465 réponses à ce sujet

[hex23]

Kalfear wrote...

The part where Bioware states ME1 was shooter first and RPG second!

Pretty simple, all the shooter fanatics make this claim so just make the link to where Bioware says Shooter dynamics more important then RPG dynamics in Mass Effect 1.

Im waiting

You don't need me to hold your hand, look at any of the interviews for "ME2". What do they talk about? How they perfected the shooter elements....how it's a lot closer to titles like "Gears Of War". I find it hard to believe you didn't see any of this, it was nonstop for about 12 months.

Did you play part 2? The whole entire game is Bioware's statement that it's a shooter first, RPG second. 90% of the reviews comparing it's game play to "Gears Of War" is a huge clue as well. Did they compare the game play to an RPG? Hell no. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp.

A dev video from 2006 show cased the squad based shooter game play from "ME1"....game play ideas they later perfected in "ME2". So like I said, the second game is how the first game was supposed to play.

http://www.youtube.c...gOcXeas#t=3m05s

Modifié par hex23, 26 mars 2010 - 05:12 .

[TJSolo]

hex23 wrote...
You don't need me to hold your hand, look at any of the interviews for "ME2". What do they talk about? How they perfected the shooter elements....how it's a lot closer to titles like "Gears Of War". I find it hard to believe you didn't see any of this, it was nonstop for about 12 months.

Did you play part 2? The whole entire game is Bioware's statement that it's a shooter first, RPG second. 90% of the reviews comparing it's game play to "Gears Of War" is a huge clue as well. Did they compare the game play to an RPG? Hell no. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp.

A dev video from 2006 show cased the squad based shooter game play from "ME1"....game play ideas they later perfected in "ME2". So like I said, the second game is how the first game was supposed to play.

http://www.youtube.c...gOcXeas#t=3m05s

What are you talking about? 
Watching the whole video, the first half covering RPG features first mind you. The tactics used in it were a showcase of how ME1s combat turned out. There were only 2 times a feature was shown that is not in ME1. The first would be individual team cover, although it was unclear if his command functioned individually or not. Also "cover" was just being behind an object.
The second feature shown is not even in either game is when he switched to control Garrus(the Tech) to down the shields on the Armature.

The video showcased the worlds and choices you could make, first and foremost. The shooter aspect was covered later and briefer.

[Hathur]

I'm and old-school, old-fart rpg gamer... Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 rank as one of my favorite rpgs of all time... I loved ME1.. immensely.



Yet I still feel ME2 was the better game. Better polish, good story, emotional moments... epic feel. ME1 had a lot of these too.. this doesn't diminish ME1... but I personally just felt ME2 took what ME1 did and did it all better.



Sure, ME2 has some shortcomings.. all games do, no game will be perfect... but all-in-all, it's the better game.



I think you're sugar coating how good ME1 was... I personally replayed ME1 right before playing ME2 ... and it was an amazing game... but it had plenty of shortcomings too... when I played ME2 and finished it (just days after beating ME1 for the 8th time in my life).. i felt ME2 was the better game.... the better RPG. (Anyone who thinks 'items' and 'loot' define a RPG is ignorant).



Time makes our fondness of things grow generally... but seriously, load up ME1 right now and play it for 20hrs + ... it feels inferior to ME2. It is NOT inferior.. it's still an amazing game... one of the best of all time in my books .... but it still feels inferior compared to ME2.



I have my issues with some of the design choices of ME2.. but it still ranks as one of my top 5 favorite games / rpg games of all time.

[ammit23]

I have to agree that ME1 was far superior as a story. ME2 was better looking/playing, but I never could get into the story or characters of ME2. Conversation with squad mates was about the same quantity in both games, but spread out across more squad mates in ME2 just made it have little or no impact for character development. ME1 combat and Mako driving did get repetitive but it didn't kill the story. Unfortunately, ME2 took the shooter elements and planet scanning to the next level which helped kill an otherwise mediocre story. The interrupt system in ME2 was a good idea, but failed to overcome the failings of an otherwise watered-down story. And WTH was thinking with that corny final boss in ME2??? Just because ME1 was a great story and ME2 was whiz-bang visually doesn't mean believability could be ignored.



As for LI, I played ME1 over and over and kept ending up with Liara even though I knew how it turned out, I just couldn't resist the character. On my last play of ME1 I actually had to force myself to go for Ash just to find out how it turned out and I was pleasantly surprised by that too. Meanwhile in ME2 I just randomly explored the possibilities in LI's since I didn't develop an attachment to any of them. The final mission in ME2 was also an experiment to me in finding out how to kill them off because it didn't make a difference to me if they were available for ME3.



And let's not forget Bioware/EA's decision to obviously hold back parts of ME2 so they could "generously" give them to us for free (meaning we already paid for it with purchase of game), then use that as a sales pitch only to wait 2 months before delivering everything that was promised pre-game launch - that finished of whatever loyalty or respect I had for the company.



I loved the experience of playing ME2 and I definitely don't regret buying it. But when it comes to ME3, I'll not only avoid pre-ordering, I'll wait until it's in the discount bin and the entire game is actually available as "DLC".

[Teknor]

Hathur wrote...

I'm and old-school, old-fart rpg gamer... Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 rank as one of my favorite rpgs of all time... I loved ME1.. immensely.

Yet I still feel ME2 was the better game. Better polish, good story, emotional moments... epic feel. ME1 had a lot of these too.. this doesn't diminish ME1... but I personally just felt ME2 took what ME1 did and did it all better.

Sure, ME2 has some shortcomings.. all games do, no game will be perfect... but all-in-all, it's the better game.

I think you're sugar coating how good ME1 was... I personally replayed ME1 right before playing ME2 ... and it was an amazing game... but it had plenty of shortcomings too... when I played ME2 and finished it (just days after beating ME1 for the 8th time in my life).. i felt ME2 was the better game.... the better RPG. (Anyone who thinks 'items' and 'loot' define a RPG is ignorant).

Time makes our fondness of things grow generally... but seriously, load up ME1 right now and play it for 20hrs + ... it feels inferior to ME2. It is NOT inferior.. it's still an amazing game... one of the best of all time in my books .... but it still feels inferior compared to ME2.

I have my issues with some of the design choices of ME2.. but it still ranks as one of my top 5 favorite games / rpg games of all time.

You are right.

[Phel Shepard]

Jeremy Shepherd wrote...

The OP has some pretty decent points, even if reiterated.

With ME1, as soon as I finished, I started again. I played ME over six times... Keep in mind, I wrote out the whole list of systems and planets so that I could do EVERYTHING. With ME2, even with the new DLC, I can't seem to force myself to play the game again... And I have tried 3 times, now. I DLed the Firewalker pack yesterday, and I haven't even bothered to check it out, yet.

I must agree with this post. As much as I like Bioware as a company, the reality is I can't get myself to replay the second one (missing many rpg elements that the first one had), and I replayed the first one four times IN A ROW. Now that's saying something about the difference between the two. 

Granted like to OP said, I love this game franchise and post this because I'm concerned not angry. Don't let EA ruin your IPs.

[Raphael diSanto]

Phel Shepard wrote...

Jeremy Shepherd wrote...

The OP has some pretty decent points, even if reiterated.

With ME1, as soon as I finished, I started again. I played ME over six times... Keep in mind, I wrote out the whole list of systems and planets so that I could do EVERYTHING. With ME2, even with the new DLC, I can't seem to force myself to play the game again... And I have tried 3 times, now. I DLed the Firewalker pack yesterday, and I haven't even bothered to check it out, yet.

I must agree with this post. As much as I like Bioware as a company, the reality is I can't get myself to replay the second one (missing many rpg elements that the first one had), and I replayed the first one four times IN A ROW. Now that's saying something about the difference between the two. 

Granted like to OP said, I love this game franchise and post this because I'm concerned not angry. Don't let EA ruin your IPs.

I play ME2 more often than ME1 because to me, it has MORE RPG elements.

Go figure.

[Kalfear]

hex23 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

The part where Bioware states ME1 was shooter first and RPG second!

Pretty simple, all the shooter fanatics make this claim so just make the link to where Bioware says Shooter dynamics more important then RPG dynamics in Mass Effect 1.

Im waiting

You don't need me to hold your hand, look at any of the interviews for "ME2". What do they talk about? How they perfected the shooter elements....how it's a lot closer to titles like "Gears Of War". I find it hard to believe you didn't see any of this, it was nonstop for about 12 months.

Did you play part 2? The whole entire game is Bioware's statement that it's a shooter first, RPG second. 90% of the reviews comparing it's game play to "Gears Of War" is a huge clue as well. Did they compare the game play to an RPG? Hell no. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp.

A dev video from 2006 show cased the squad based shooter game play from "ME1"....game play ideas they later perfected in "ME2". So like I said, the second game is how the first game was supposed to play.

http://www.youtube.c...gOcXeas#t=3m05s

What part of MASS EFFECT 1 dont you understand child?
So go hold something else of your own cause you aint getting those hands near my hands!

The statement was made that ME1 was a Shooter first and RPG second so show me the link to Bioware saying that or just admit you and yours full of caw caw and STFU!

Not indoendo that you readinging into and open for discussion. A Link on the Bioware site that says what you claiming!

We both know no link has ever existed

Get it?
Got it?
Good!

[spernus]

Kalfear wrote...

Notice he also doesnt mention the dozen or so websites that gave ME1 a 9.0 and ME2 a 6.7.

But thats the whole story with the fanboy crowd, they quote the bought and paid for reveiws like Game spot and ignore all the reveiws that didnt get free promotional content and bought and judged the game on its own merit as normal customers who paid for the product!

I fully agree All the usual big business web sites gave ME2 a great score, just like they do for every single game that BUYS ADVETISING SPACE and gives them access to interveiws and content!
I can name a boat load of crappy games these sites gave over 8.5 scores to, as can pretty much anyone else but hey, lets ignore all that if it promotes our minority opinion.

Im in minority Druss?? Welp we on the Mass Effect2 web site, prove it! Come on loud mouth, floors all yours, show me how the thousands upon thousands of negative posters manage to be the minority to the same vocal hundreads that loved the game!
I wont ask you to go anywhere else where the split only gets bigger and more vocal, show me the numbers on this very site!
I wont hold my breath cause unless you flat out lie(which based upon your scoring is possible) you will find the positive side is grossly out numbered by the negative reveiws! But hey, you want to waste time, go for it.

Quite frankly,you are overthinking nearly everything.

While it's true that game reviewing is biaised and probably afflicted by corruption,you don't seem to know who these reviewers are.

I'll tell you a secret: most game critic are casual gamers or semi-hardcore.They aren't the most skilled gamer or adept of rpg to begin with and you would be shocked to learn that a lot of them probably couldn't care less about a good story in their rpg.I am sure that the vast majority of them never played the old baldur's gate or planescape:torment.

These mainstream critics usually love polish and production value,which has been a trademark of console gaming.Modern wrpg are inferior on nearly every account,but they are more polished and benefit from higher production values and just look at that: most of the best rated wrpg are from Bioware or Bethesda (KOTOR,ME 2,Oblivion and Fallout 3).

Mianstream critics don't need to be paid to love Mass effect 2 or Fallout 3 over ME and the older Fallout,they have pretty conventional taste in gaming.

Heck,most game critics are incapable of playing Street fighter or Virtual fighter above a sub par level and they still pretend to know what they are talking about. It's why a game which has passed the test of time like 3rd strike got decent review and another which is outdated like Soul Calibur is still at 96 on metacritic or something.

Modifié par spernus, 26 mars 2010 - 08:01 .

[Blunt 7rauma]

 I was actually pretty happy with ME2 and that was with a great deal of concern over the hype in the months before release.  All the stuff on IGN about ME2 and the fact that EA now owns Bioware really did worry me initially, but as far as the ratings go, I don't think they are all that inaccurate.  I mean sure, you don't get xbox360 ratings from xbox magazine, but most of the time I feel you can get a good idea of how good a game is from any of the major gaming sites and if you aren't sure, check metacritic.  And, hey, if you still are unsure about the quality of a game, wait a few months and buy it used.

[Kalfear]

why do shooter kids keep writing novels im not going to read



just show the link to back up your statement or shut up



its simple and basic.

put up or shut up



think on that

[FataliTensei]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's be honest, DreDk.

Different people enjoy different aspects of games. It is impossible to please everyone all the time. Sometimes you will agree with our decisions and love the game we release, sometimes you won't. Is it impossible for us to predict what you as an individual will and won't enjoy, and it is a little misguided to believe that a) we can cater our games to individual gamers' tastes and preferences, and that you have to like everything we do.

I'm sorry you don't feel ME2 was as good as ME1. Perhaps you will like future products better.

But you did do some catering with ME2, to the shooter demographic

[RyrineaNara]

I'm a Shooter fan, and a RPG fan. I don't get the hate for the shooter genre from some of you hardcore Rpgers.

I loved both game, and still don't see the Shooter part of the two games in them.. There was more combat in this game, but we're  in a SCI FI game. I'd expect there too be a lots of combat in a SCI FI game. Not all RPG's have to do with loot. It's taken a role of a character, and molding what that character does to be honest.

Modifié par RyrineaNara, 26 mars 2010 - 08:48 .

[Tazzmission]

Hathur wrote...

I'm and old-school, old-fart rpg gamer... Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 rank as one of my favorite rpgs of all time... I loved ME1.. immensely.

Yet I still feel ME2 was the better game. Better polish, good story, emotional moments... epic feel. ME1 had a lot of these too.. this doesn't diminish ME1... but I personally just felt ME2 took what ME1 did and did it all better.

Sure, ME2 has some shortcomings.. all games do, no game will be perfect... but all-in-all, it's the better game.

I think you're sugar coating how good ME1 was... I personally replayed ME1 right before playing ME2 ... and it was an amazing game... but it had plenty of shortcomings too... when I played ME2 and finished it (just days after beating ME1 for the 8th time in my life).. i felt ME2 was the better game.... the better RPG. (Anyone who thinks 'items' and 'loot' define a RPG is ignorant).

Time makes our fondness of things grow generally... but seriously, load up ME1 right now and play it for 20hrs + ... it feels inferior to ME2. It is NOT inferior.. it's still an amazing game... one of the best of all time in my books .... but it still feels inferior compared to ME2.

I have my issues with some of the design choices of ME2.. but it still ranks as one of my top 5 favorite games / rpg games of all time.

this is by the the best post ive seen on the boards and quoted for the truth

[Kalfear]

RyrineaNara wrote...

I'm a Shooter fan, and a RPG fan. I don't get the hate for the shooter genre from some of you hardcore Rpgers.

I loved both game, and still don't see the Shooter part of the two games in them.. There was more combat in this game, but we're  in a SCI FI game. I'd expect there too be a lots of combat in a SCI FI game. Not all RPG's have to do with loot. It's taken a role of a character, and molding what that character does to be honest.

Well I dont think your being honest first off!
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that Shooters and RPGs are at opposite ends of the development spectrum so its easy for REAL RPG fans to understand why they wouldnt want a RPG with shooter dynamics (ME1) turned into a Shooter with a linear story (ME2).

Also, not one RPGer has complained there combat in ME1 or 2.

Quite frankly, I dont understand why you would post as you clearly cant be bothered to read and learn what the complaints are about (no Im not going to tell you, go READ UP for yourself).

Suffice to say, REAL RPG fans understand the problems with ME2 and why they dont like some of it!

Saying your a RPG fan doesnt make it so!

PS: As I figured, no link from the liars about this being a Shooter first RPG second according to Bioware. Just more lies from the shooter fanatics and RPG haters. Does this nonsence ever end and do these people ever simply tell the truth on ANY topic?

Modifié par Kalfear, 27 mars 2010 - 09:19 .

[Splortched]

Kalfear wrote...

Well I dont think your being honest first off!
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that Shooters and RPGs are at opposite ends of the development spectrum so its easy for REAL RPG fans to understand why they wouldnt want a RPG with shooter dynamics (ME1) turned into a Shooter with a linear story (ME2).

Agreed 100%

[Vena_86]

ME2 could have been a great RPG and a great shooter. It is a good shooter and a "goodish" RPG.

The problem is that BioWare didnt make the franchise more attractive to players which didnt like it before while maintaining the things that players who actually did like the first game grew fond of. Instead they just went for the highest bidder (casual shooter players), leaving the real fans standing in the rain.
It is just a shame that a franchise which could enable people that value immersion to explore the galaxy is turned into a CoD in space with (inferior) Gears cover system. Shooting through corridor levels, one at a time does not really live up to the potential of the franchise.

I am a long time shooter fan, but when I want to play a shooter then I play CoD, GoW, Crysis, UT, Quake etc.
Mass Effect could offer something which these mainstream shooters can not. The first game showed the potential but was still far away from reaching it (also pretty small, often linear levels, bad looting inventory system, only little party banter), the sequel even took several steps back from freely exploring a rich galaxy within a deep storyline with interesting characters towards something which the market is oversaturated with already.

The reason why RPGs dont seem to be benefitial anymore is because RPG players dont get what they want anymore and thus refrain from buying since most RPGs these days are watered down and simplified for the short attention-span teenager. 
But when something like The Witcher comes along, a true RPG for adults then it sells +1.5 million copies on a dying platform (PC) only.
People dont want a little of this, and a little of that, they want something to be really fleshed out and live up to the potential.

Modifié par Vena_86, 27 mars 2010 - 11:21 .

[exxxed]

I just realized what the whole problem of shooter vs rpg "war" is, which is the fact that when someone states he wants the RPG elements the first one had every shooter fan jumps him like flies, when in fact the poster who stated about RPG elements actually means he wants the immersion mechanics the first game had, you know? Open planets, large hubs, elevators, Normandy's airlock, economy system, even some loot and inventory etc. Elements which the sequel lacked big time, being more concentrated on combat over immersion which is one of the key reasons everything became so linear and uninteresting.



Take care guys!

[MajikMan77]

Jeremy Shepherd wrote...

The OP has some pretty decent points, even if reiterated.

With ME1, as soon as I finished, I started again. I played ME over six times... Keep in mind, I wrote out the whole list of systems and planets so that I could do EVERYTHING. With ME2, even with the new DLC, I can't seem to force myself to play the game again... And I have tried 3 times, now. I DLed the Firewalker pack yesterday, and I haven't even bothered to check it out, yet.

Total opposite for me. I pre-ordered ME on the Xbox and the experience on the Citadel was such a grinding chore that I stopped playing the game.

ME2 pre-ordered (the improvements to the controls alone sold it for me) and I completed my first run with I dare say the bulk of players that first week. Instantly replayed my game and then with a new character class. Only then did I start ME on the PC so I could try the import option in ME2.

Now I can clearly see the differences and how each game works off each other - ME to me is not the better game but it is a more broad game since (so far) ME2 is strictly all about form team and save the day in a galaxy you now know more about, having done ME.

Both are great experiences and I eagerly await ME3.

[FataliTensei]

RyrineaNara wrote...

I'm a Shooter fan, and a RPG fan. I don't get the hate for the shooter genre from some of you hardcore Rpgers.

I loved both game, and still don't see the Shooter part of the two games in them.. There was more combat in this game, but we're  in a SCI FI game. I'd expect there too be a lots of combat in a SCI FI game. Not all RPG's have to do with loot. It's taken a role of a character, and molding what that character does to be honest.

Oh I don't hate shooters, I like them, what I don't like is the shooter demographic changing a game that had a few clunky mechanics that needed to be refined, but otherwise was a great hybrid of RPG and shooter, and taking that and making it almost just like any other third person shooter in combat and the stripping down fun RPG elements that while they needed some refining, were not hard to manage or work with and that lazy shooter fans didn't want to deal with them complained enough to make the changes happen

[Onyx Jaguar]

Kalfear wrote...

RyrineaNara wrote...

I'm a Shooter fan, and a RPG fan. I don't get the hate for the shooter genre from some of you hardcore Rpgers.

I loved both game, and still don't see the Shooter part of the two games in them.. There was more combat in this game, but we're  in a SCI FI game. I'd expect there too be a lots of combat in a SCI FI game. Not all RPG's have to do with loot. It's taken a role of a character, and molding what that character does to be honest.

Well I dont think your being honest first off!
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that Shooters and RPGs are at opposite ends of the development spectrum so its easy for REAL RPG fans to understand why they wouldnt want a RPG with shooter dynamics (ME1) turned into a Shooter with a linear story (ME2).

Also, not one RPGer has complained there combat in ME1 or 2.

Quite frankly, I dont understand why you would post as you clearly cant be bothered to read and learn what the complaints are about (no Im not going to tell you, go READ UP for yourself).

Suffice to say, REAL RPG fans understand the problems with ME2 and why they dont like some of it!

Saying your a RPG fan doesnt make it so!

PS: As I figured, no link from the liars about this being a Shooter first RPG second according to Bioware. Just more lies from the shooter fanatics and RPG haters. Does this nonsence ever end and do these people ever simply tell the truth on ANY topic?

I echo RyineaNara sentiments, also

Morrowind > Bioware RPGS, imo.  If you are going to do something you do it right.

[Kalfear]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

RyrineaNara wrote...

I'm a Shooter fan, and a RPG fan. I don't get the hate for the shooter genre from some of you hardcore Rpgers.

I loved both game, and still don't see the Shooter part of the two games in them.. There was more combat in this game, but we're  in a SCI FI game. I'd expect there too be a lots of combat in a SCI FI game. Not all RPG's have to do with loot. It's taken a role of a character, and molding what that character does to be honest.

Well I dont think your being honest first off!
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that Shooters and RPGs are at opposite ends of the development spectrum so its easy for REAL RPG fans to understand why they wouldnt want a RPG with shooter dynamics (ME1) turned into a Shooter with a linear story (ME2).

Also, not one RPGer has complained there combat in ME1 or 2.

Quite frankly, I dont understand why you would post as you clearly cant be bothered to read and learn what the complaints are about (no Im not going to tell you, go READ UP for yourself).

Suffice to say, REAL RPG fans understand the problems with ME2 and why they dont like some of it!

Saying your a RPG fan doesnt make it so!

PS: As I figured, no link from the liars about this being a Shooter first RPG second according to Bioware. Just more lies from the shooter fanatics and RPG haters. Does this nonsence ever end and do these people ever simply tell the truth on ANY topic?

I echo RyineaNara sentiments, also

Morrowind > Bioware RPGS, imo.  If you are going to do something you do it right.

Totally disagree

I like having substance and a real storyline in my games.

Morrowind was just wander around doing basically nothing!

I got seriously bored of game after completeing first city and tossed game away myself! One of the worst RPGs I ever played. But at least you could call Morrowind a RPG, you still played a role and a character rather then character playing you. Not like that garbage called Fall Out 3.

Bioware minus ME2 has the best RPGs with out doubt. Strongest stories, best enviroments, best graphics, best everything!

If I want to wander aimlessly ill go play SWG or some trash game like that.

[Onyx Jaguar]

No I'll just play Morrowind

*pops it in*

Indeed

Also Graphically ehhh, sure why not.  Bethesda's current engine looks like crap in comparison, the models and animation do anyway.

Also improving your character in games like Fallout 3 and the Elder Scrolls games is quite a bit more involved than KOTOR/DA/ME/Jade Empire, so if you are looking for story, Bethesda's games suck something awful, but the systems in place are quite complex.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 27 mars 2010 - 03:17 .

[ImperialOperative]

Kalfear wrote...

Totally disagree

I like having substance and a real storyline in my games.

Morrowind was just wander around doing basically nothing!

I got seriously bored of game after completeing first city and tossed game away myself! One of the worst RPGs I ever played. But at least you could call Morrowind a RPG, you still played a role and a character rather then character playing you. Not like that garbage called Fall Out 3.

Bioware minus ME2 has the best RPGs with out doubt. Strongest stories, best enviroments, best graphics, best everything!

If I want to wander aimlessly ill go play SWG or some trash game like that.

So basically you hate everything except for a few games.

Enjoyment, that is one thing I don't want in my life!

hx4r elite RPG player, we bow to your might

Modifié par ImperialOperative, 27 mars 2010 - 03:22 .

[1Parmenides]

Lot of whiners came to the forums when Oblivion first came out. But now that it's an old game, it's a pleasant crowd.



This forum will settle down after a while.