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So ... New Style of Companion Dialogue (DA:A)


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#26
marquiseondore

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Merci357 wrote...

The new system has it's own, special flaws...
Or does anyone consider running around on already cleared maps with later aquired companions, only to look for conversation triggers, innovative or fun?

I guess I could settle in the middle between DAO and DAA - as presented in ME2. No player initiated dialogues, however there were conversation triggers, but full conversation options at the Normandy.



I did find that aggravating.  I enjoy the idea as it pertains to the Keep. Sigrun's books, the portrait behind Nathaniel. 

I think there are a couple instances where you can talk to your companions at the Keep.  If I remember correctly, I think I was able to do that with Anders, Oghren and Velanna.  I'm sure those are conversations you could initiate else where, it just so happened to be at the keep fo me.

#27
Sylvius the Mad

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Malanek999 wrote...

The reason I have always felt the go round and talk to all your followers was not immersive was because of situations like this.

Go talk to Sten...

Warden "I have some questions"
Sten "No doubt"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "I want to talk about something you mentioned"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "Lets move on"

Go talk to Morrigan
Warden "I have a question"
Morrigan *chuckles* "So full of questions are you"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "I would like to ask you something personal"
Morrigan "We're in camp so 'tis good as time as any"
Warden (No new dialogue options) "I would like to talk about something else"
Warden "Lets move on"

And so on round all the other companions with some of them having something to say. Conversations like this are not only time consuming breaking up the flow of the game but they are also completely unrealistic. This makes it completely unimmersive.

So don't do those things.

The game shouldn't have to protect you from yourself.

#28
Brockololly

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The system as it is in Awakening doesn't do it for me. Sure the Origins system wasn't perfect and it is nice to have some more dynamic conversations out and about but it takes away the player's ability to initiate conversations unless you want to click on a tree or statue. The general idea of what the devs were going for is admirable, but the execution comes up short, which I think hurts my ability to really care for any of the characters.



But Gaider gives some insight in this thread and there are some good ideas from some people on how to tweak the system without losing what made Origins great:

http://social.biowar...7/index/1761467

#29
Guest_HK74_*

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Eh, they need to combine the Awakening system with the Origins system, as well as tweaking both. You should be able to have in-depth 1-on-1 convos at camp, some threads should open up only when you have enough approval to complete the conversation and some should open up after main story quests are completed, that way the companions wouldn't run out of things to say half-way through the game. Hot-spot convos like DAA's (or when companions jump into conversations with NPCs) should be group conversations where everyone in the party has something to add, that way we get more group interaction and a better sense of how the characters relate to each other.

#30
Serissia

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I liked how clicking on various objects in the world brought up dialogue interaction relative to the object or current situation. I also liked how the hint option or whatever it's called put arrows above the heads of my companions indicating that he/she had something new to say to me. I hated having to run between everyone at camp checking for new dialogue options in Origins.



The new system isn't without its faults though. I didn't like that I had to travel all the way back to the Keep and then enter inside just to check for new dialogue options; having to do that was far more annoying than just clicking on the camp icon when exiting an area.



Like others have said, if they can come up with a combination of both systems it would probably be ideal.

#31
Reenie

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Well, speaking as someone whose enjoyment of a Role Playing game is 99% characterization and story based and 1% battle based, this new style of companion dialogue just doesn't cut it for me.

It's simply not "natural" enough. 

What dialogue there is, and given my inclinations I found there to be little enough of it, isn't nearly engaging enough.  The companion characters, just based on their brief dialogue scenes, are sadly two dimensional and almost completely forgettable.  I found more of interest in Vigil Keep's seneshal that I did in any of the "companion" characters and I believe that the quality and accessability of dialogue interactions with the Keep's seneshal is entirely the reason.  There are more meaningful dialogue interactions with the Keep's seneshal than there are with any single other NPC or companion, and you can always walk up to him and ask him what's up, even if he doesn't have anything new to say to you.

For me, it all comes down to suspension of disbelief.  I think of it this way:  In the real world (bad four letter word, I know, and I apologize for it), I go into work in the morning, I walk up to my co-workers, say hello and ask how their evening was.  Sometimes they have a story to tell, sometimes they don't.  Either way they will respond to my greeting even if the response is very brief and completely personally unenlightening. 

What doesn't happen, is that I go up to a co-worker and say hello and they completely ignore me while staring at their computer monitor (try directly initiating a conversation with one of your companions in the Keep and see how they respond).  Likewise, I don't walk up to the coffee machine and stare at it to start a dialogue with my co-workers, if I want to chat with them, I will go to them directly (but for some reason I am expected to believe that staring at, or rather clicking on, a tree in Amaranthine works as a conversation starter... really?). I don't lead various colleagues up and down the same hallways to see if one of them happens to find something interesting in one of them (though for some reason I am expected to repeatedly visit the same areas with different companions each time just in case they might deign to talk to me if I look at the right thing).  I also don't open the doors to my co-workers' offices and walk in repeatedly to get them to initiate conversations (however, this is apparently an acceptable method of communicating with my companions while housed at the Keep). 

These are not "natural" ways for me to communicate, and because they are not, they interrupt the flow of the game for me and therefore disrupt my ability to suspend disbelief and immerse myself in the Awakenings world.  This lack of immersion, for me, leads directly to an inability to relate to the companion characters and severs any budding emotional bond that may have begun to present itself during their introduction.  What this also means for me, given that I am such a character and story driven role player, is that the game is basically ruined.  The various fight and battle scenes are nothing more than gratuitous violence to me unless they are extremely plot advancing, which sadly isn't the case for about 70% of the fights in the Awakenings expansion and as such these don't make up any ground that was lost by the poor communication between myself and the companion characters.  Since I have no vested emotional interest in the game expansion, via the companion characters and the lack of depth of the plot, I also have no interest in re-playing the expansion.  Because I have no interest in re-playing the expansion, I have recommended to several friends that they not bother to spend their money on it; they are very like me in regards to what makes a RPG entertaining and even fictionally believable to them.  Though now that I think about it further it might be nice to have a couple of friends to complain about it with.  It could be a somewhat engaging way to pass an evening at least.  Ok maybe only part of an evening... a small part.

Wow, I'm long winded....

#32
cinderburster

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Reenie wrote...

Well, speaking as someone whose enjoyment of a Role Playing game is 99% characterization and story based and 1% battle based, this new style of companion dialogue just doesn't cut it for me.

It's simply not "natural" enough.  [...]


Seconded.  I was incredibly disappointed with the way dialogue was handled in this expansion.  I liked being able to have a conversation with my party members in the middle of a dungeon, even if it wasn't especially realistic for, say, Zevran to be waxing poetic about Antiva while surrounded by skeleton corpses.  Or maybe it would've been.  With him I can never tell.

The point is, I don't like being given the option of clicking on my party members to talk to them and having them say the same line at me every single time.  Ugh.

I was impressed by the frequency of party members talking to each other, though.  A lot of those conversations were great :3

#33
Hulk Hsieh

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It is OK in a smaller game like awakening, but for a bigger game like Origins, bring every NPC to every places to trigger dialogs would be a disaster.

#34
Nefily

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Maybe instead of clicking on the tree, signpost or statue ect the conversation just intiates in the area off them, then you dont have to run round with the tab button down or potentially miss a chance to interact with your party. Id like that on top of the camp dialoge in origins personally.

#35
Artisian

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Raven Snow wrote...

I think I read from a moderator on another thread somewhere that this was supposed to make the conversations more "natural" and to do away with the "laundry list of questions" that you can ask companions.... but it just feels rather ... clumsy.

They need to stop catering to non-roleplayers.

That laundry list is only a laudry list if you play it like that.  If you roleplay your way through the conversations, then that's never a problem.  You'll only ask questions that feel natural, because that's the whole point of roleplaying.


I agree completely. Too many developers try to do this. A game becomes popular and they try to please the casual/non-roleplayers ASWELL as the hardcore/RP gamers. And fail miserably. (Example, Fable 2)

I loved the old system, they didn't have to scrap it, only change it a little bit. If your companions didn't have anything new to say maybe they could have just done it like in awakening, it doesn't enter a chat cutscene, writing just appears above their head. *Click companion* "I've nothing more to say right now"

Or something like that, alot eaiser to see if they have anything new to say..

Lets just hope they include the positive aspects of this new system,
aswell as origins' system to give even MORE interaction.

Not sure
why you guys are thinking we have to choose between each system.. just
mix them together.

Modifié par Artisian, 25 mars 2010 - 11:30 .


#36
Artisian

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double post sorry =/ delete

Modifié par Artisian, 25 mars 2010 - 11:29 .


#37
Raven Snow

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Post = Just to bump the thread up and try and get some more opinions .... on a different end of the spectrum, is there anyone out there who felt that the Awakenings system was overall, better than origins in almost every aspect?

Modifié par Raven Snow, 26 mars 2010 - 11:46 .


#38
Sylvius the Mad

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I won't even install Awakenings until I'm done with DAO, because I don't like the engine changes Awakenings makes to the core game.

#39
Raven Snow

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I haven't noticed any changes to the core game that Awakenings makes ... what sort of thing are you referring too? (I have only just started a new origins game though so ...)

#40
roundcrow

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Raven Snow wrote...


I loved the old system, they didn't have to scrap it, only change it a little bit. If your companions didn't have anything new to say maybe they could have just done it like in awakening, it doesn't enter a chat cutscene, writing just appears above their head. *Click companion* "I've nothing more to say right now"

Or something like that, alot eaiser to see if they have anything new to say..

Lets just hope they include the positive aspects of this new system,
aswell as origins' system to give even MORE interaction.

Not sure
why you guys are thinking we have to choose between each system.. just
mix them together.


This.  All I really want to know whether or not I've exhausted their conversation options without having to click on them.  I don't think that's unnatural at all.

#41
Sylvius the Mad

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Raven Snow wrote...

I haven't noticed any changes to the core game that Awakenings makes ... what sort of thing are you referring too? (I have only just started a new origins game though so ...)

The only one they've told us about is that Lieutentants are now unshatterable.

But that's enough.  That's changes the dynamics of some encounters, and I don't want them changed.

#42
Cancermeat

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I hope the new dialouge system is only for the exspanion.

#43
Raven Snow

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Raven Snow wrote...

I haven't noticed any changes to the core game that Awakenings makes ... what sort of thing are you referring too? (I have only just started a new origins game though so ...)

The only one they've told us about is that Lieutentants are now unshatterable.

But that's enough.  That's changes the dynamics of some encounters, and I don't want them changed.


ah yeah! thats the Patch 1.03 that changes it isn't it (?) I'd forgotten that ... Thanks ... I'll keep an eye out for any other changes as i play through again.


Cancermeat wrote...

I hope the new dialouge system is only
for the exspanion.


I sort of agree .... they need to work the best aspects of Awakenings, into the Origins dialogue interface methinks

#44
Shazzie

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I do hope they can bring these two forms of conversation together, for the next xpack or for DA2. I like deep conversation trees and/or long chats with my party members, but having world triggers to learn even more about them is all *squee!* and such for me.  Bringing together the 'back at camp, time to chat' feeling with the 'world discovery' conversation trigger will give our party members even more depth of character. To me, that would be a really, really good thing.

I didn't hate DA:O's camp conversations (in fact, I wanted even more of them- what can I say, I like it), and I didn't hate Awakenings' conversation form, but it did make me miss what Origins had.

#45
Kryyptehk

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Shazzie wrote...

I do hope they can bring these two forms of conversation together, for the next xpack or for DA2. I like deep conversation trees and/or long chats with my party members, but having world triggers to learn even more about them is all *squee!* and such for me.  Bringing together the 'back at camp, time to chat' feeling with the 'world discovery' conversation trigger will give our party members even more depth of character. To me, that would be a really, really good thing.

I didn't hate DA:O's camp conversations (in fact, I wanted even more of them- what can I say, I like it), and I didn't hate Awakenings' conversation form, but it did make me miss what Origins had.


Yeah, I want the ability to do both. I liked the conversation system in Awakening, but I hated that you couldn't have in-depth conversations with your companions. I hope Bioware was just figuring their new system out so they could put it in the new game WITH the old system.

#46
sylvanaerie

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Well for me it was epic fail. The old system (while it could get annoying with no new dialogues to open up) at least allowed me to get to know my companions much better than running around looking for dialogue trees (Pun intended) to trigger some minor detail on some companion you had on you. Seemed to take even MORE time than just running in camp from person to person. Worst part was half the time the conversation wasn't about anything that pertinent and I sometimes did sometimes didn't get any approval change at all.



The new system feels shallow and empty like "office party chat" and you are the new guy who doesn't know anyone.



If they could incorporate a system that merges both I would welcome trying that though. Won't say I'd like it but I would be willing to try it.

#47
asaiasai

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I will say that i thought it was fine, as some suggested a combination of the two types of conversation models from DAO and DAOA would be ok too. I really like how this system effected the looting, no more annoying conversations when you are looting. It was a bit odd to have to run in and out of the Keep to trigger those conversations they should have just been usable in the Keep and marked the character with a quest arrow when they have something to say.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 27 mars 2010 - 08:52 .


#48
Zocat

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Just imagine running through all (!) the deep roads maps in DA:O with multiple characters (so maybe multiple times) just to find that special conversation trigger, which will push your approval over a needed rating!

#49
Cyansomnia

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I prefer the old dialogue system. I liked going into camp and starting conversations with the characters. I looked forward to listening to their stories, thoughts, fears, confessions of love. It made the game really deep for me. I feel like I just didn't get enough of that in the expansion. Though I was fond of several of the characters, I did not feel attached to them like my group in Origins. There were very few times I clicked on characters by accident in Origins, but I actually thought it was a good thing that I could talk to them anywhere I wanted.



The new system seems shallow. I did not like the clicking on objects to start talks. I do not want to have to run through an area several times with different party members to find them all. I learned barely anything about my new comrades. Give me the old system any day.

#50
Raven Snow

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this post is bumping the topic to try and get more views basically ^.^