75 réponses à ce sujet

[gauntz]

I've always been confused by Tali since ME1 and now Jack. Unless I'm mistaken, pre-release ME1 screenshots had Tali using a sniper rifle, but it seemed to get changed at the last minute. That was okay, since Shotguns in ME1 had a ridiculous range and were very good. In ME2 both Jack and Tali have Shotguns, even as Shotguns have a very limited range and they're both almost purely casters. Lorewise I guess you can say that Jack is more of a Vanguard, but her talents doesn't reflect this; Shockwave is perhaps the most useless talent for a Vanguard and very situational (though it can be used for the interrupt effect even with defenses) and pull or warp ammo doesn't give obvious CQC advantages. Tali admittedly has Drone which is a good distraction at close range, and Shield Drain is better than Overload at close range since it does equal damage without extra effects yet replenishes shields. I'd say it would beat Overload for a Sentinel, but since both Engineer and Sentinel needs overload to unlock crucial talents it doesn't have much use. Without control though, I don't think it'll be that good for a squadmate. Last I looked, both their talents affect health, power damage and cooldowns without changing weapon damage etc.

Has anyone tried keeping them under control and using them for close range combat? My impression is that Jack is best used for pulling when making Warp Explosions and giving Squad Warp Ammo, while Shield Drain for Tali would be awkward if not used at the beginning of the fight and instead used to keep her alive. Grunt and perhaps Jacob have survival skills and combat bonuses so they can safely be used at frontlines with Shotguns, but again this seems ineffective with Tali and Jack.

[pc_wizard]

With my Infiltrator, I chose Jack in my squad for pretty much the entire game. She would always rush in the middle of the action, which proved quite useful since she drew fire away from me and I could easily snipe the enemies. This also means that she was the first to fall, but at that point it usually didn't matter. So yes, she is useful in CQC by creating a distraction rather than dealing much damage to the enemy. As for Tali, she is better off using her abilities from a distance, weakening enemies and distracting them with drones.

[Zilod]

both Tali and Jack have the usual weapon damage bonus, the problem is that in me2 the shotty is quite a crappy weapon, expecially in the hands of npcs so instead than a "bonus" to have a specialized weapon they end up with the 2 weakest weapons (well imo ofc)....



also i really dont like Tali's bonus to duration as it is pretty useless for the char... her main skills (energy drain and drone) do not benefit for such bonus (as drone is popped asap) a bonus to recharde (or even tech damage eventually) was more suited for the char. (Legion could live with duration bonus np, as barrier will benefit from it and he alredy have the OP weapon of uberness )

[Atmosfear3]

Zilod wrote...

both Tali and Jack have the usual weapon damage bonus, the problem is that in me2 the shotty is quite a crappy weapon, expecially in the hands of npcs so instead than a "bonus" to have a specialized weapon they end up with the 2 weakest weapons (well imo ofc)....

also i really dont like Tali's bonus to duration as it is pretty useless for the char... her main skills (energy drain and drone) do not benefit for such bonus (as drone is popped asap) a bonus to recharde (or even tech damage eventually) was more suited for the char. (Legion could live with duration bonus np, as barrier will benefit from it and he alredy have the OP weapon of uberness )

^ this

Jack is actually more useful than Tali since she can at least provide pull (one of the best powers), has squad warp ammo, and has a cooldown reduction passive.  Her obvious weakness is her weak choice of weapons but other than that, shes not so bad.

Tali on the other hand is quite possibly the most useless squadmate in the whole game (I'm sure the Tali-ban would hang me for saying that).  She has a drone, on a ridiculous cooldown that gets popped nearly instantly the moment it is summoned, a crowd control that works on the least common enemy type in game, and a passive which benefits her powers very little due to the mentioned facts.  Her energy drain is functional but again suffers from getting virtually no benefit from her passive and being acquired so late in the game.

Modifié par Atmosfear3, 25 mars 2010 - 10:27 .

[SirEmilCrane]

Atmosfear3 wrote...


Tali on the other hand is quite possibly the most useless squadmate in the whole game (I'm sure the Tali-ban would hang me for saying that).  She has a drone, on a ridiculous cooldown that gets popped nearly instantly the moment it is summoned, a crowd control that works on the least common enemy type in game, and a passive which benefits her powers very little due to the mentioned facts.  Her energy drain is functional but again suffers from getting virtually no benefit from her passive and being acquired so late in the game.

Tali has varying degrees of usefulness depending on your class.
As a soldier I find her incredibly useful. I'm not sure what game you are playing but in my game the combat drone lasts long enough to knock people out of cover on insanity and E-Drain is a superior overload. Also, with the Eviscerator and Squad Incindiary ammo Tali makes a lot more kills.

[Zilod]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Tali has varying degrees of usefulness depending on your class.
As a soldier I find her incredibly useful. I'm not sure what game you are playing but in my game the combat drone lasts long enough to knock people out of cover on insanity and E-Drain is a superior overload. Also, with the Eviscerator and Squad Incindiary ammo Tali makes a lot more kills.

i think too that Tali has some use.... but consider that e-drain (and AI) will stay down for all the time that drone needs to recharge... that is an huge time and in insanity the poor drone doesnt last much... i agree it is veeeeeery usefull (imo one of the best skills ingame) but with no bonus to recharge and an inferior weapon (shotgun) she cant really compete with legion. i like Tali and i tend to use her (well actually i lot of times i go with tali+legion ) but between the two there is no match... Legion is just a superior version of Tali

[phordicus]

i find switching them to pistols helps them stay back from the fray a bit. they're not really there for weapon damage anyway.

[Shep309]

^^

Same here, I've never liked the shotgun for Tali, not sure why, it just didn't seem "right" that tali is running around with a shotgun. Shepard the engineer doesn't even have access to a shotgun, so why give it to Tali the engineer? Tali should have a pistol and smg if you ask me, that seems far more likely.

As for taking Tali, even though she's one of my favorite characters she's in my party only during her loyalty mission and every now and then during the last battle if I wanna save her from falling off the platform, other than that she stays on the ship. Jack is pretty much the same way, hardly ever use her.

[Pacifien]

Jack makes sense as a shotgun user because I can see her wanting to get into CQC, but it all falls apart from her lack of Barrier. This is where the restrictions on squadmates only having four powers really suffers in the game. It also annoyed me that it was an ability I had to unlock with Jacob, meaning I couldn't play him to his full potential for half the game.

Tali using a shotgun is a carryover from the first game, which I was sort of fine about then. And I suppose I could see where the shotgun could work in theory with the second game, if it was used in conjunction with Combat Drone and Energy Drain. Unfortunately, the reality would go more like Deploy Combat Drone -> Shotgun Range -> Combat Drone Dead -> Tali Dead because Energy Drain still on cooldown.

It's really an element of the game that needs tweaking.

[Bann Duncan]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Zilod wrote...

both Tali and Jack have the usual weapon damage bonus, the problem is that in me2 the shotty is quite a crappy weapon, expecially in the hands of npcs so instead than a "bonus" to have a specialized weapon they end up with the 2 weakest weapons (well imo ofc)....

also i really dont like Tali's bonus to duration as it is pretty useless for the char... her main skills (energy drain and drone) do not benefit for such bonus (as drone is popped asap) a bonus to recharde (or even tech damage eventually) was more suited for the char. (Legion could live with duration bonus np, as barrier will benefit from it and he alredy have the OP weapon of uberness )

^ this

Jack is actually more useful than Tali since she can at least provide pull (one of the best powers), has squad warp ammo, and has a cooldown reduction passive.  Her obvious weakness is her weak choice of weapons but other than that, shes not so bad.

Tali on the other hand is quite possibly the most useless squadmate in the whole game (I'm sure the Tali-ban would hang me for saying that).  She has a drone, on a ridiculous cooldown that gets popped nearly instantly the moment it is summoned, a crowd control that works on the least common enemy type in game, and a passive which benefits her powers very little due to the mentioned facts.  Her energy drain is functional but again suffers from getting virtually no benefit from her passive and being acquired so late in the game.

Also from an RP standpoint, she'd be at risk of serious injury in any combat situation, which is a position no commander would willingly put a crewmember in with the option.

[phordicus]

really, if any race would specialize in ranged fighting and absolutely avoid melee, it'd be quarians.  i don't think BW thought that one all the way through.

Modifié par phordicus, 26 mars 2010 - 09:54 .

[gauntz]

From pre-release stuff I think Tali was meant to have a sniper rifle, but that it was changed last minute to distinguish her from Garrus.

[Zilod]

Pacifien wrote...
Tali using a shotgun is a carryover from the first game, which I was sort of fine about then. And I suppose I could see where the shotgun could work in theory with the second game, if it was used in conjunction with Combat Drone and Energy Drain. Unfortunately, the reality would go more like Deploy Combat Drone -> Shotgun Range -> Combat Drone Dead -> Tali Dead because Energy Drain still on cooldown.
It's really an element of the game that needs tweaking.

yep thats the problem.... drone is a powerfull skill but why 3s for shep and 30 for npcs? thats a x10 difference...
and shotgun is just a bad weapon while it should be a powerfull one, even in me1 it was not the best weapon around but was competitive with others and fun to use, here if you are not a vanguard using charge is not even worth considering.

i'm quite disappointed by me2 combat and char developement, not because the game is not fun to play, but because imo me1 system was way more funt to play and interesting, with the possibility to build characters and who played very differently, it have some minor flaws but imo just small things... this new system is a dumbed down one in the end and there is not much variety in playstyle... cover, spam your best skill, pew pew, spam your best skill... if then we add that npcs play on totally different rules (no ammo, different recast timers). and weapons are not balanced at all...

it seem to that this system was rushed just to have an easyer one, more similar to cod and all other shooter out there... you have even to just take cover to heal

/end rant, but i really hope bioware will chose to go back to a system more similar to me1 for the next chapter

[SirEmilCrane]

Playing through insanity, Tali as a permanent squad member.

Thoughts:

E-Drain is really useful

Not sure what game you guys are playing, in mine the Combat Drone lasts long enough to distract enemies for quite some time, the stun lazer thing prevents them from attacking it

Squad Incendiary Ammo helps a lot

[Tlazolteotl]

Quarians don't use shotguns. Tali is an exception' she just wanted one, ok?

Besides, in ME1 you needed to put 6 points in pistols before unlocking shotgun .. (she could just use one regardless, but what's the point without carnage?)



Just saying .. her main weapon is meant to be pistol.

[lastpawn]

Tali uses a shotgun in ME2 because she uses a shotgun in ME1. Why does she use a shotgun in ME1? I have no clue. She has some uses as a teammate though, especially with her special.

[Tlazolteotl]

Tali had a ridiculous amount of shield strength in ME1 .. bonus from Quarian machinist and electronics.
That and throw in damping and sabotage .. = difficult to take down before you take some shells to the face (not that headshots did anything in ME1).
Remember that ME1 characters often used nothing but pistols ... Tali just wanted extra firepower.

Edit: I meant electronics ..
Also, I forgot that really high # of shields + shield boost = equivalent of barrier.

Modifié par Tlazolteotl, 28 mars 2010 - 07:40 .

[SirEmilCrane]

Someone somewhere decided she would use shot guns, they are now her iconic weapon.Because I like here character I experiment with getting the most out of her. I find that maxing Combat drone, E-Drain and Passive is the way to go, ignore hacking.

Also, Squad Ammo really helps

[Tlazolteotl]

Heh .. I like legion's drone, but tali's has too long a recharge.

So I usually end up maxing ai hack and energy drain, leaving her passive on 3.

[SirEmilCrane]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Heh .. I like legion's drone, but tali's has too long a recharge.
So I usually end up maxing ai hack and energy drain, leaving her passive on 3.

Legion comes to late to have much use

[Atmosfear3]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Heh .. I like legion's drone, but tali's has too long a recharge.
So I usually end up maxing ai hack and energy drain, leaving her passive on 3.

Legion comes to late to have much use

So does Tali, hence why she's awful.

[SirEmilCrane]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...

Heh .. I like legion's drone, but tali's has too long a recharge.
So I usually end up maxing ai hack and energy drain, leaving her passive on 3.

Legion comes to late to have much use

So does Tali, hence why she's awful.

I respctfully disagree
Use E-drain, it works wonders, combat drone can tie up a scion because everytime the scion goes to attack the drone stun beam resets it attack animation, meaning it never actually attacks

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

you can still make tali equip a sniper rifle in mass1. it's just that she won't have any skills in it like garrus or ashley.

[Atmosfear3]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

I respctfully disagree
Use E-drain, it works wonders, combat drone can tie up a scion because everytime the scion goes to attack the drone stun beam resets it attack animation, meaning it never actually attacks

What does E-drain do for me against Scions/husks/collectors?  Certainly won't help me on Tali's recruitment or loyalty mission for that matter since she won't have it when it would be most effective.  So that leaves you with what, blue suns mercs side missions?.

Like I said, I won't deny that her skills are useful (and I say use that word loosely, her powers are so situational its laughable), but a) you acquire Tali too late in the game, you unlock E-drain late as well, and c) her passive is terrible in comparison to Legion who has cooldown reduction instead of increased duration.

[Dasher10]

hopefully there will be an expansion that raises level cap and lets squaddies use their two empty ability slots. I say give Tali Incinerate to deal with organics as well as Disruptor Ammo.