396 réponses à ce sujet

[Barbarossa]

    I just wanted to say that I feel somewhat cheated by the fact that both of the rogues(Leliana and Zevran) in my storyline have to die.  I could not let Zevran live after trying to kill my character.  Now I am at the urn of sacred ashes and have explored all of my options trying to keep Leliana and doing the right thing of defiling the ashes of andraste and thus destroying part of the idiotic monotheistic religion that the people of Fereldan follow.  Alas, it looks as if I must finish the game without a rogue to unlock chests and disable traps if I want to feel like I have made the story my own.

    I feel shorted because of this fact:  I get two rogues to choose from, but both of them have serious flaws that make them unusable for me, but I get 4 warriors to choose from.  I understand that warrriors have a slightly more varied use as they can be ranged, dps, or tanks.  Seriously though Zevran and Leliana?  I am on my first playthrough, so I don't really know that Zevran would be an uninteresting companion, but he tried to kill my character!  Alright, done ranting. 

P.S.  Great soundtrack, I can think of only one rpg that had a soundtrack I enjoyed as much and that came out almost a decade ago; the third elder scrolls game.

[Addai]

Choices have consequences.

[Chasseresse]

You need to play the game more. You might change your mind on Zev, Leliana, and/or the Urn of Sacred Ashes. I think you are making things more difficult than need be

[AnniLau]

Well, I like Zev much better, but you can also leave Leliana in camp and, if your Coercion is high enough, successfully lie to her about what happened.

[Ceridraen]

You know you can switch your party members outside where you fight the high dragon, right? Just run out, switch her, & she'll never be the wiser. I never thought reaver was worth it myself - I just did it once to get it open, then didn't keep that save.

[EnchantedEyes1]

I made similar mistakes in my first playthrough. I learned to find out more about my possible companions before just killing them or sending them away.

[Barbarossa]

I did try leaving her at camp, but she leaves once I get back as my coercion is only at 2 (sort of feel like I wasted that second skill point right now, we'll see though). I should've tried to harden her, but I didn't really know that was a possibility. Just sort've played her little game as she was never my biggest fan. I also killed Wynne, sort of happened by accident, didn't really feel like fixing it though as she was a loyalist.



I understand letting some people live and use as tools, but I couldn't justify letting Zevran live after his act. I killed Kolgrim as well, because he could've become too powerful and wasn't willing to be an ally. If I don't defile the ashes though then the Chantry gains more power after I almost completely destroyed the Circle of Magi.



As you can probably tell my character has delusions of grandeur and aspires to be the puppeteer behind Alistair's throne. Really is a good game, but some of the choices seem to make me favor the easier path instead of following a legitimate philosophy.



Another sidenote: more games need characters like Sten and Morrigan.

[Venatio]

You should have let Zev live, he doesnt give lick spittle about defiling the Urn of Sacred Ashes. Hell, he even agrees with siding with Kolgrims followers.

[Volourn]

"doing the right thing of defiling"



L0LZ





P.S. Zev deserves to die. Scumbag murderer.

[Addai]

Barbarossa wrote...

I did try leaving her at camp, but she leaves once I get back as my coercion is only at 2 (sort of feel like I wasted that second skill point right now, we'll see though).

Coercion is never wasted.  You will want to max it.

I understand letting some people live and use as tools, but I couldn't justify letting Zevran live after his act.

RP is one thing, of course, but Zevran is probably the most deadly NPC you can pick up.  He also becomes one of the most loyal once befriended.  Not to spoiler you, either, but his reasons for the attack on your character are not all they appear to be.

If my dwarf noble can put her scumbag brother on the throne, even a power-hungry PC can find a reason to let someone who tried to kill you live. 

As you can probably tell my character has delusions of grandeur and aspires to be the puppeteer behind Alistair's throne. Really is a good game, but some of the choices seem to make me favor the easier path instead of following a legitimate philosophy.

Not sure I know what you mean?  It sounds to me like you're taking a rather difficult path.

I do love Sten and Morrigan.

[sylvanaerie]

Barbarossa wrote...

I did try leaving her at camp, but she leaves once I get back as my coercion is only at 2 (sort of feel like I wasted that second skill point right now, we'll see though). I should've tried to harden her, but I didn't really know that was a possibility. Just sort've played her little game as she was never my biggest fan. I also killed Wynne, sort of happened by accident, didn't really feel like fixing it though as she was a loyalist.

I understand letting some people live and use as tools, but I couldn't justify letting Zevran live after his act. I killed Kolgrim as well, because he could've become too powerful and wasn't willing to be an ally. If I don't defile the ashes though then the Chantry gains more power after I almost completely destroyed the Circle of Magi.

As you can probably tell my character has delusions of grandeur and aspires to be the puppeteer behind Alistair's throne. Really is a good game, but some of the choices seem to make me favor the easier path instead of following a legitimate philosophy.

Another sidenote: more games need characters like Sten and Morrigan.

Whether you defile the ashes or not it doesn't change things with the chantry.  If you don't want Brother Genetivi letting out the location of the ashes, don't take him with you to the Temple.  And when you go to Denerim don't follow up with seeing him.  For all he knows then his information was wrong.  Nothing comes of it.  Also I leave the High Dragon alive each playthrough cause hehe let them stupid Chantry fools try to get to the ashes with a dragon breathing down their necks lol

Plus if you killed/ran off both your rogues with the choices you made...then you have to live with the consequences there.  Hard lesson but it mirrors life that way too.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 mars 2010 - 09:52 .

[elearon1]

I let Zev live in my first playthrough because the way my character saw it, an assassin is no more to blame for trying to kill me than a sword ... do I smash every sword at the end of a battle? No. The people responsible for sending him after me are those I should want to punish. If he had died in the fight that is one thing, but he did not and his services could doubtlessly be useful.

I disagree that destroying the ashes is the right thing, considering you need them to save the Aerl and you need his forces to unseat Loghain.

But even so, your character made decisions with consequences - you have to live with them. The choices in the game wouldn't mean much if there were no repercussions. You were given two potential rogue allies and you made decisions that deprived you of both; you can't then claim it is unfair, as if the options to keep them where beyond your control. The npcs have personalities, that is one of the prices for them being more than 1 dimensional cardboard cutouts.

If it breaks your game that much and you can't tolerate living with the repercussions of your actions, there is a mod on the Dragon Age Nexus that allows you to bash locks.

Modifié par elearon1, 25 mars 2010 - 09:56 .

[sami jo]

Volourn wrote...

P.S. Zev deserves to die. Scumbag murderer.

"Scumbag murderer"  You mean like Sten (slaughtered an entire family in Lothering who were just trying to help him), Morrigan (dead Templars seem to riddle the Wilds), Lelianna (recall how it was she found her way to the Chantry), Shale (Wilhelm rendered into a pile of goo), oh, and let's not forget the PC who has certainly done more than his/her share of slaughtering by the end of the game.  In fact, depending on your origin, you may well have been a murderer before you even became a Warden.

Using your logic, your entire party should be demon poop.

[sami jo]

You can't really blame the game for rogue NPCs behaving like, well, rogues. Take a long look at their class skills and specializations and think about how an individual with those skills is likely to behave. You are trying to stop a Blight. For a Grey Warden, that is suppose to be the only goal that matters. Hopping on a moral high horse is likely to make it harder to achieve that goal.

[Serissia]

There's also a mod that lets you unlock locks with a spell if you're a mage I believe.



I always just play rogues myself so, I don't have to worry about npc rogues. Not to mention that the npcs are horrid at flanking.

[sylvanaerie]

sami jo wrote...

You can't really blame the game for rogue NPCs behaving like, well, rogues. Take a long look at their class skills and specializations and think about how an individual with those skills is likely to behave. You are trying to stop a Blight. For a Grey Warden, that is suppose to be the only goal that matters. Hopping on a moral high horse is likely to make it harder to achieve that goal.

Except he doesn't seem to be doing the moral thing, it seems like he's playing his PC as power hungry and kind of playing "evil".  Unless I read his post wrong.  He doesn't seem to object to them being rogues its more an objection to them 1) being hired to kill him (BTW I was angrier at his employer, not at Zevran)  and 2) his other rogue having a different opinion about the Chantry than he did.

[Addai]

elearon1 wrote...

I let Zev live in my first playthrough because the way my character saw it, an assassin is no more to blame for trying to kill me than a sword ... do I smash every sword at the end of a battle? No. The people responsible for sending him after me are those I should want to punish. If he had died in the fight that is one thing, but he did not and his services could doubtlessly be useful.

My nobles, especially the dwarves, understand the need for assassins and that they are just doing a job.  The human nobles also want to do a good thing.  My elves hear his story and understand that he had little choice in the life he was leading, and when given a choice, he says he wants a way out.  Naturally, that doesn't mean any of them trust him fully.  He still has to prove himself.

My city elf was the most intuitive about him.  She took one look at the shoddy mockery of an assassination attempt, heard his story, and suspected what he really was trying to do.

[Addai]

Serissia wrote...

There's also a mod that lets you unlock locks with a spell if you're a mage I believe.

I always just play rogues myself so, I don't have to worry about npc rogues. Not to mention that the npcs are horrid at flanking.

Rogues have the best fighting skills.  Lockpick is only an added bonus.  Even my PC rogues travel with another rogue or two in the party- Zevran in Origins, and now Nathaniel and Sigrun in Awakening.

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

Serissia wrote...

There's also a mod that lets you unlock locks with a spell if you're a mage I believe.

I always just play rogues myself so, I don't have to worry about npc rogues. Not to mention that the npcs are horrid at flanking.

Rogues have the best fighting skills.  Lockpick is only an added bonus.  Even my PC rogues travel with another rogue or two in the party- Zevran in Origins, and now Nathaniel and Sigrun in Awakening.

Nate and Sigrun were awesome. Hes KILLER with that bow of his!!!  Zevran is INSANE dps and his AI makes him go after things attacking your PC so it keeps the heat off you (esp if you are a squishy mage and Al is busy with 5 or 6 mobs of his own).  It gives the feel of "I got your back buddy, fry those darkspawn"

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 mars 2010 - 10:24 .

[Sarah1281]

As you can probably tell my character has delusions of grandeur and aspires to be the puppeteer behind Alistair's throne.

And having your own personal assassin will go a long way towards helping you achieve that.



Can Leliana be talked down from attacking you over the Urn if you harden her?

[Relshar]

If you killed Wynne your going to strugle near the end of the main storyline.

[AnniLau]

sylvanaerie wrote...

If you don't want Brother Genetivi letting out the location of the ashes, don't take him with you to the Temple.

Or murder knife him if you do.

[sylvanaerie]

[quote]Barbarossa wrote...

I did try leaving her at camp, but she leaves once I get back as my coercion is only at 2 (sort of feel like I wasted that second skill point right now, we'll see though). I should've tried to harden her, but I didn't really know that was a possibility. Just sort've played her little game as she was never my biggest fan. I also killed Wynne, sort of happened by accident, didn't really feel like fixing it though as she was a loyalist.

/quote
Wynne isn't a Loyalist, for an example of one of those look at Kieli I think her name was the fruitcake who thinks its all wonderful the templars will come with their swords of mercy and kill them all.  Yea...you can stand over there lady, you scare me...Wynne is an Aequitarian, like Irving those who believe magic should have rules and be handled responsibly and be policed to some extent rather than run amok.  They are more "moderates" with a middle of the road kind of philosophy.  Considering what happened at the Circle I had to agree.  My Mage was an Aequitarian by the end of her story.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 mars 2010 - 10:35 .

[sami jo]

sylvanaerie wrote...

sami jo wrote...

You can't really blame the game for rogue NPCs behaving like, well, rogues. Take a long look at their class skills and specializations and think about how an individual with those skills is likely to behave. You are trying to stop a Blight. For a Grey Warden, that is suppose to be the only goal that matters. Hopping on a moral high horse is likely to make it harder to achieve that goal.

Except he doesn't seem to be doing the moral thing, it seems like he's playing his PC as power hungry and kind of playing "evil".  Unless I read his post wrong.  He doesn't seem to object to them being rogues its more an objection to them 1) being hired to kill him (BTW I was angrier at his employer, not at Zevran)  and 2) his other rogue having a different opinion about the Chantry than he did.

I can understand his RP perspective, but it doesn't make rogues idiots, which is the title of the thread.  Moral high horse may not be the right term, but he isn't RPing a very effective Grey Warden.  Duncan recruited Daveth after he tried to steal from him (and Duncan recruits the PC out of some pretty questionable circumstances depending on origin).  I have yet to play a character who is a big supporter of the Chantry, but bringing them down takes a back seat to stopping the Blight.  I can understand RPing a character who resents being made a Warden and (suicidally) isn't particularly interested in saving the world.  It's going to, understandably, create a whole host of problems for the PC when trying to stop the Blight, though.  And if your PC is going to act purely out of self-interest, he'd better be prepared to persuade/intimidate a whole lot (meaning that coersion needs to be very high).

[Addai]

Relshar wrote...

If you killed Wynne your going to strugle near the end of the main storyline.

??  I never take Wynne anywhere I don't absolutely have to.

It's a struggle to have her in the party, not to leave her behind.