, they didn't plan behind the scenes because the Cylon God told them to.
I can only conclude that the Quarians attacked out of pure bigotry and unreasonable fear.
#72
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:14
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apotheosic wrote...
this is a really good point... seriously, whats to stop them from doing that?kelyon wrote...
This all Quarian exile is a little odd.
The could colonize almost any habitable planet and live in their suits on a solid ground.
Then instead of worrying about ships failure, they could study how to boost their immune system.
I believe the problem is to find a planet that can support millions of inhabitants at once. It needs to have alot of resources, the right soil and the right atmoshere.
#73
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:14
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The whole storyline of the Quarian flotilla strikes me as a bit strange. As said by others, many times, there are many habitable planets the quarians could have at least tried to colonise. Also, they could live in their suits on the surface whilst adjusting to a new environment, as this would surely be better than trying to maintain ships and prevent failures in space? There is no sane reasoning whatsoever, as to why after 300 years, no colonisation (even a small trial) hasn't taken place? I think there must be some other agenda taking place onboard the flotilla?
#74
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:15
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The Angry One wrote...
Shandepared wrote...
You keep looking at this with the benefit of hindsight.
Until you stop meta-gaming we can't have any meaningful discussion.
That's not hindsight at all.
Yes. It is.
The quarians had no guarantee that the geth would stay peaceful. If they sat and waited, trying to talk to the geth, then more and more geth would keep waking up. As they woke up they'd get smarter, more organized. The quarians would quickly lose the option of first strike. In short order they'd be at the geth's mercy. That is asking a hell of a lot of the quarians, to risk their entire civilization, by putting it in the hands of millions of accidental A.I. .
Ironic that you'd call their entire race stupid.
#75
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 04:16
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Spuudle wrote...
The whole storyline of the Quarian flotilla strikes me as a bit strange. As said by others, many times, there are many habitable planets the quarians could have at least tried to colonise. Also, they could live in their suits on the surface whilst adjusting to a new environment, as this would surely be better than trying to maintain ships and prevent failures in space? There is no sane reasoning whatsoever, as to why after 300 years, no colonisation (even a small trial) hasn't taken place? I think there must be some other agenda taking place onboard the flotilla?
There is obviously an agenda among the admiralty.
Though it still doesn't explain why some captains haven't given the admirals the finger and gone off to colonise on their own.
Then again maybe some have, and we just don't know about it. I wouldn't imagine they'd be eager to publicise their location.
