155 réponses à ce sujet

[13Dannyboy13]

I'd have to say I love and hate this game at the same time. It's a great game don't get me wrong, but the bugs and the total lack of patches to fix anything has really cheapened the experience for me. I mean I've been waiting five months to build a pure archer, which I can't because we still don't have the fix for the dex bug even though it was in a patch that strangely console players didn't get.

Awakenings was fun, but had a very rushed feel and new bugs. (sigh)

I love the game when it works like it should, but then the bugs kick in and I start hating, then I spend hours searching for workarounds, hate some more, and love the game when I can get into it again. If this game gets the fixes it needs, there's no doubt it will be a classic when it comes to rpgs, I just hope that the fixes do come, been waiting a long time so far and nothing yet.

[jawlz]

Hmmm.... my impressions of the expansion aren't nearly so bad as those of the OP. I think it was overpriced ($40), buggy/glitchy (was transported at random on some maps to conversations with characters that shouldn't have happened until much later; starfang/crafted sword model problem, and the ending movie looped for me over and over and over again), a bit short (this is more in relation to the price than anything else I guess), and not enough exposition throughout the expansion (instead I got 80% of it in the last hour of the story).

That said, it also wasn't bad, and I'm seeing nowhere near an 80% hate level. Maybe there's only a 20% 'LOVE!!!' level among those who play it, but that doesn't mean the other 80% is sheer hatred. A bit more time polishing and fixing bugs and a 25% price cut and I would have absolutely nothing to really  complain about. As it is, I was still happy enough to get a new DA fix.

Modifié par jawlz, 28 mars 2010 - 06:07 .

[Lucy Glitter]

It's both good and bad.



Story is really great, companions are okayish, but the "continuity" and bugs is woeful.



All in all, it was rushed.

[Sabriana]

I don't have it (yet), but I don't hate it. I watched a few play-throughs, and played through on a friend's computer. Naturally, I couldn't use an import, but it was in the "meh-okayish" range of game play.

I heartily disliked the new dialogue style. A mix of both (DA:O and DA:OA) would be fine, imo, but as it is now in Awakening - no, just...no. I don't like the lack of personal inter/intra actions. Neither the companions nor the PC grows/changes in any significant way. Yes, I am a story-player, and I always will be.

One of the play-throughs I watched involved a friend's dwarf noble. The lack on continuity was jarring at some points. For example, my friend interupted game-play to reload when acquiring Oghren. He thought his game glitched. Because when he left off DA:O, his dwarf and Oghren were at 100+ approval, yet, when meeting again, Oghren was at 0. That's just one example though, there is far more disconnect to be encountered.

Overall, I'll rather wait for the bug-fixes, price-drop, and mods. I'm quite content with that plan of mine. So no, I've not bought it yet, but I most likely will, or put it on my Christmas list. While being underwhelmed, I still think it has its merits, and I definitely don't hate it.

[edeheusch]

13Dannyboy13 wrote...

I'd have to say I love and hate this game at the same time. It's a great game don't get me wrong, but the bugs and the total lack of patches to fix anything has really cheapened the experience for me. I mean I've been waiting five months to build a pure archer, which I can't because we still don't have the fix for the dex bug even though it was in a patch that strangely console players didn't get.
Awakenings was fun, but had a very rushed feel and new bugs. (sigh)
I love the game when it works like it should, but then the bugs kick in and I start hating, then I spend hours searching for workarounds, hate some more, and love the game when I can get into it again. If this game gets the fixes it needs, there's no doubt it will be a classic when it comes to rpgs, I just hope that the fixes do come, been waiting a long time so far and nothing yet.

I agree completely with the post of 13Dannyboy13, I have suffered from the Silverite Mines lost gears bug (which is avoidable by loading a previous save) and from the +100 approval bug (which seems not avoidable at all).

I understand that no game is bug free but, at least, I would like to be able to finish more that half my playgrounds without suffering major bug and it is not the case with DAO Awakening 1.03.!
How long it will take to Bioware to fix these major bugs of DAOA will be one of the main factors I will consider before buying any new Bioware title.

Modifié par edeheusch, 28 mars 2010 - 10:17 .

[Layn]

David Gaider wrote...

They sold as well as we expected
them to, which is why there was a much smaller team working on the NWN
expansions than on NWN itself. The main team which worked on NWN was on
another full project.

ooooh was it dragon age? wait... why am i guessing? whatever game it was, we already got it

otis0310 wrote...

The characters are, bad, to be nice about it.

nah the characters were good. But we just hardly got to know them. They were just... soldiers, standing there, waiting for the next mission. and on the mission they MIGHT talk about themselves, MAYBE.

Modifié par Crrash, 28 mars 2010 - 11:33 .

[Adanu]

I only have one major complaint for Awakening... and that is not even s omuch as a nod towards most of the choices made in Origins. I can understand this for Orlesian Wardens, but not for imported characters. The scrapped letters are one point that I simply cannot understand... if I can't expect such from the first expansion, I'm very worried about the next one, if there is one.



I'm really hoping Bioware simply dropped the balls on this one, David... if it happens again, I'm pretty sure you'll be seeing a lot more pissed off fans. Advancing story is fine, but if we have an old character... we like to see as many choices as possible get reflected.

[Dark Lilith]

VampireCommando wrote...

hey i liked awakenings and fell in love with DA:O, i know there are problems with it but i think that the majority of people expected way too much of awakenings, it is only an expansion after all.

when you expect much,your bound to be let down.

[darkshadow136]

I love their full games, but their DLC's and expansions leave a lot to be desired.

[SithLordExarKun]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

It's both good and bad.

Story is really great, companions are okayish, but the "continuity" and bugs is woeful.

All in all, it was rushed.

Are you on pc or console?

[spirit-dog]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

It's both good and bad.

Story is really great, companions are okayish, but the "continuity" and bugs is woeful.

All in all, it was rushed.

I tend to agree here, and for the record I play on PC.    I enjoy it but not in the same way I enojy Origins, but I'm also not going to go into my own personal grumbels because there is no point in this thread.

[Rogue Roxy]

I have Awakening, but, because I'm in the middle of a DA:O run with the character I intend to play Awakening first, it'll be awhile before I get to it. I'm sure, in the meantime, a patch will be offered because, let's face it, checking EVERY bug for EVERY platform takes time. People seem to forget that, thinking it's a simple fix, and should be patched yesterday.

In any case, I'm happy to wait it out while I complete my current run-through. Also, for the record, I won't hesitate to get ANY new DLC, expansions, etc. from Bioware for DA because everything they've put out to date has thoroughly entertained me. Call me a fan, or whatever, but the fact remains that I've never been disappointed with any Bioware game I've played.

~ Roxy

[DragonRageGT]

For one who might have been spoiled by some classic Bioware expansions like Shadows of the Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark... I'd expect more! SoU had one major bug in one area that made the game unplayable and it was fixed in a matter of days! HotU had no issue that I can remember and still, NWN is famous for all those amazing patches that added so much to the game.



What on earth happened to BioWare???

[JBurke]

I liked the expansion. Not as much as Origins, but I did like it. I would have preferred they spend another 4 or 5 months adding actual story to it so it would feel more like Origins, but I'm happy with the overall result. I do hope that the next expansion feels more like Origins and that I'll be able to tranfer my Awakening character over when the time comes, because it really didn't feel like I got a chance to enjoy all my new skills and equipment to their fullest.

RageGT wrote...

What on earth happened to BioWare???

EA! Uh oh! I said it! I'm just kidding though. 

[BooPi]

You're thinking 50% for expansions for multiplayer games. They sell higher, because to stay in the online community, you basically have to buy the expansion (I.e., if MW2 put out an expansion pack that segregated the community, a lot of people would buy it just so they could keep playing online with their friends). That's also kind of the case with MMOs too, but not as much because they often won't require you to buy the expansions to play with someone who has bought them. On the other hand, there's an argument to be made for the social pressure to buy an expansion in a game like that.



Either way, for a single player RPG, there's nothing like that nudging a customer toward buying an expansion. It's simply a matter of buying a new 15 hour game or not. So I'm not surprised there's lower expectations.



That being said, part of the reason a lot of people prefer single-player games like DA:O is not just for the story and stellar execution and because they like the experience, but also as a kind of revolt against games like WoW that push stuff on you so heavily. (As in, for example, Blizzard consulting with experts on gambling etcetera to create addictive--oh, I'm sorry, *rewarding*--gameplay patterns.) That might be part of the reason why there's been some vocal blowback against DA DLC even though it's been, I think, handled very well.

[Dallo]

David Gaider wrote...

Dallo wrote...
What about the Nwn expansions?  I feel certain they would've sold quite well.

They sold as well as we expected them to, which is why there was a much smaller team working on the NWN expansions than on NWN itself. The main team which worked on NWN was on another full project.

There are more than 4000 playable, community made modules, many with DL counts > 100k.  This doesn't include the many PWs and other products made exclusively for DMed sessions.

As someone who made one of those modules I know that modders are usually keen to incorporate any new material included in expansions, thus necessitating any would-be players to also purchase them.  Seems to me, then, that SoU and HotU would've performed quite well, certainly better than the 10-20% that you quote.

Modders are great for building a community and giving a game longevity, but the number of people who modded for NWN or who ever played those mods was only ever a small portion compared to the total that bought NWN (or its expansions). I know it can seem like everyone is involved when you're part of the online community, because that's all you're seeing, but the numbers just don't bear out, sorry.

Surprising...

I would've thought the longevity of NwN, created as you say by modders and the community which grew around them, would've been important in maintaining relatively strong sales over years for the original OC and both its expansions.

My reason for this assumption is based on the continued growth of Bioware community members/users as the years went by.  In 2002 iirc, when the original was released, there were less than a million registered users.  Some years later there had been a four fold increase in those numbers - again, iirc - indicating to me at least that the community itself (and its astonishing creativity) had a sigificant impact.  In fact, from my point of view, 2005-2006  was the 'golden age' of NwN.  Of course, 'registered user' numbers eventually would've reflected games other than NwN, but even so...

Obviously I'm not disputing the veracity of your comments.  Just surprised is all...

Cheers!

[Nothon]

I loved Origins and have been greatly enjoying Awakening. I would like to see more D&D stuff--because it's easier for me to get into a 'role' mindset if I am already used to the rules of the game universe (so to speak)--but I feel confident that the company will continue to produce games that set new standards for quality.

[keesio74]

I loved DA:O. I really liked DA:A. Is it as good as DA:O? No. But it held it's own. And I will count the days down to DA 2. I am forever in BioWare's debt for creating a modern complex fantasy RPG.

[sami jo]

David Gaider wrote...
On the order of 10-20% of the sales of the original game, if I'm not mistaken -- though normally they come out much later than Awakenings did, compared to the release of the original. It will be interesting to see how that affects sales, if it does. But, yes, expansions only sell a small percentage of the original sales. Most people never pick them up, no matter how much they enjoyed the original. The opinions of our most ardent fans that you find here on the forums (as much as we love you guys) don't really reflect the opinions of the average user -- but I'm sure that's self-evident.

The vast majority of people who purchased the original game are probably not active on the forums, that is true; and the views of the most ardent fans here on this site may well not reflect the views of those consumers.  But, if your numbers are correct, I would suggest that the vast majority of your target audience for this expansion is actually on this forum.  The hardcore ardent fans are the ones who will shell out money for an expansion.  The average users will wait for it to hit the bargain bin if they pick it up at all. 

And it isn't just the rabid fans who are decidedly "meh" about this expansion.  It is getting ho-hum reviews from all of the major review sites--the same sites that gave Origins excellent reviews.  That is what the "average" gamer is going to be looking at when deciding whether or not it is worth it to drop $40 on the expansion.

I don't *hate* Awakenings.  I don't love it either.  There is clearly a problem with beta testing that has yet to be addressed, because this game is full of bugs that are not rare.  In fact, I have yet to hear of anyone who hasn't run in to them.  Sigrun's quest will be impossible to complete if you complete the very first quest you get in Amaranthine before you get her.  The final NPC you pick up will not be able to undergo the joining unless you return to camp with him/her before you complete the area in which s/he joins, thus leaving that quest uncompleted and uncompletable.  Others, like the silverite mine glitch and Valenna's random encounter not ever triggering are so common that I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have been picked up with sufficient beta testing. 

My decisions in Origins have had almost no impact in Awakenings, contrary to what was advertised.  My epilogue for Awakenings is completely incompatible with my epilogue for Origins.  The inconsistencies aren't as jarring for my Orlesian warden, but unlike Origins, which I have played through a frightening number of times, I have no real desire to finish out the playthrough.  I might eventually, but I know the basic story now and I'm pretty indifferent about how different choices would play out.  Contrast this with Origins where I wanted to see for myself how all the possible choices would play out. 

The really sad part is that Awakenings could  have been amazing.  I liked the NPCs, though I'm not all that invested in them.  The story was interesting, poorly paced, but interesting.  The game needed a little bit more time in the dev's hands to polish it.  And if that is what is going to happen to everything else that is released by this franchise, it is going to kill sales, because it is pissing off the hardcore fans who are the 10-20% of your original sales who hang out on this site and who are trying really hard to tell you what we are happy to spend our hard earned money on.  The further you get from the release of the original, the more it is going to be this "rabid" fan base that you are selling to.  If you try to please the most ardent fans, you have guaranteed sales and happy customers who will use word of mouth to give you better advertising than any amount of money can buy.  That was what turned DA:O into such a phenomenon. 

And really, it isn't all that clear that the opinions of the vocal few who frequent this site aren't the opinions of the silent masses who do not.  They are, after all, apathetic enough to remain silent.

[Dallo]

Excellent post, sami jo.

[Lucy Glitter]

sami jo wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
On the order of 10-20% of the sales of the original game, if I'm not mistaken -- though normally they come out much later than Awakenings did, compared to the release of the original. It will be interesting to see how that affects sales, if it does. But, yes, expansions only sell a small percentage of the original sales. Most people never pick them up, no matter how much they enjoyed the original. The opinions of our most ardent fans that you find here on the forums (as much as we love you guys) don't really reflect the opinions of the average user -- but I'm sure that's self-evident.

The vast majority of people who purchased the original game are probably not active on the forums, that is true; and the views of the most ardent fans here on this site may well not reflect the views of those consumers.  But, if your numbers are correct, I would suggest that the vast majority of your target audience for this expansion is actually on this forum.  The hardcore ardent fans are the ones who will shell out money for an expansion.  The average users will wait for it to hit the bargain bin if they pick it up at all. 

And it isn't just the rabid fans who are decidedly "meh" about this expansion.  It is getting ho-hum reviews from all of the major review sites--the same sites that gave Origins excellent reviews.  That is what the "average" gamer is going to be looking at when deciding whether or not it is worth it to drop $40 on the expansion.

I don't *hate* Awakenings.  I don't love it either.  There is clearly a problem with beta testing that has yet to be addressed, because this game is full of bugs that are not rare.  In fact, I have yet to hear of anyone who hasn't run in to them.  Sigrun's quest will be impossible to complete if you complete the very first quest you get in Amaranthine before you get her.  The final NPC you pick up will not be able to undergo the joining unless you return to camp with him/her before you complete the area in which s/he joins, thus leaving that quest uncompleted and uncompletable.  Others, like the silverite mine glitch and Valenna's random encounter not ever triggering are so common that I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have been picked up with sufficient beta testing. 

My decisions in Origins have had almost no impact in Awakenings, contrary to what was advertised.  My epilogue for Awakenings is completely incompatible with my epilogue for Origins.  The inconsistencies aren't as jarring for my Orlesian warden, but unlike Origins, which I have played through a frightening number of times, I have no real desire to finish out the playthrough.  I might eventually, but I know the basic story now and I'm pretty indifferent about how different choices would play out.  Contrast this with Origins where I wanted to see for myself how all the possible choices would play out. 

The really sad part is that Awakenings could  have been amazing.  I liked the NPCs, though I'm not all that invested in them.  The story was interesting, poorly paced, but interesting.  The game needed a little bit more time in the dev's hands to polish it.  And if that is what is going to happen to everything else that is released by this franchise, it is going to kill sales, because it is pissing off the hardcore fans who are the 10-20% of your original sales who hang out on this site and who are trying really hard to tell you what we are happy to spend our hard earned money on.  The further you get from the release of the original, the more it is going to be this "rabid" fan base that you are selling to.  If you try to please the most ardent fans, you have guaranteed sales and happy customers who will use word of mouth to give you better advertising than any amount of money can buy.  That was what turned DA:O into such a phenomenon. 

And really, it isn't all that clear that the opinions of the vocal few who frequent this site aren't the opinions of the silent masses who do not.  They are, after all, apathetic enough to remain silent.

I do think this sums everything up. Great post.

I hate being... critical of BioWare. Especially the writers, as they are my favourite team but... I really agree with this post. Strongly.

[Feraele]

Lets face it Bioware...your fans are spoiled...Origins was and is a great game...your fans want more of the same. High standards...you bet your bippy. But you set the high mark yourselves..

**edit  I also have to concur with Sami jo's post.   Couldn't have said it better.

Modifié par Feraele, 29 mars 2010 - 01:13 .

[David Gaider]

sami jo wrote...
And really, it isn't all that clear that the opinions of the vocal few who frequent this site aren't the opinions of the silent masses who do not.  They are, after all, apathetic enough to remain silent.

Well, first off: whoa.

I'm not suggesting that there are no problems, or that the opinions of the fans here on these forums are to be discounted. The response you quoted was directed at the idea that the sales of an expansion should rival the sales of the original game or be counted as a failure -- and, yes, the opinions of the fans here on the forums can run into the extreme. I sympathize with the people  who didn't like the expansion as much as they thought they would (or should), but I think some of the emotional reaction found here is evidence of what I'm talking about (complimentary as it may be). While there's no evidence to suggest that the silent masses don't feel the same as the people on these forums, as you suggest, there's no evidence that they do either ... there's only evidence that they're likely to be far less emotionally invested than the people here.

That said, I'm well aware of the reaction of the people on these forums, as is BioWare in general. I only came here to respond to the notion that the sales figures quoted should "teach us a lesson" -- we have yet to see what the sales figures will teach us. ("Us" in this case being the company in general, as opposed to me personally -- I don't decide what resources are or are not offered to any project I'm working on.)

Insofar as your reaction otherwise, feel free to offer feedback, as always. For those people who are talking about bugs, I suggest reporting them on the tech support forums along with pertinent details -- that's where info on bugs is going to be collected. I'm not involved in the bug-fixing process myself, but I imagine details on what's going to happen with any potential patch are going to be forthcoming.

Modifié par David Gaider, 29 mars 2010 - 07:49 .

[DragonRageGT]

Feraele wrote...

Lets face it Bioware...your fans are spoiled...Origins was and is a great game...your fans want more of the same. High standards...you bet your bippy. But you set the high mark yourselves..

**edit  I also have to concur with Sami jo's post.   Couldn't have said it better.

Signed!

[darkshadow136]

RageGT wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Lets face it Bioware...your fans are spoiled...Origins was and is a great game...your fans want more of the same. High standards...you bet your bippy. But you set the high mark yourselves..

**edit  I also have to concur with Sami jo's post.   Couldn't have said it better.

Signed!

Yes I can also agree with this. /signed

The big problem besides all the bugs that awakenings has is that Bioware has raised the bar so much between what they designed in the way of DAO, and ME1/ME2.  People like myself that bought Awakenings at release for $39.99 feel ripped off. When charging damn near the cost of a new game for an expansion it better be damn good, and in the end with that in mind it was a big let down. I for one would have no complaints outside of the bugs if the expansion was priced at $20-$25 at launch. But for $40 we should have gotton much more than what we did.

Modifié par darkshadow136, 29 mars 2010 - 02:45 .