67 réponses à ce sujet

[Raven Snow]

What does everyone think of the new way to chat with your companions in Awakenings?

Personally? I found it more awkward and cumbersome that the Origins way of doing it. It may have been ok if the game was longer, but since the companions rarely had anything to say outside of Vigils Keep, I found my self going in and out and in and out of the place to spark cutscenes, which wasn't made fun by the load time needed to get inside/outside the keep.

I suppose I could have gone back to the keep more often, but that would have meant stopping mid quest, to go back "home" to see if anyone had anything to say >.< I mean, I went back after every majour plot point, but I still had a build up of conversations, and by the end of the game, I'd barely done anyone's personal quests despite having most of them in the 90's for approval.

Anyway, as I said, it would probably work on a longer game ... I mean I went back to "camp" in Origins TONNES of times, but for the length Awakenings was, and the small amount of time you needed to be at Vigils Keep, I think it flopped a bit, and certainly didn't seem more "natural". <_<

Whats your opinions?

[khathaway71]

I think I like the new system better than the old. However there were a few things that I did miss about the old...like chatting them up in camp. Maybe if they could incorporate the best of each system to make it even better.



The one thing I really like about the new system was that if I clicked on companion by accident instead of a lootable corpse is it didn't initiate an awkward conversation.

[Eonassassin]

i like the new system but I hate the fact I coultnt talk to them at Vigils keep. Not talking to them in the middle of a quest and stuff is fine but I think people talk when they are at camp right?

[Sylvius the Mad]

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?

That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

[Eonassassin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

[Raven Snow]

khathaway71 wrote...

The one thing I really like about the
new system was that if I clicked on companion by accident instead of a
lootable corpse is it didn't initiate an awkward conversation.

Yes! that was handy lol ..... Maybe if they make the camp/keep conversations as they were in Origins, but the exploration ones the same as in Awakenings it wouldn't feel so ... cumbersome (not quite the word I'm looking for but it'll do)

Modifié par Raven Snow, 24 mars 2010 - 06:52 .

[Raven Snow]

Eonassassin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

Or certain cutscenes when you enter the keep ... usually about 3 of them have queued up by the time you've finished a main area like the Blackmarsh etc >.<

Very frustrating

[Sylvius the Mad]

Eonassassin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

That's a terrible idea.

I hope they run away from that design as quickly as possible.

[Raven Snow]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Eonassassin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

That's a terrible idea.

I hope they run away from that design as quickly as possible.

I think I read from a moderator on another thread somewhere that this was supposed to make the conversations more "natural" and to do away with the "laundry list of questions" that you can ask companions.... but it just feels rather ... clumsy.
I didn't find it effected my enjoyment of the gameplay so much, as just my emotional attachment to the companions ...

[Raiil]

It affected my PC's ability to give a damn about her companions. My f!Amell ended up bonding with Anders and Justice only because she has a pre-built connection to them as a mage, and someone who can walk the Fade of their own violation. Personally, I thought Nathaniel was quite sweet when I metagamed to get his approval up and I enjoy Sigrun's pluckiness, but my pc really didn't care. She has no connection with them so it became very ehhh.

[Malanek]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Eonassassin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

That's a terrible idea.

I hope they run away from that design as quickly as possible.

There are way more than 4 times you talk to them. You can talk to them in the keep (camp) when they have something to say. Unfortunately this is rarely.  It graphically indicates this. The system is technically better, it saves the player having to talk to every party member and go through all the conversation options only to find they have nothing new to say. As for the amount of dialogue they put in the game it is completely unrelated to the system of starting conversations. Over the course of the game the newer system saves the player a lot of downtime and is more immersive.

[Raven Snow]

Malanek999 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Eonassassin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

That's a terrible idea.

I hope they run away from that design as quickly as possible.

There are way more than 4 times you talk to them. You can talk to them in the keep (camp) when they have something to say. Unfortunately this is rarely.  It graphically indicates this. The system is technically better, it saves the player having to talk to every party member and go through all the conversation options only to find they have nothing new to say. As for the amount of dialogue they put in the game it is completely unrelated to the system of starting conversations. Over the course of the game the newer system saves the player a lot of downtime and is more immersive.

There is quite a bit of dialogue but ONLY if you find the certain area's that activate conversation (like certain statues around Amaranthine), or continuiously go back to the Keep, which is frustrating and distracting.
And it's certainly not more immersive... I know that was the point of the new system, but from my point of view it really failed with that aspect

I still think that if they blended the Origins and Awakenings systems a bit, it would feel better in game

Modifié par Raven Snow, 24 mars 2010 - 08:05 .

[Malanek]

Raven Snow wrote...

There is quite a bit of dialogue but ONLY if you find the certain area's that activate conversation (like certain statues around Amaranthine), or continuiously go back to the Keep, which is frustrating and distracting.
And it's certainly not more immersive... I know that was the point of the new system, but from my point of view it really failed with that aspect

I still think that if they blended the Origins and Awakenings systems a bit, it would feel better in game

As opposed to continuously going back to camp?

The reason I have always felt the go round and talk to all your followers was not immersive was because of situations like this.

Go talk to Sten...

Warden "I have some questions"
Sten "No doubt"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "I want to talk about something you mentioned"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "Lets move on"

Go talk to Morrigan
Warden "I have a question"
Morrigan *chuckles* "So full of questions are you"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "I would like to ask you something personal"
Morrigan "We're in camp so 'tis good as time as any"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "Lets move on"

And so on round all the other companions with some of them having something to say. Conversations like this are not only time consuming breaking up the flow of the game but they are also completely unrealistic. This makes it completely unimmersive. In ME1 it was even worse because you had to spend minutes running around the bloody ship and even go in the lift. ME2 solved it a bit by always having something new to say between missions and making sure you didn't miss out on major content or bonuses if you skipped conversing with them.

As I see it the new system is designed to stop that and I completely support the intention. Most of the complaints I here are to do with no romance, not much character back story or you can't ask them questions. That is still down to what the writers write into the game, not a problem with the system.

Modifié par Malanek999, 24 mars 2010 - 08:34 .

[Raven Snow]

Malanek999 wrote...

Raven Snow wrote...

There is quite a bit of dialogue but ONLY if you find the certain area's that activate conversation (like certain statues around Amaranthine), or continuiously go back to the Keep, which is frustrating and distracting.
And it's certainly not more immersive... I know that was the point of the new system, but from my point of view it really failed with that aspect

I still think that if they blended the Origins and Awakenings systems a bit, it would feel better in game

As opposed to continuously going back to camp?

The reason I have always felt the go round and talk to all your followers was not immersive was because of situations like this.

Go talk to Sten...

Warden "I have some questions"
Sten "No doubt"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "I want to talk about something you mentioned"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "Lets move on"

Go talk to Morrigan
Warden "I have a question"
Morrigan *chuckles* "So full of questions are you"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "I would like to ask you something personal"
Morrigan "We're in camp so 'tis good as time as any"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "Lets move on"

And so on round all the other companions with some of them having something to say. Conversations like this are not only time consuming breaking up the flow of the game but they are also completely unrealistic. This makes it completely unimmersive. In ME1 it was even worse because you had to spend minutes running around the bloody ship and even go in the lift. ME2 solved it a bit by always having something new to say between missions and making sure you didn't miss out on major content or bonuses if you skipped conversing with them.

As I see it the new system is designed to stop that and I completely support the intention. Most of the complaints I here are to do with no romance, not much character back story or you can't ask them questions. That is still down to what the writers write into the game, not a problem with the system.

Like I said in my first post, I think the Awakenings system would have worked better on a game the length of Origins, because I went back to the camp ALOT of the time. In Awakenings, the game doesn't require you to return to the Keep very often to heal or regroup, so when you do go back, you have a cut scene when you go into the keep
then you have to exit the keep
then go back in for the next auto cut scene, untill you've spoken to ALL the characters who have a cutscene waiting to play to you .... I find this MORE distracting that going round the camp and talking to my companions because thats what you WOULD do if you really were sitting in a camp; you'd go round and chat to people.

I have no problem with what was put into the dialogue, and how much there was, or that fact that there's no romancible options (although this was one thing I was dreading, I found I didn't mind it as much as I thought I would) ... what DID bother me was just how difficult it was to activate/access conversation with your companions unless you were going back to the keep in between quests and explorations of area's.

I also completely support the intentions they had with this idea, but I DO
think it needs some more work.

Modifié par Raven Snow, 24 mars 2010 - 08:44 .

[Eudaemonium]

If the characters have queued up conversations you can just click on them to initiate them - you don't have to leave and come back. At least on my games you can. They're also tied to approval.

I personally loved the new system - I just wish their had been more areas of interest. But like Raven Snow commented, it would have worked a lot better in a game as long as Origins. Personally, I think a combination of the Origins system and this one would be great, but the trick there would be keeping the balance right. I felt the new system offered a lot more context to interactions (Velanna's comments on city elves, for example - which I think was made better by the fact my PC was a city elf and was able to question Velanna's attitude to her, or Oghren commenting on the Anvil in Kal'Hirol). In a full game, with much more points of interest, this system would be wonderful. Of course, I think the reason it was done in Awakening was in part so the player could find out more about the characters as they played with them - rather than initating 6 consecutive dialogues in the keep before going anywhere and then complaining that they didn't say anything else for the rest of the game. The game had a lot less dialogue than Origins, understandably so - and the new system broke it up into bits to give you something to look forward to.

[Raven Snow]

Eudaemonium wrote...

If the characters have queued up conversations you can just click on them to initiate them - you don't have to leave and come back. At least on my games you can. They're also tied to approval.

I thought there was supposed to be a quite a few of those instances where i could click on the character when THEY wanted to talk ... but it only happened once in my game where a character had a icon over their head and I could click on it ... seems strange.

Every other time I "spoke" to a companion, it was when I entered the keep and triggered a conversation with a charcter, without needing to click them or even do anything. Just entered the keep.... so maybe this is something with my game? *is a little confused*

Either way, I do agree that a blend would be better, and especially on a longer game.

Modifié par Raven Snow, 24 mars 2010 - 09:50 .

[Eudaemonium]

Sometimes the icon doesn't appear - but if you click on them it can initiate dialogue, if they have anything to say. At least for me. I've done that with Sigrun, Velanna, Anders and Oghren at least. Each companion only has about 3 dialogues in the Keep each (except Oggy, who has a few relating to the barrel behind him).

[Merci357]

The new system has it's own, special flaws...

Or does anyone consider running around on already cleared maps with later aquired companions, only to look for conversation triggers, innovative or fun?



I guess I could settle in the middle between DAO and DAA - as presented in ME2. No player initiated dialogues, however there were conversation triggers, but full conversation options at the Normandy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Raven Snow wrote...

I think I read from a moderator on another thread somewhere that this was supposed to make the conversations more "natural" and to do away with the "laundry list of questions" that you can ask companions.... but it just feels rather ... clumsy.

They need to stop catering to non-roleplayers.

That laundry list is only a laudry list if you play it like that.  If you roleplay your way through the conversations, then that's never a problem.  You'll only ask questions that feel natural, because that's the whole point of roleplaying.

[caradoc2000]

I don't mind these location specific convos, but they shouldn't be the only means to talk to your party members.

[CybAnt1]

Said it before and said it again.... if they're going to force us to rely on environmental triggers to get convos with companions, it just means MORE hunting the screen with the TAB key ... as if it wasn't bad enough looking for the lootable stuff, activateable stuff like ballistas, and the stuff that gives codex entries.



I mean, without the Tab key, would I have really guessed on my own that it was necessary to click a floating boat in the Fade to talk to Oghren about dreams? Without the Prima guide, Wiki, or the Tab key, would I have known a bulletin board in Amaranthine is the place Oghren wants to discuss his strange rash with me? Etc.



Some people like it ... I think it's tedium +1, and don't.



That said: it's OK if once in a while an environmental trigger helps move a character personal quest/backstory/etc. forward ... I just don't like the idea of it being central, ergo my desire in the future for something that blends old & new.

[Raven Snow]

So far it seems most people prefer the old system, but like some aspects of the new and would be ... at least content with a level blend of the two for the next expansion/game?



Am I getting this right roughly?

[Bitterfoam]

I definitely liked the new system and prefer it to playing 20 Questions with your party members. For the record, my copy is for the 360, so I'm not running around with any tab button held down. And I'm fairly confident I didn't miss any locations for the party I was running through 90% of the game with.



I'm not someone who minded the original game's style of companion dialogue. It's old-school. It echoes that part of me that looked in wide-eyed wonder at Baldur's Gate when my middle-school friend showed me it and I tried to play it every chance I got. I went through my first Origins playthrough speaking only with my desired party, for the most part - it helped to make things less stale through the first four playthroughs - but now I realize what exactly it is: slogging through interrogations. I don't mind it, but I see the problems with it that David Gaider, I think it was, spoke about.



I whole-heartedly support the new style.

[Stoomkal]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Eonassassin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So you can't talk to your companions outside of the keep?
That's a terrible idea. Way to shoot verisimilitude in the foot.

You cant even talk to them in the keep, it just happens at specific "party interaction locations" which I only found 4 of in the entire game..

That's a terrible idea.

I hope they run away from that design as quickly as possible.

...

The stupid, stupid thing is that David Gaider said that he implemented the new system because it was "less artificial" than the old system.

It is even stupid on paper...

It is the most artificial thing I have ever experienced in terms of "interaction"... and it leaves most people feeling disconnected to the characters, who barely make an impact.

You cannot even ask them who they are or where they come from before the joining...

Stooopid...

[Stoomkal]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Raven Snow wrote...

I think I read from a moderator on another thread somewhere that this was supposed to make the conversations more "natural" and to do away with the "laundry list of questions" that you can ask companions.... but it just feels rather ... clumsy.

They need to stop catering to non-roleplayers.

That laundry list is only a laudry list if you play it like that.  If you roleplay your way through the conversations, then that's never a problem.  You'll only ask questions that feel natural, because that's the whole point of roleplaying.

...

Ugh... EXACTLY!!!

They threw the whole RP aspect out the window... these interactions would be more at home in an adventure game, not an RPG.

It feels cheap and disconnected... more like they are sideshow players with banter, but not *characters*.