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Let's be honest, Bioware!


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#101
AngryFrozenWater

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Druss99 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

You know when people bash forums about the over all consensus?
When those forums saying not what the person wants to hear.
Bioware forums (and many many many many others) been over flowing in negativity about ME2, to a point that you cant miss or dismiss the general feeling for game unless you have already decided how you feel and the masses be damned.

Thats what I get from Christina Norman and the few hundread, but vocal, minority people that claim the game was a huge success. They just not paying attention to whats really being said and probably had no intention on doing so from the get go!

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that 95% of the pre sales are ME1 players and people convinced to play the game because they loved ME1. ME2 doesnt figure into those sales at all. I know I brought 5 new players to try ME2 because I loved ME1 so much and it showed in my passion about game. Not one of those 5 will be buying ME3 and I had to get reamed out (while appoligizing greatly) for wasting their time and money! But that dissatisfaction is obvious to all with but a glance at the forums. But Miss Norman not only says ME2 outsold ME1 on the strenght of ME2 (false) but that the same team that brought us ME2 should be retained over rehireing the ME1 team. Anouther falsehood that she just creates outta the blue to satisfy her obviously enormous ego. Again, Ignoreing what the forums say. 

I dont think developers should do point by point following of the forums but if you want a accurate over all feeling towards a product, a glance at the REAL forums attitude is all thats needed. And the REAL forum attitude has not been a positive one! Oh sure the same hundread fan boys start a congrats thread every second day to battle the endless stream of negative threads made on daily basis but again, you dont need to be a rocket scientic to see thats all smoke and mirrors and false imagery.

As I said before though, what I find really disappointing is so many threads are made that make great points (this one included or mine in signature as but a example) and yet none of those get any sort of responce (on topic that is, not mod saying "you cant please everyone") from Bioware yet I seen Javier sticking many of the copy and paste "thank you" threads werew the same people say the same thing over and over and nothing constructive or helpful mentioned. 


I think you will find your the minority. Posting the same thing in thread after thread wont change that. Look at the user reviews on gamefaqs the lowest it scores is 6 and its mostly 9/10 or 10/10. Also its user score on gamespot is 9.4 and 8.8 on metacritic. How about instead of a long rant that just makes you look like your foaming at the mouth and making stuff up you come back with facts to back up your claims? Because you dont need to be a rocket scientist to see YOUR all smoke and mirrors and false imagery.

Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 24 mars 2010 - 07:49 .


#102
valkyrie0

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Take into account that people who have problems with a game will have a much greater chance of posting their opinions than people who don't.

I know that:

1) Bioware is made up of A LOT of smart people who know their way around making a game.
2) EA does not control creative direction. Dragon Age was a risky game to ship and the fact that it did very well gives credit to Bioware's view of the market and their ability to make a game that sells and appeals to the hardcore fantasy RPG fans.

Modifié par polyorpheus, 24 mars 2010 - 07:51 .


#103
Teknor

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I found a cool post by someone who first played ME2 and decided to play ME1. This is what he or she said:

Before 4 weeks ago I didn't even know Mass Effect existed.

Then I pick up ME2 and thought it was the best game ever ... But decided to pick up ME1 just cause I wanted to see this "Sovereign" guy ... Whatever that was.

I just finished ME1 and ... I am speechless.

This is simply the best game EVER.

It's epic.

It's the first game where I honestly had "feelings" for the characters.

I felt so damn bad for the Proteans ...

I was awestruck by Sovereign ... Anchored to the citadel like the most evil squid ever conceived.

It was just incredible to see those tentacles pound on the citadel tower as Shep was walking on it ... Fighting her way TO IT.

This game is just beyond anything I expected. Pure and simple.

Again ... Best game ever ... And yes ... Even better than ME2 (although ME2 is still damn good).

Source: ME1 ... wow ... just wow.

It seems that the OP is not the only one who loves ME1. ;)

As for me... I've played ME1 13 times. I have a hard time completing ME2 for the 4th time. I don't think I'll do a 5th. It just doesn't cut it for me. I rather play a true shooter than ME2.


Why don't you play a real RPG instead of ME1 too? ME sucked at RPG department.

#104
javierabegazo

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be

#105
Mik Sacred

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@Druss I feel that what you have to say has merit and I agree with you. I also feel that the majority of people who love and adore this game are too busy enjoying said game to come out and bother with these types of people. I myself am not playing currently due to the fact I'm packing for a trip and because I'm trying to catch up with the friends I've been ignoring in favor of playing said game.



As for everyone who doesn't think ME2 is as good as the original please keep in mind it's here as a middle man, the filler if you will until ME3. It's here to give us extra insight into whats happened and to set up the epic conclusion to this story. If it really bothers you so much then I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it and I hope you enjoy ME3 more but until then please stop spamming so much hate. If I keep seeing it I might stop being polite.. and you wouldn't like me when I'm not polite.

#106
AngryFrozenWater

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Teknor wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I found a cool post by someone who first played ME2 and decided to play ME1. This is what he or she said:

Before 4 weeks ago I didn't even know Mass Effect existed.

Then I pick up ME2 and thought it was the best game ever ... But decided to pick up ME1 just cause I wanted to see this "Sovereign" guy ... Whatever that was.

I just finished ME1 and ... I am speechless.

This is simply the best game EVER.

It's epic.

It's the first game where I honestly had "feelings" for the characters.

I felt so damn bad for the Proteans ...

I was awestruck by Sovereign ... Anchored to the citadel like the most evil squid ever conceived.

It was just incredible to see those tentacles pound on the citadel tower as Shep was walking on it ... Fighting her way TO IT.

This game is just beyond anything I expected. Pure and simple.

Again ... Best game ever ... And yes ... Even better than ME2 (although ME2 is still damn good).

Source: ME1 ... wow ... just wow.

It seems that the OP is not the only one who loves ME1. ;)

As for me... I've played ME1 13 times. I have a hard time completing ME2 for the 4th time. I don't think I'll do a 5th. It just doesn't cut it for me. I rather play a true shooter than ME2.


Why don't you play a real RPG instead of ME1 too? ME sucked at RPG department.

Oh. I do that too from time to time. Currently I am happy with DA:O. Is that a problem for you?

#107
DarthCaine

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ME2 IS THE WORST GAME EVAAAAAR !!!

#108
AngryFrozenWater

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javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be

Sorry... I don't believe that. If you mention one, you should mention the other.

#109
DarthCaine

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be

Sorry... I don't believe that. If you mention one, you should mention the other.

Ahem .... :

http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/

Image IPB
(in case someone doesn't get it, the point of the image is the User Score)

Modifié par DarthCaine, 24 mars 2010 - 08:03 .


#110
Teknor

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Teknor wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I found a cool post by someone who first played ME2 and decided to play ME1. This is what he or she said:

Before 4 weeks ago I didn't even know Mass Effect existed.

Then I pick up ME2 and thought it was the best game ever ... But decided to pick up ME1 just cause I wanted to see this "Sovereign" guy ... Whatever that was.

I just finished ME1 and ... I am speechless.

This is simply the best game EVER.

It's epic.

It's the first game where I honestly had "feelings" for the characters.

I felt so damn bad for the Proteans ...

I was awestruck by Sovereign ... Anchored to the citadel like the most evil squid ever conceived.

It was just incredible to see those tentacles pound on the citadel tower as Shep was walking on it ... Fighting her way TO IT.

This game is just beyond anything I expected. Pure and simple.

Again ... Best game ever ... And yes ... Even better than ME2 (although ME2 is still damn good).

Source: ME1 ... wow ... just wow.

It seems that the OP is not the only one who loves ME1. ;)

As for me... I've played ME1 13 times. I have a hard time completing ME2 for the 4th time. I don't think I'll do a 5th. It just doesn't cut it for me. I rather play a true shooter than ME2.


Why don't you play a real RPG instead of ME1 too? ME sucked at RPG department.

Oh. I do that too from time to time. Currently I am happy with DA:O. Is that a problem for you?


Why waste time over a half assed RPG wannabe like ME? That baffled me. 

#111
Druss99

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javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be


Yeah pretty much. I wasnt comparing them I love both. I was pointing out that its nowhere near as bad as he is claiming it to be and he is quite clearly just making stuff up.

#112
javierabegazo

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be

Sorry... I don't believe that. If you mention one, you should mention the other.

Well, sure, I agree, for the sake of credibility it's best to offer information in it's entirety, but still, the breadth of Kalfear's post was centered on Negative reception of ME2

#113
Tasker

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Vena_86 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's be honest, DreDk.

Different people enjoy different aspects of games. It is impossible to please everyone all the time. Sometimes you will agree with our decisions and love the game we release, sometimes you won't. Is it impossible for us to predict what you as an individual will and won't enjoy, and it is a little misguided to believe that a) we can cater our games to individual gamers' tastes and preferences, and B) that you have to like everything we do.

I'm sorry you don't feel ME2 was as good as ME1. Perhaps you will like future products better.


Making a target-audience switch with a sequel will always result in people beeing dissappointed, more so than with independent franchises. It is one thing to make a sequel more attractive for a bigger audience but its another thing to concentrate on that new audience completely and forget about the existing one, the fans. And the real Mass Effect fans are mostly not hardcore shooter players. Since ME1 shooter combat was not that well developed, those people that really enjoyed the game loved other things about it then the shooting aspects. And most of these other things are inferior represented in the sequel, namely immersion, story, exploration, character progression, freedom.

Not only that the improved combat could have been done without sacrificing the mentioned aspects (which I would have loved) but so drasticly changing the design focus for a sequel will naturally result in a lot of dissappointed and for the futur turned off fans, which are those people that brought you where you are now with their support.

When I want to listen to classical music then I listen to Vivaldi when I want to listen to Metal then I listen to All Shall Perish (or others). If All Shall Perish release a classical album everyone will hate it, if a lost metal album of Vivaldi will be discovered (lol)  then it wont really be well precieved, no matter how good they are individually.



This has always been what I meant whenever I've said that ME2 was a lousy sequel despite it being a good game.

Sequels are supposed to follow the same formula for asthetics, layout and gameplay, whilst tweaking those self same asthetics, layout and gameplay to improve upon them whilst at the same time maintaining consistancy, not butcher it beyond recognition untill it feels like a different genre altogether. Especially when they are direct followups that continue the same story and star the exact same main character. 

Imagine the outcry that Halo fans would have produced if Halo 3 had been made as a point and click adventure. Bungie would have been stoned to death. ( Yes i'm exagerating for emphasis. )

Lets face it, ME2 has been produced to appeal to the fickle 10 second attention span muppets that have no loyalty beyond their current favourite game, rather than the loyal fans that have supported Bioware for the length of their existance andbuy their games for the reason that they arn't aimed at fickle 10 second attention span muppets .

#114
AngryFrozenWater

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Thanks, DarthCaine... I was waiting for that image. Hehe. :)

#115
valkyrie0

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A lot of people didn't like Mass Effect 2. A lot of people don't like Mass Effect 1. And they're all right. I love Mass Effect 1 and 2 and I'm right. It all comes to personal taste in entertainment, not some arbitrary universal label of "good" or "bad".

#116
TJSolo

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javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be


Well there are certain forumites that try and state the same exact thing, only opposite by showing ME2 with high "review" scores than ME1.
Reviews are opinions on the individual product and not comparisons of the two games. ME2 happens to draw some ME1 comparisons because it is the sequel, heck ME2 in some reviews gets genre comparions as well because it is so strong on the shooter aspect.

It is just too funny to read the same forumites jump all over the OP and ravagely disagree, seemingly not even get past the "ME1 is a TRUE masterpiece." line.

To the OP, I agree. I think ME1 set the bar for the whole ME Trilogy and I feel ME2 didn't reach or surpass the bar instead ME2 attempted to emulate GOW2 and even then feel short.

ME2 is a great game as a stand alone or for people that haven't played ME1;to me it's just as a sequel terribly confused on its identity.

#117
AngryFrozenWater

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javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be

Sorry... I don't believe that. If you mention one, you should mention the other.

Well, sure, I agree, for the sake of credibility it's best to offer information in it's entirety, but still, the breadth of Kalfear's post was centered on Negative reception of ME2

There are always extreme opinions. That is what this forum makes interesting. However, I do agree with some of his points. Start reading this thread from page 1. It gives you a rough idea how much trolling is going on. It polutes this forum. And I think Kalfear's post is a reaction to that. Trolling creates anger. I often have a hard time to stay polite myself here. ;)

BTW: I always like to see you popping up in threads like these. It sure cuts back the aggression. ;)

#118
Bigdoser

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Nab20 wrote...

Mass Effect 1 is the TRUE Masterpiece.


<_<

#119
Bigdoser

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DarthCaine wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


Nice that you mention that. User score for ME2 was 8.8. Why didn't you mention that ME1 had a score of 8.4. Or was a 0.4 difference too close?

Source: Mass Effect.

Source: Mass Effect 2.

I don't think he was trying to say that one was better than the other, but rather that the actual general opinion of ME2 isn't near as negative as Kalfear is making it out to be

Sorry... I don't believe that. If you mention one, you should mention the other.

Ahem .... :

http://social.biowar...093/polls/1659/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/

Image IPB
(in case someone doesn't get it, the point of the image is the User Score)

I was waiting for someone to post that some people on this forum think that their opinion is the majority >_>

#120
AngryFrozenWater

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Teknor wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Teknor wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I found a cool post by someone who first played ME2 and decided to play ME1. This is what he or she said:

Before 4 weeks ago I didn't even know Mass Effect existed.

Then I pick up ME2 and thought it was the best game ever ... But decided to pick up ME1 just cause I wanted to see this "Sovereign" guy ... Whatever that was.

I just finished ME1 and ... I am speechless.

This is simply the best game EVER.

It's epic.

It's the first game where I honestly had "feelings" for the characters.

I felt so damn bad for the Proteans ...

I was awestruck by Sovereign ... Anchored to the citadel like the most evil squid ever conceived.

It was just incredible to see those tentacles pound on the citadel tower as Shep was walking on it ... Fighting her way TO IT.

This game is just beyond anything I expected. Pure and simple.

Again ... Best game ever ... And yes ... Even better than ME2 (although ME2 is still damn good).

Source: ME1 ... wow ... just wow.

It seems that the OP is not the only one who loves ME1. ;)

As for me... I've played ME1 13 times. I have a hard time completing ME2 for the 4th time. I don't think I'll do a 5th. It just doesn't cut it for me. I rather play a true shooter than ME2.


Why don't you play a real RPG instead of ME1 too? ME sucked at RPG department.

Oh. I do that too from time to time. Currently I am happy with DA:O. Is that a problem for you?


Why waste time over a half assed RPG wannabe like ME? That baffled me.

Oh. Sorry to hear that. If I knew it would baffle you I would've never played the game. :P

#121
Dethateer

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So RPGs are the only games worth playing?

#122
Warlock Angel22

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Orkboy wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's be honest, DreDk.

Different people enjoy different aspects of games. It is impossible to please everyone all the time. Sometimes you will agree with our decisions and love the game we release, sometimes you won't. Is it impossible for us to predict what you as an individual will and won't enjoy, and it is a little misguided to believe that a) we can cater our games to individual gamers' tastes and preferences, and B) that you have to like everything we do.

I'm sorry you don't feel ME2 was as good as ME1. Perhaps you will like future products better.


Making a target-audience switch with a sequel will always result in people beeing dissappointed, more so than with independent franchises. It is one thing to make a sequel more attractive for a bigger audience but its another thing to concentrate on that new audience completely and forget about the existing one, the fans. And the real Mass Effect fans are mostly not hardcore shooter players. Since ME1 shooter combat was not that well developed, those people that really enjoyed the game loved other things about it then the shooting aspects. And most of these other things are inferior represented in the sequel, namely immersion, story, exploration, character progression, freedom.

Not only that the improved combat could have been done without sacrificing the mentioned aspects (which I would have loved) but so drasticly changing the design focus for a sequel will naturally result in a lot of dissappointed and for the futur turned off fans, which are those people that brought you where you are now with their support.

When I want to listen to classical music then I listen to Vivaldi when I want to listen to Metal then I listen to All Shall Perish (or others). If All Shall Perish release a classical album everyone will hate it, if a lost metal album of Vivaldi will be discovered (lol)  then it wont really be well precieved, no matter how good they are individually.



This has always been what I meant whenever I've said that ME2 was a lousy sequel despite it being a good game.

Sequels are supposed to follow the same formula for asthetics, layout and gameplay, whilst tweaking those self same asthetics, layout and gameplay to improve upon them whilst at the same time maintaining consistancy, not butcher it beyond recognition untill it feels like a different genre altogether. Especially when they are direct followups that continue the same story and star the exact same main character. 

Imagine the outcry that Halo fans would have produced if Halo 3 had been made as a point and click adventure. Bungie would have been stoned to death. ( Yes i'm exagerating for emphasis. )

Lets face it, ME2 has been produced to appeal to the fickle 10 second attention span muppets that have no loyalty beyond their current favourite game, rather than the loyal fans that have supported Bioware for the length of their existance andbuy their games for the reason that they arn't aimed at fickle 10 second attention span muppets .


Another ignorant comment. I hate people who think like this. They believe that because someone else's taste is different from theirs, then they must have inferior taste. It's the argument of the simple minded. It would not be right if ME2>ME1 fans called ME1>ME2  fans obsessive compulsive loot hounds.

Both ME1 and ME2 are great combat rpgs. ME2 refined the combat portion of the game, other than that, there is not much difference. If you dislike the story in ME2 in favor of the ME1 story then that's a taste issue. Some people like Godfather over Godfather 2 and vice versa.

To be honest, I could care less about all the whining or complaining. If I worked at Bioware I wouldn't listen to it but they seem like they do. That's the only reason I respond. I don't want them to go back to an inferior system in my opinion and waste time on technical nonsense like  crouch and inventory. I want Bioware to be concentrating 99% of their time on making an involved story with lots of missions and beautiful worlds.

#123
AngryFrozenWater

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Dethateer wrote...

So RPGs are the only games worth playing?

For me? Certainly not. I play a lot of different games. I am not a fan of RTS games, though. I happen to like FPS games a lot. I think I play more FPS than RPG I think. Sometimes TPS. I currently I have this urge to play horror survival stuff. :P

#124
AngryFrozenWater

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Warlock Angel22 wrote...

I don't want them to go back to an inferior system in my opinion and waste time on technical nonsense like  crouch and inventory.

Hehe. Cool that you mention that. It seems crouch is present in ME2. I've modified a config file. Works. Animation and all. Nice. I am trying it out currently to see if it adds something to the game play.

I only wish that ME3 added things like prone, lean left and lean right as well. That would be cool. I miss throwing genades too. Sprinting could be improved as well. And a dedicated key for jump and one for cover. Not that silly combination which causes me to jump over cover by accident. I really hate that. :P

Edit: And while they are at it, maybe the scroll wheel could zoom from third person view to first person view and back.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 24 mars 2010 - 08:53 .


#125
Dethateer

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

So RPGs are the only games worth playing?

For me? Certainly not. I play a lot of different games. I am not a fan of RTS games, though. I happen to like FPS games a lot. I think I play more FPS than RPG I think. Sometimes TPS. I currently I have this urge to play horror survival stuff. :P


Not for you. For the guy who asked you why you waste your time on an RPG wannabe when you have a real one (DA) to play.