91 réponses à ce sujet

[Urazz]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Are you on Bioware's payroll by chance? lol!

While the game was excellent... there were far too many ball drops in character development and the story itself.
That is what RPGs are all about. Story. Story. Story.
There is a distinct lack of continuity in ME2 when compared to ME1. Sorry... it's just fact.

While at the same time, the story is still good enough that people still want to play it and don't mind playing it repeatedly.  Most of ME2's flaws with the story are shared by ME1 as well except ME2 is a bit worse on those flaws.  The main storyline isn't truthfully that long in ME1 but ME2's is shorter, ME1 just felt bigger because it had a ton more sidemissions and timesinks.

There really isn't much squad interaction in ME1 but there is the elevator conversations (which I never got alot of) and the debriefings of your crew before you talk to the council.  Without something like that, you never really got much characterization of the characters in ME2 unless you brought them on missions for their commentary and what characterization you did show you what kind of character they are.

ME2's biggest story flaw I think was that there was no major boss character that gave you a chance to interact with.  Sure there was harbinger but he was just

The gameplay is fun enough to lend to replayability as well.  Also, the side missions while at times are boring or too easy aren't repetitive or as boring as the ones in ME1.  The simplified inventory system also is a big plus so ME2 beats ME1 on that part.

Basically, I score ME2 to be around equal to ME1.  Both have their strengths and weaknesses but neither really is really better enough in other categories to beat out the other in overall score.

[JeanLuc761]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Are you on Bioware's payroll by chance? lol!

While the game was excellent... there were far too many ball drops in character development and the story itself.
That is what RPGs are all about. Story. Story. Story.
There is a distinct lack of continuity in ME2 when compared to ME1. Sorry... it's just fact.

I will never understand how people complain about lack of character development when it was easily twice as good in ME2 (except for Shepard).

At any rate, I don't want to turn this thread into a complete s**tfest but if the OP enjoyed the game for what it was (and I agree with him), then Bioware obviously did something right.  I personally think that Mass Effect 2 is superior in almost every single way (with the obvious exception of the main storyline, which was mediocre). 

[Karstedt]

CarpeOmnios wrote...

You all suck, there's nothing wrong with writing a thread in appreciation to Bioware and the great job they've done with the Mass Effect franchise. Stop being killjoys.

You double suck! No backsies!

[Daeion]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Honestly I couldn't call ME2 a good shooter and if I wanted to play one I'd pop in one that i already own. That being said, I'm not saying ME2 is a pure shooter or wasn't a good game, to me it just wasn't as excellent as the OP says, but that's his opinion and he's allowed to have it.

Edit:
I also hate when people say RPGs are about story, we should be demanding that every game had a great story.  How awesome would a game like Gears be if it had a BioWare quality story?

At least Gears of War is a fully baked shooter.  What we got with ME 2 is a half baked shooter and a nonexistant storyline.  I wouldn't see much of  a difference if Gears of War had a "bioware" quality story.

I don't think ME2 is trying to be a pure shooter like Gears or Halo, ME2 is trying to be a hybrid.  As a stand alone game, ME2 has a very good story, regardless of if you feel the main plot points of the story are too few, for the most part it's still a very well written story imo and it's not the only game BioWare has written.  Gears has a decent story, but there are a lot of holes in it and something that are just kind of stupid.  So gears has great gameplay, but the story is lacking and I think having a story of the quality that we all expect from BioWare, then the experience would be even greater.  I mean what if we really had a reason to care about Dom finding his wife, why is she even missing to begin with and how did she end up where she did when compared to where we are looking for her at the begining of the game.

[InvaderErl]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

I will never understand how people complain about lack of character development when it was easily twice as good in ME2

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah Gears of War 2 was a step down in story and in gameplay IMO. The storyline and characters were just ehhhhh (I mean Carmine and Cole, seriously guys?) and the gameplay didn't have the tightness of the first game. To me gears 2 felt like it was on rails.



Also everything I said (with the exception of the Duke Nukem comment) is the opposite of what I think. It was just that the OP bumped it and I was testing out a theory.

[InvaderErl]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Yeah Gears of War 2 was a step down in story and in gameplay IMO. The storyline and characters were just ehhhhh (I mean Carmine and Cole, seriously guys?) and the gameplay didn't have the tightness of the first game. To me gears 2 felt like it was on rails.

Also everything I said (with the exception of the Duke Nukem comment) is the opposite of what I think. It was just that the OP bumped it and I was testing out a theory.

Heh, I was getting seriously confused for a minute.

[Symbolz]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Ecael wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Valve! For not releasing Episode 3 and making everyone suffer!

3D Realms, for never releasing Duke Nukem Forever!

Those bastards!

WILL I EVER BE ABLE TO USE A SHRINKING GUN AGAIN?

and no Ratchet and Clank doesn't count

Ooh I miss the shrink gun.  Ahhh, fond memories. 

[Karstedt]

Urazz wrote...
--snipped for irrelevance--

How dare you try to bring actual "points" into this conversation! This discussion is about baseless opinions stated as fact, like:

JeanLuc761 wrote...
I will never understand how people complain about lack of character
development when it was easily twice as good in ME2 (except for
Shepard).

Be like JeanLuc761, and quite wasting our time with actual "points" and examples.

[Crimmsonwind]

I like Mass Effect, but Mass Effect 2 was... lacking. Great improvement of the combat system, good graphics, but where was the story? And why was ME2 turned into more of a shooter and less of an rpg?

I personally liked the old skill system better, and the higher level cap. I liked plunking points in single increments into various categories, and I liked having all those categories. But I could have lived happily with the new skill and level system if it weren't for the story, or lack thereof.

Now that we've come down off the hype, we're starting to see some problems. For one (SPOILER) was it really necessary to actually kill you off and bring you back? It was a nice way to help you rebuild your character for ME2, but they don't really discuss it again in the game other than some occasional mentioning with TIM. You'd think you'd get more of a chance to talk about something like that. I thought the intro was actually pretty epic and it definitely jarred me a bit when I first saw it, but I wonder why they didn't expand upon it more.

The Collectors kind of came out of left field. People have told me that they're mentioned in the books, and I know they're touched on in the Redemption comics because I'm reading them, but it's a little weird to just introduce a new, and rather large, enemy. They were cool and I really liked the idea, but why didn't we at least hear about them in the first game? Yes, technically our first encounter with them is about 3 weeks after the end of the first game, but I dunno. I'm a stickler for that kind of thing.

I could go on for a while about the things that I'm starting to realize were less than optimal, but in short, by the end of the second game, you're kind of back where you started. You've got a crew, a ship, and you're going to fight the Reapers. The second game was almost like a filler to get to the third game. This is all just my opinion, though.

Not exactly BioWare's finest work when it comes to story, I think. I'd rather
they didn't worry so much about drawing in new players, and rather just
build a great game on top of and furthering what they have established now. They have two generations of crew members to deal with now, a lot of irritated players who felt like they got shafted in terms of dealing with their ME1 love interests, the most apathetic council of aliens in existence... When ME3 rolls around, instead of making a game that welcomes new players who haven't touched ME1 or ME2, they should make the best goddamn game they have ever made that is deep, immersive, actually deals with the Reapers, and uses they player's now-extensive character history to create a mind-blowing third act. If they want to bring in new players so badly, they should have some special sales on ME1 & 2 to get people to buy it if they haven't already.

Bah. *angry old man fist shake*

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 25 mars 2010 - 01:34 .

[JeanLuc761]

Karstedt wrote...

Urazz wrote...
--snipped for irrelevance--

How dare you try to bring actual "points" into this conversation! This discussion is about baseless opinions stated as fact, like:

JeanLuc761 wrote...
I will never understand how people complain about lack of character
development when it was easily twice as good in ME2 (except for
Shepard).

Be like JeanLuc761, and quite wasting our time with actual "points" and examples.

Ah, I see how this is going to go...sorry OP.

If you want points and examples.
Mass Effect 1 character development:
-4-6 one on one conversations throughout the game.
- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time
- No real "personal" missions for you to learn about your squadmates (Wrex, Tali and Garrus's were meh at best)
- Who really changed by the end of Mass Effect 1?  Ashley and Garrus were really the only ones who seemed different.

Mass Effect 2 character development:
- Recruit missions where you learn about how the character operates.
- 4-8 conversations on the Normandy (Mordin has 8)
- Loyalty missions which generally give exceptional character development (Looking at you Mordin and Tali)
- Every single character had been influenced by you or the storyline by the end of the game.

In my opinion (I'm hard-pressed to state it as fact), the loyalty missions alone are greater characterization than the entirety of Mass Effect 1 for most characters.

There's your "points and examples."

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 25 mars 2010 - 01:38 .

[Ecael]

Karstedt wrote...

Did any of you read that article some years back in PCG where a guy still had his pre-order Duke coupon? They had a pic and everything. He keeps it in his wallet. I believe the company responded and said that they will still honor it (if it ever comes out that is).

Pre-order Duke coupon from where? Funcoland?

[Raphael diSanto]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

The Collectors kind of came out of left field. People have told me that they're mentioned in the books, and I know they're touched on in the Redemption comics because I'm reading them, but it's a little weird to just introduce a new, and rather large, enemy. They were cool and I really liked the idea, but why didn't we at least hear about them in the first game?

I've always suspected that the answer to this question is:

"Because when we originally wrote ME1, X years ago, we hadn't come up with the idea of the Collectors yet. If we went back and re-wrote ME1 now, knowing what we know about ME2, we'd put more foreshadowing for them in there. The books and comics are our attempt at getting ME1 to ME2 plot content out there that probably should have been in ME1, but when we did ME1 we didn't have the entire trilogy written."

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 25 mars 2010 - 01:41 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

...funcoland

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 25 mars 2010 - 01:40 .

[Crimmsonwind]

Raphael diSanto wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

The Collectors kind of came out of left field. People have told me that they're mentioned in the books, and I know they're touched on in the Redemption comics because I'm reading them, but it's a little weird to just introduce a new, and rather large, enemy. They were cool and I really liked the idea, but why didn't we at least hear about them in the first game?

I've always suspected that the answer to this question is: "Because when we originally wrote ME1, X years ago, we hadn't come up with the idea of the Collectors yet"

Yeah, I know -.- I'm sure that's exactly it.

Also, way to break the page somebody.

[InvaderErl]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time

So was Liara in regards to the Asari.

In fact I always said the most entertaining ME1 characters were Wrex and Garrus, who surprise surprise were written by Mac Walters.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 mars 2010 - 01:43 .

[Crimmsonwind]

InvaderErl wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time

So was Liara in regards to the Asari.

In fact I always said the
most entertaining ME1 characters were Wrex and Garrus, who surprise
surprise were written by Mac Walters.

Liara is a scientist, and she's 106 years old. She's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia. XD

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 25 mars 2010 - 01:45 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

"My people have spent ages looking for a planet to call home, if they found this one... eh we'd probably search elsewhere"

[JeanLuc761]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time

So was Liara.

In fact I always said the most entertaining ME1 characters were Wrex and Garrus, who surprise surprise were written by Mac Walters.

Liara is a scientist, and she's 106 years old. She's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia. XD

And Tali is the only quarian you meet in ALL of Mass Effect 1, so to be fair her character could believably be used as said encyclopedia.

That doesn't change the fact that neither Tali nor Liara really changed by the end of the game.

[Crimmsonwind]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time

So was Liara.

In fact I always said the most entertaining ME1 characters were Wrex and Garrus, who surprise surprise were written by Mac Walters.

Liara is a scientist, and she's 106 years old. She's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia. XD

And Tali is the only quarian you meet in ALL of Mass Effect 1, so to be fair her character could believably be used as said encyclopedia.

That doesn't change the fact that neither Tali nor Liara really changed by the end of the game.

They changed in ME2.

[InvaderErl]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time

So was Liara in regards to the Asari.

In fact I always said the
most entertaining ME1 characters were Wrex and Garrus, who surprise
surprise were written by Mac Walters.

Liara is a scientist, and she's 106 years old. She's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia. XD

Aaaaaaand? It certainly didn't add anything to her character hearing about the Asari mating process and considering she's only got 3 conversations (2 if you're not romancing her) plus two side bars that's not leaving much time for characterization.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 mars 2010 - 01:49 .

[Crimmsonwind]

InvaderErl wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

- Tali was a walking quarian encyclopedia half the time

So was Liara in regards to the Asari.

In fact I always said the
most entertaining ME1 characters were Wrex and Garrus, who surprise
surprise were written by Mac Walters.

Liara is a scientist, and she's 106 years old. She's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia. XD

Aaaaaaand? It certainly didn't add anything to her character hearing about the Asari mating and considering she's only got 3 conversations (2 if you're not romancing her) plus two side bars that's not leaving much time for characertization.

I didn't say I wouldn't mind more conversations, I'm just saying I can understand why the dialogue is there. She's your only asari crewmate, just like Tali is your only quarian. I wouldn't just walk up to an asari and be like, "Hey, can you tell me how you mate?" At least Liara is your pseudo-friend. I was just making a joke. Gawd.

I would have liked more characterization in the first game, the same depth that they created in the second. But that won't happen.

[InvaderErl]

At least not until my time machine is complete.

[Bigdoser]

CarpeOmnios wrote...

You all suck, there's nothing wrong with writing a thread in appreciation to Bioware and the great job they've done with the Mass Effect franchise. Stop being killjoys.

I thoroughly enjoyed ME/ME 2. Yes, there are small parts that I feel personally can be improved, but you know what? That happens in every game. Game developers aren't super-human; there's always going to be one or two glitches in the gameplay.

I don't care. They've done really well and I can play these games over and over without getting bored. *gives thumbs up*

I agree too many people on this forum have sticks up their asses <_<

[Crimmsonwind]

Bigdoser wrote...

CarpeOmnios wrote...

You all suck, there's nothing wrong with writing a thread in appreciation to Bioware and the great job they've done with the Mass Effect franchise. Stop being killjoys.

I thoroughly enjoyed ME/ME 2. Yes, there are small parts that I feel personally can be improved, but you know what? That happens in every game. Game developers aren't super-human; there's always going to be one or two glitches in the gameplay.

I don't care. They've done really well and I can play these games over and over without getting bored. *gives thumbs up*

I agree too many people on this forum have sticks up their asses <_<

Care to join us? You stop feeling the stick after a couple of days, and it really does become quite  a comfortable lifestyle.