465 réponses à ce sujet

[III Mav III]

This argument is so pointless, whether you agree or not...Mass Effect 2 was a roaring success, critically acclaimed, sold very well and its probably on course to be at least nominated for plenty of awards and the end of the year.



With this in my mind Bioware will consider it a true success and will make Mass Effect 3 more like 2 than 1.



If you don't like this then I'm afraid you are out of luck, you will either have to begrudgingly continue on with the series or place your hard earned cash elsewhere. Because to claim that the game is a failure is just ridiculous, while it is sad that Mass Effect isn't what you want it to be or maybe even what the majority of the Bioware community wanted, it is what the gaming community as a whole wanted. That translates as a success in any language.



You may have noticed I haven't mentioned any of my opinions here because I didn't want people to dismiss my argument as a fanboy one way or the other, i have tried to deal with just facts.

[TJSolo]

III Mav III wrote...

If you don't like this then I'm afraid you are out of luck, you will either have to begrudgingly continue on with the series or place your hard earned cash elsewhere. Because to claim that the game is a failure is just ridiculous, while it is sad that Mass Effect isn't what you want it to be or maybe even what the majority of the Bioware community wanted, it is what the gaming community as a whole wanted. That translates as a success in any language.

Success or not. Bioware has admited that they are open to change and refinement of their products through the use of input, like this board.
ME2 was overtweaked in terms of cutting out RPG elements. Bioware has stated that as a goal for ME3 more RPG elements will be added. What those will be have not been mentioned.
ME2 was barebones and highly polished. The latter leading to some people being blind to the former.

[Darth Drago]

TJSolo wrote...

III Mav III wrote...

If you don't like this then I'm afraid you are out of luck, you will either have to begrudgingly continue on with the series or place your hard earned cash elsewhere. Because to claim that the game is a failure is just ridiculous, while it is sad that Mass Effect isn't what you want it to be or maybe even what the majority of the Bioware community wanted, it is what the gaming community as a whole wanted. That translates as a success in any language.

Success or not. Bioware has admited that they are open to change and refinement of their products through the use of input, like this board.
ME2 was overtweaked in terms of cutting out RPG elements. Bioware has stated that as a goal for ME3 more RPG elements will be added. What those will be have not been mentioned.
ME2 was barebones and highly polished. The latter leading to some people being blind to the former.

-The real question is how many people will blindly buy Mass Effect 3 now?
Especially after reading how it is also intended to be a stand alone game just like ME2.

[warlorejon]

Mass Effect 3 is no longer a day 1 purchase for me, that is sad.

[Katya Nadanova]

Inarborat wrote...

I don't know why I come here sometimes...

That.  I can't even think of anything else to say.  That just sums up my feelings exactly.

[MrNose]

Darth Drago wrote...

-The real question is how many people will blindly buy Mass Effect 3 now?
Especially after reading how it is also intended to be a stand alone game just like ME2.

I'll definitely buy it, I need an ending, but I don't like the standalone thing at all.  It's so disappointing to hear that! 

Please...  Tell me who it is that thinks "standalone" is a good idea?  The problem with this is that it's not a true trilogy if they're only "thematically similar."  Take three James Bond movies where Spectre is the main bad guy, you can't call them a trilogy.  I really want a stellar plot to give Shepard the exit he or she deserves!

TJSolo wrote...

Success or not. Bioware has admited that
they are open to change and refinement of their products through the use
of input, like this board.
ME2
was barebones and highly polished. The latter leading to some people
being blind to the former.

"Barebones and highly polished" is a great descriptions!  I love that BioWare looks for feedback for their games though.

[MrNose]

warlorejon wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is no longer a day 1 purchase for me, that is sad.

I said I would definitely buy it, but day 1 I'm not sure about.  I will pay attention to the reviews.  If they're middling I'll buy it later.  If they're poor I'll stick to fond memories.

[Darth Drago]

MrNose wrote...

warlorejon wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is no longer a day 1 purchase for me, that is sad.

I said I would definitely buy it, but day 1 I'm not sure about.  I will pay attention to the reviews.  If they're middling I'll buy it later.  If they're poor I'll stick to fond memories.

Unfortunately you cant trust the reviews. Look at all the high score they gave Mass Effect 2. To me they were way to high for a choppy game that to me felt rushed and incomplete.

I will not buy ME3 until I know for a fact its worth the $60 for a new copy. I may end up doing something I have never done before with a game made from a company I used to really trust their quality from and rent it first. At any rate if its another let down like ME2 was for me I will buy it, it will just take a few years when its marked down to $20.

Screw me over once, shame on you.
Screw me over twice, shame on me.

Modifié par Darth Drago, 19 avril 2010 - 02:48 .

[MrNose]

Darth Drago wrote...

MrNose wrote...

warlorejon wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is no longer a day 1 purchase for me, that is sad.

I said I would definitely buy it, but day 1 I'm not sure about.  I will pay attention to the reviews.  If they're middling I'll buy it later.  If they're poor I'll stick to fond memories.

Unfortunately you cant trust the reviews. Look at all the high score they gave Mass Effect 2. To me they were way to high for a choppy game that to me felt rushed and incomplete.

I will not buy ME3 until I know for a fact its worth the $60 for a new copy. I may end up doing something I have never done before with a game made from a company I used to really trust their quality from and rent it first. At any rate if its another let down like ME2 was for me I will buy it, it will just take a few years when its marked down to $20.

Screw me over once, shame on you.
Screw me over twice, shame on me.

To me ME2 was still a good game though, it was simply flawed.  If I didn't like it I wouldn't be playing through it again right now.  For all its flaws I loved the adventure.  I would pay $60 for it again.  My disappointment for the game comes because I  have it set to such a high standard. 

That said, ME2 got away with what ME3 cannot.  Endings are the most important part of a story for me. 

. 
There are a few gaming sites that I really respect, two of which don't give scores.  I'll read what they have to say before makig my decision.

Modifié par MrNose, 19 avril 2010 - 03:32 .

[Bigdoser]

III Mav III wrote...

This argument is so pointless, whether you agree or not...Mass Effect 2 was a roaring success, critically acclaimed, sold very well and its probably on course to be at least nominated for plenty of awards and the end of the year.

With this in my mind Bioware will consider it a true success and will make Mass Effect 3 more like 2 than 1.

If you don't like this then I'm afraid you are out of luck, you will either have to begrudgingly continue on with the series or place your hard earned cash elsewhere. Because to claim that the game is a failure is just ridiculous, while it is sad that Mass Effect isn't what you want it to be or maybe even what the majority of the Bioware community wanted, it is what the gaming community as a whole wanted. That translates as a success in any language.

You may have noticed I haven't mentioned any of my opinions here because I didn't want people to dismiss my argument as a fanboy one way or the other, i have tried to deal with just facts.

This. Bioware can't please everyone.

[BellatrixLugosi]

They pleased me, but then again im just not that hard to displease with games. It gets me out of this boring reality and puts me in space, and I can shoot things.....I be happy

[Darth Drago]

True ME2 is still a good game, but not as great as it should have been.

I still think, no scratch that, I know that I get more thrill out of playing ME1 than ME2 just because of all the variety on things I can do on a single mission. The game has a more of a “wow” factor as well just look at almost any planets sky. There is nothing that even comes close to how Virmire ends in ME2 or the shock at running into, almost literally your first thresher maw either.

What carries over into ME2 from your decisions in ME1 are not impressive at all even the cameo appearances seem almost forced on you in how they are placed in your path. Not like you actually had much choice in any path you take. The emails are nice but lack any substance or sense of feeling when all they are are text notes. The big ones like who leads the council if you chose to let the original one die is a joke really. As is the fact that no one in C-Sec knows what a Geth looks like even though they are sighted from time to time and there were a lot of witnesses who saw them in ME1. Apparently the craze of video taping anything died out decades ago huh?

*Sory some of that was ment for another thread but i'll leave it in since i'm to tired to do any more editing...*

Modifié par Darth Drago, 19 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[NoBrandOnMe]

@OP - I completely agree with nearly everything you stated..

@Stanley Woo - Were not asking you to cater to individuals..were asking you to cater to what used to be the majority of your fanbase and what you provided before. ME2 is a great game don't get me wrong..It just doesn't even compare to the epic feeling it's original provides.

[Arturia Pendragon]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's be honest, DreDk.

Different people enjoy different aspects of games. It is impossible to please everyone all the time. Sometimes you will agree with our decisions and love the game we release, sometimes you won't. Is it impossible for us to predict what you as an individual will and won't enjoy, and it is a little misguided to believe that a) we can cater our games to individual gamers' tastes and preferences, and that you have to like everything we do.

I'm sorry you don't feel ME2 was as good as ME1. Perhaps you will like future products better.

Let's be honest, Mr. Woo.

Compared to past BioWare products, Mass Effect 2 is a sham. After finishing my first playthrough, I felt like I was the victim of a con-job, like I bought a SonMay counterfeit CD. It looks like a BioWare product, but it doesn't play like one. It's more like a reskinned Gears of War with the Mass Effect universe stapled on, a shallow shooter with a very weak storyline as a backdrop. BioWare fans have come to expect a much higher quality gaming experience from your company, something ME2 fails to deliver. While your newer customers might simply forgive and forget, your long-time fans will see this game as a black mark on BioWare's record, right next to Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood.

This is, of course, my opinion.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Vena_86 wrote...

Making a target-audience switch with a sequel will always result in people beeing dissappointed, more so than with independent franchises. It is one thing to make a sequel more attractive for a bigger audience but its another thing to concentrate on that new audience completely and forget about the existing one, the fans. And the real Mass Effect fans are mostly not hardcore shooter players. Since ME1 shooter combat was not that well developed, those people that really enjoyed the game loved other things about it then the shooting aspects. And most of these other things are inferior represented in the sequel, namely immersion, story, exploration, character progression, freedom. 

Not only that the improved combat could have been done without sacrificing the mentioned aspects (which I would have loved) but so drasticly changing the design focus for a sequel will naturally result in a lot of dissappointed and for the futur turned off fans, which are those people that brought you where you are now with their support.

When I want to listen to classical music then I listen to Vivaldi when I want to listen to Metal then I listen to All Shall Perish (or others). If All Shall Perish release a classical album everyone will hate it, if a lost metal album of Vivaldi will be discovered (lol)  then it wont really be well precieved, no matter how good they are individually.

ratzerman wrote...

Shepard spends the whole game running around, solving everyone else's personal problems.  But since they all clam up after their loyalty missions, you're left feeling used.

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

Let's be honest, Mr. Woo.

Compared to past BioWare products, Mass Effect 2 is a sham. After finishing my first playthrough, I felt like I was the victim of a con-job, like I bought a SonMay counterfeit CD. It looks like a BioWare product, but it doesn't play like one. It's more like a reskinned Gears of War with the Mass Effect universe stapled on, a shallow shooter with a very weak storyline as a backdrop. BioWare fans have come to expect a much higher quality gaming experience from your company, something ME2 fails to deliver. While your newer customers might simply forgive and forget, your long-time fans will see this game as a black mark on BioWare's record, right next to Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood.

This is, of course, my opinion.

I'm SkullandBonesMember, and these are my favorite posts in the thread.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 19 avril 2010 - 05:45 .

[Shockwave81]

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm sorry you don't feel ME2 was as good as ME1. Perhaps you will like future products better.

That's assuming that some of us will actually bother purchasing future products. 

Played Gears of War 2 for the first time this weekend, now THAT'S a shooter - heart-racing action, head shots that actually decapitate your enemies...Epic really know how to work the Unreal Engine (not surprising really). ME2 just tries so hard to be something it shouldn't be.

BioWare should just stick to what they do best, which by most accounts, is crafting wonderful RPG experiences. 

I can't get over how different ME2 feels from ME1. I always got a warm fuzzy feeling when the start screen appeared and that music started to play...then when I heard it again later in game...all kinds of awesome.

Nothing like it in ME2 unfortunately. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

Gears of War 2 was crap. If you want to play good shooters play the first Gears of War or a Rainbow Six game.

[Shockwave81]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Gears of War 2 was crap. If you want to play good shooters play the first Gears of War or a Rainbow Six game.

Played the first Gears of War many moons ago - also thoroughly enjoyed that .

Point I was trying to make is that ME2 comes off looking cheap by comparison - only my opinion of course. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

Personally I find ME 2 much more intense than Gears of War 2. Much of Gears of War 2 is set pieces and randomness. Outside of the research mansion (or whatever that was) and the ending segment before you jump on the Brumak, the game was pretty much on rails. Not counting the couple parts where the game actually did turn into an on the rail shooter.

[Shockwave81]

Hahah, indeed it does. I'm not a shooter fanboy by any stretch, but at least in GOW you actually spend the majority of the game fighting your true enemies - not hordes of Mercs and Mechs with the main antagonists being kept back for scripted moments.



In ME1 players have the option of fighting the Geth on many occasions, which kept my main foe in full focus, and actually gave weight to the side quests. It didn't feel like I was in two different universes, or like I was wasting time.



I don't think there's a single side quest in ME2 that allows you to see the Collectors' handy work, let alone have an actual battle with them.

[Brako Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's be honest, DreDk.

Different people enjoy different aspects of games. It is impossible to please everyone all the time. Sometimes you will agree with our decisions and love the game we release, sometimes you won't. Is it impossible for us to predict what you as an individual will and won't enjoy, and it is a little misguided to believe that a) we can cater our games to individual gamers' tastes and preferences, and that you have to like everything we do.

I'm sorry you don't feel ME2 was as good as ME1. Perhaps you will like future products better.

They say that people don't like change, but I think gamers actually fear it.

The thing with video games like Mass Effect. Is when the gamers truly fall in love with the first game, you can bet there will be a huge wait for the sequal. During this 2-3 year gap, gamers (including myself) let our creative brains work into overdrive on what we hope to see in the sequal.

The thing we gamers forget, is that our creative minds are free of budget and if and when we share our ideas on forums such as this. We are lucky if 5 people like the ideas that you have. We are free from budget, we have 2 years just to imagine what we want. But most importantly, we have 2 years to create our own perfect game from the ideas created by the developers in the first place.


Does Mass Effect 2 have a dull story like has been mentioned in this thread? Fudge no!
Its possibly the best video game story or sci-fi that I have seen for 20 or so years. I would be really happy for the writters at BioWare if they won a Bafta for there skills...but not surprised. Truly amazing writting.

Would I have done things differentley? Yes and No. 99% of the gamers on here are massive RPG only fans. We need hundreds of side missions and minigames to truly make a great game. Why wouldn't I change things? Because Mass Effect 2 is still an amazing game to be in, plus we have no idea on what the devs have for us in Mass Effect 3.


Mr Woo said it perfectly.

Devs cannot build a game that everyone will be 100% happy with, even there most loved fans will find things they would have done differently.

But lets give the developers a huge amount of thanks here. These are the guys that sat in there bedrooms as kids and dreamt of someday making video games for the world to enjoy. These kids eventually all came together and formed BioWare, and if any gamer had any sense, they would give BioWare there infinite appreciation for making some of the best games the gaming industry has ever seen.

I ain't no kiss arse. I just give credit to talent when its due.

Many thanks for all the games you have released on the 360, BioWare. There has not been a title of yours that I haven't spent less than 100 hours playing.

[Satanicfirewraith]

DreDk wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the TRUE Masterpiece.

Mass Effect 2 is a good game that due much of its glory exclusively to the first episode: beacuse, as a stand alone game, ME2 is only a very bland and monotone shooter with unuseful dialogues.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW that our love for the second one came mainly from the HERITAGE that ME1 has leave to us.

And please Bioware do not compare ME2 to Empire Strike Back,  it would be better if you compare it to The Phantom Menace.

ME1 is a work of love for Xbox360 (with some flaws).
ME2 is only a good
multiplatform game (I am more than sure that it will come out also for the PS3):
ME2
just performs ZERO OPTIMIZATION for the Xbox360: it just use the
last hiteration of Unreal Engine as it is.
Where is the anti
aliasing? Where is the motion Blur? Why ALL the
in-game texts are UNREADABLE?
Ok, the frame rate now is stable, and there are no clipping anymore... But I am quite sure that ME2 achive all of this only thanks to the last progress made by the Unreal Engine itself!!!
And how they solve the infamous elevator scenes problems: just
replaced it with loading screens...

My ideal Mass Effect 2 would have been the first one without texture clipping and frame rate issue (and maybe a better inventory system).

And what we have now instead? A bland shooter with:
No more RPG elements
No more intriguing
Story
No more intriguing quests
No more explorations
No more deep interaction with life-like characters
No more
vast area to play (like citadel)
No more "realistic" location (for example: citadel in ME1seems full of life..)

Furthermore, ME2 is such an inferior Cinematic Experience:
-) missions
screens,
-) loading screens,
-) areas that become unplayable soon after you have finished a mission (some time with sudden "jumps" back to Normandy or the magical "press B" to end mission ),
-) No more direct passage between ship and land/planets,
-) Many many super short and super linear level with nothing to do (except shoot...)
-) Space "cut scenes" that are rendered with a different style
-) The impossbility to talk to your fellows during the missions
-) Less inspired design
-) Inferior cinematic-visual appeal (no anti-aliasing & no motion blur & different grain filter).

And what has happend to the epic wonderful soundtrack?!?! Considering that it is created by the same people who created the first one, the only reason for such difference is that Bioware/EA leave a very short amount of time to the composers to create the music (or a shorter budget...)...

Also the characters and their dialogues seem to be less deep and efficient. And also their moods, motivations (etc..) are so weak...
Just consider the re-union scenes with Liara, Tali or Wrex. Very badly
written!
This time around all the character seems just lone puppets (not aware of what happend araund them) that are poor interpreters of a very limited and confined "dialogue tree". No progression in them, no evolution, no adaption to the plot (well actually, which is the plot?).

My only deep concern here is that usually the second episode of a trilogy is the most important one in terms of plot and storyline...
With ME2 the guys of the Bioware seems to have just finished their ideas!!!

But what the hell is happened to Bioware in the last 2/3 year?Have you spent all this time to convert ME2 to PS3?!?

Considering that ME2 came from  the same Company that has gives us so many MASTERPIECE, I just came to think that maybe all the problems here came directly from EA.
It is THE EA EFFETC?
Just considering what is happened with Dragon Age (A PC-game brutally ported in "some way" on the consoles) maybe this is the case...

But I do not understand why EA keep following bad business decision!!! The NEW-EA is still the OLD EA!!!
With ME2 everything seems to point out that EA just want to use the prestige and the heritage of ME Brand in order to make a mass marekt game. EA STILL follow short time sales!!!!
The problem is that If ME3 will be like ME2... well, Mass Effect brand will have a certain death!
Is it possible that no one can understand that?
It is sad to said that but, following this path, in the long period also Bioware will have a certain death!
And un fortunatelly this has already happened many time in the past under EA!

Please Bioware do not let EA rape and waste your IPs!
Please Bioware do not let EA rape and waste your IDENTITY!
Please Bioware do not let EA rape and waste your CORE BASE!

If is it true that Bioware listen to their fan, I really hope this time they will be able not only to listen but ALSO to UNDERSTAND what their fans are telling them!

Sorry for my English (I am Italian)
Sorry if I was too Hard with you.
I have deeply loved your game, I really hope that I will able love them also in the future.

Good luck!

FL


P.s.: This sentence from Mrs Christina Norman has really worried me:
“Fans complaining (About lack of RPG experience in ME2) is a small
percentage of the overall post (In the Bioware forums)” ...

YES! I agree 10000000000000000000000%
ME 2 is a weak ass shooter.... Almost no rpg aspect and little replay value as the story barly changes depending on your decisions.
Its very sad, I loved ME 1, flaws and all. Replayed i many many times. I beat ME 2 once, and find myself with no desire to bother to replay it as bad as it was. The animations for shep, and the graphics were really the only good things about ME 2. The rest was dumbed down and then blended up and then watered down even more.

[MisterMonkeyBanana]

Shockwave81 wrote...

BioWare should just stick to what they do best, which by most accounts, is crafting wonderful RPG experiences. 

See I disagree, I like that they were trying new things with ME2, rather than making the same old game again and again. Which is a very common complaint about Bioware games itself - that they stick to their formula of Intro bit -> go to these four places! -> plot twist -> end game. With age-old inventory mechanics and thirty skills in which only four are useful.

ME2 wasn't perfect, but I will never agree with anyone who thinks that Bioware should just rehash BG2 or Kotor again and again (unless it's making a new NWN themselves, in which case I will squee with joy).

[Icinix]

What MonkeyBanana Said ^



ME was a deliberate attempt to create a new genre, or hybrid of styles. Yes it has flaws, but it's an ongoing process of deliberation and change. If you want a traditional RPG, then look elsewhere.

Personally I'm all for embracing change and welcoming new styles, the gaming industry has been stagnant for a while, it's become complacent with set styles, now we're starting to see variations appear. Many companies are trying new approaches. BioWare's flagship in this new wave is the ME series. A new universe to play in, new style, story and so on. I say bring it on.



(Just don't try new styles with established franchises, that makes me cry. C&C4 I'm looking at you.)

[Ghoulees]

I think it's quite easy to summarise the standard / popularity / progression of this franchise ( yes, ME is now a franchise.... oh well ).

ME1 was pioneering. FPS and RPG rolled into one... some stand out graphics for its time, and the closest game to an interactive movie to date when released. Great stuff, even with its flaws.

ME2 is merely a tweak of the formula of ME1. Its a very polished product, but its clear to see the engine behind it is dated, flawed, and very... 'boxy' ( I searched long and hard for the right adjective there, hah! ).

ME3 needs to go beyong Biowares incredible ability to decorate the canvass, and fill the game full of dialogue. ME3 NEEDS to upgrade. Melee, more movement options (slide into cover, vault sideways over corners of objects, skirt around objects that you are clipping against), better clipping / collision quality assurance, more character responsiveness without loosing the illusion of 'mass'.  Heck, maybe even player controlled martial arts rather than just cut scenes.  If Batman Asylum can do it so well, I'm sure Bioware should be able to put in some basic moves ( ahh, but then, the Unreal 3 Engine probably won't cut it ).  sigh.  

I am genuinely concerned that Bioware, resting on its existing engine, and production values, is now also resting on its laurels.

Please let it not be so.  Bioware's current success is due to the extra lengths it went in its previous games and incarnations.  With the production time going into SWTOR, I'd pray that ME3 will not go the way of 'profit before product'.

Oh, and by the way, I think ME2 is the better game. ME1 was more revolutionary in its day. I don't actually think you can compare really. I just know I enjoyed ME2 more because I didnt have to roam aimlessley accross planets! THANKGOD!

Modifié par Ghoulees, 19 avril 2010 - 02:32 .