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[Janni-in-VA]

Well, we've come a long way from the OP, but it's been interesting and -- most happily -- civil. In my first play-through, I didn't realize until just before going to Denerim for the Landsmeet that my elven PC wouldn't be able to be queen or marry Alistair if he were king. And even as I played the second time through, I didn't know about hardening him. So, first play-through I convinced him to do the dark ritual (and he really did look nauseated, which was odd as I have a nude mod and his body was obviously ready to go). Then, I left Anora on the throne, and Alistair and I went off to rebuild the Gray Wardens. My DNF had he and Anora marry, which she sprang on them at the Landsmeet. *hehehe* She surprised me and convinced him to do the dark ritual. I was fully expecting her to make the US. After I finished that play-through, I felt awful. Alistair's very important First Time had been with Morrigan, and then I'd stuck him, unhardened, in a loveless marriage. Alistair offers his hand to Anora out of politeness, to help her up the stairs, and she just jerks hers away. It broke my heart. (If you watch carefully, you can see that he's bringing up the back of his hand, not the palm.)

I haven't played through as a male, yet. I really prefer playing females because I understand the way we think. Playing as a male is going to take some mental gymnastics on my part. Maybe I can take the director approach an earlier poster mentioned.

Okay, I have a question for some of the guys still keeping up with this thread. As a woman, I know what it would mean to have a child. I can even understand the pain of wanting children and never having them. From the perspective of a male Gray Warden who's romanced Morrigan, what kind of impact does it have on your PC that she's having your child, but you'll never see either of them again? (If she has her druthers, that is.) I have no RL experience to help me wrap my head around that.

And, Andraste's blood, it had never occurred to me that Flemeth might take Morrigan's body either during her pregnancy or immediately after the child was born in order to raise the child. That idea is a truly chilling thought.

I'm rambling. I know, but it's late and I just read all 11 pages of posts in this thread.

[Ceridraen]

Why did they do that Morrigan scene with the 'tent music,' anyway? As if I wasn't peevish (iow, hysterical) enough at that point! All the males look terrified when she zooms in over them. (Ok, I never did Loghain, but I can imagine his purple-popping eyes widening in terror.) Even my human, who loved her, looked scared, like he might be squashed flat or devoured. (I won't watch the Alistair one again - that was just one too many sucker punches for me)

A scene in Awakening brought it back to me. You know when you find the kitten? (Ser Pounce a lot) And you bend down... and make that Adria-ghoul-lady look friendly in comparison? That's how it seemed to me.

It's very... vampiric. And not in a cute, sparkly way.

Modifié par Ceridraen, 28 mars 2010 - 04:07 .

[sylvanaerie]

Ceridraen wrote...

Why did they do that Morrigan scene with the 'tent music,' anyway? As if I wasn't peevish (iow, hysterical) enough at that point! All the males look terrified when she zooms in over them. (Ok, I never did Loghain, but I can imagine his purple-popping eyes widening in terror.) Even my human, who loved her, looked scared, like he might be squashed flat or devoured. (I won't watch the Alistair one again - that was just one too many sucker punches for me)

A scene in Awakening brought it back to me. You know when you find the kitten? (Ser Pounce a lot) And you bend down... and make that Adria-ghoul-lady look friendly in comparison? That's how it seemed to me.

It's very... vampiric. And not in a cute, sparkly way.

Yea my Cousland boy did the DR with her and he looked as horrified as Alistair (though he had slept with Morrigan but it had been just a one night thing).  I think its just a standard CGI with a different face/hair pasted on.  Silly woman talked about "making it a night to remember".  I think if he had his druthers he would rather just forget.  And she tells Alistair he won't hate it as much as he thought.  I beg to differ looking at his face.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 28 mars 2010 - 04:39 .

[Axekix]

Janni-in-VA wrote...
Okay, I have a question for some of the guys still keeping up with this thread. As a woman, I know what it would mean to have a child. I can even understand the pain of wanting children and never having them. From the perspective of a male Gray Warden who's romanced Morrigan, what kind of impact does it have on your PC that she's having your child, but you'll never see either of them again? (If she has her druthers, that is.) I have no RL experience to help me wrap my head around that.
And, Andraste's blood, it had never occurred to me that Flemeth might take Morrigan's body either during her pregnancy or immediately after the child was born in order to raise the child. That idea is a truly chilling thought.
I'm rambling. I know, but it's late and I just read all 11 pages of posts in this thread.

Well for me, the first time I played it through it caught me completely offguard. 

I had romanced her and Leliana but broke it off with Morrigan after the ultimatum, so I wasn't expecting her "proposal" at all.  In that game it was particularly sad, because despite the way the breakup played out, she was still offering to bare my child to save my life (depending on your dialogue choices you can find out that it's arguably as much motivation for her as the god baby scheme).

So I found the entire scene very touching, and painful because with how well it's written you really feel the finality and resolve in her words... and you really don't want her to go.  As a HNM you've lost your entire family once, and now that you have a chance of building a new one, it is lost to you as well.  I kept hoping there would be a way to change her mind before the final battle, and the game does give you several options to try at least, but alas!

For every character I've played who's done it, my warden has absolutely had to go after her.  Even when I was with Lel at the time.  It's just not something I feel like I can leave open ended.

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

Janni-in-VA wrote...
Okay, I have a question for some of the guys still keeping up with this thread. As a woman, I know what it would mean to have a child. I can even understand the pain of wanting children and never having them. From the perspective of a male Gray Warden who's romanced Morrigan, what kind of impact does it have on your PC that she's having your child, but you'll never see either of them again? (If she has her druthers, that is.) I have no RL experience to help me wrap my head around that.
And, Andraste's blood, it had never occurred to me that Flemeth might take Morrigan's body either during her pregnancy or immediately after the child was born in order to raise the child. That idea is a truly chilling thought.
I'm rambling. I know, but it's late and I just read all 11 pages of posts in this thread.

Well for me, the first time I played it through it caught me completely offguard. 

I had romanced her and Leliana but broke it off with Morrigan after the ultimatum, so I wasn't expecting her "proposal" at all.  In that game it was particularly sad, because despite the way the breakup played out, she was still offering to bare my child to save my life (depending on your dialogue choices you can find out that it's arguably as much motivation for her as the god baby scheme).

So I found the entire scene very touching, and painful because with how well it's written you really feel the finality and resolve in her words... and you really don't want her to go.  As a HNM you've lost your entire family once, and now that you have a chance of building a new one, it is lost to you as well.  I kept hoping there would be a way to change her mind before the final battle, and the game does give you several options to try at least, but alas!

For every character I've played who's done it, my warden has absolutely had to go after her.  Even when I was with Lel at the time.  It's just not something I feel like I can leave open ended.

The romance changes her too there is something so completely adorable about her begging you to tell her you don't love her.  And her giggles when you order her to your tent are so funny, they make me want to laugh too.  Definitely glad I tried it at least some of the way I just didn't have the heart to play to its conclusion.  

Man now you made me wanna play Roland again and go for Morrigan...

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 28 mars 2010 - 05:28 .

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
The romance changes her too there is something so completely adorable
about her begging you to tell her you don't love her.  And her giggles
when you order her to your tent are so funny, they make me want to laugh
too.  Definitely glad I tried it at least some of the way I just didn't
have the heart to play to its conclusion.  

Man now you made me
wanna play Roland again and go for Morrigan...

Yeah those convos are great!  After my first playthrough she quickly became my favorite party member.
I'm totally winning you over to the male side!  I knew it was just a matter of time.

Modifié par Axekix, 28 mars 2010 - 05:30 .

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
The romance changes her too there is something so completely adorable
about her begging you to tell her you don't love her.  And her giggles
when you order her to your tent are so funny, they make me want to laugh
too.  Definitely glad I tried it at least some of the way I just didn't
have the heart to play to its conclusion.  

Man now you made me
wanna play Roland again and go for Morrigan...

Yeah those convos are great!  After my first playthrough she quickly became my favorite party member.
I'm totally winning you over to the male side!  I knew it was just a matter of time.

LOL I've always been a gender bender RPer.  My favorite Mage The Ascension character was a female mage who used Life Magics to make herself Male for long periods of time (in various life roles as she spanned centuries).  My first D&D character was a paladin named Roland (yes I adore that name, if I had had a son my first child that would have been his name).

OH and my favorite Vampire:the Masquerade character was a Toreador named Louis (his name was taken from his maternal grampa not the character from the book).  For an example in DA:O for his personality look at Zevran.  Almost as if they channeled him for the game and I suspect one reason I like Zev so much.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 28 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
The romance changes her too there is something so completely adorable
about her begging you to tell her you don't love her.  And her giggles
when you order her to your tent are so funny, they make me want to laugh
too.  Definitely glad I tried it at least some of the way I just didn't
have the heart to play to its conclusion.  

Man now you made me
wanna play Roland again and go for Morrigan...

Yeah those convos are great!  After my first playthrough she quickly became my favorite party member.
I'm totally winning you over to the male side!  I knew it was just a matter of time.

LOL I've always been a gender bender RPer.  My favorite Mage The Ascension character was a female mage who used Life Magics to make herself Male for long periods of time (in various life roles as she spanned centuries).  My first D&D character was a paladin named Roland (yes I adore that name, if I had had a son my first child that would have been his name).

OH and my favorite Vampire:the Masquerade character was a Toreador named Louis (his name was taken from his maternal grampa not the character from the book).  For an example in DA:O for his personality look at Zevran.  Almost as if they channeled him for the game and I suspect one reason I like Zev so much.

You know, in all 3 games I've completed I never really got to know Zev at all.  I swear I screw up with him in every convo.  Half of the time I pick sarcastic, "joking" responses (or at least I think they're joking...) and he laughs them off... then the convo ends with "Zevran disapproves. -8"

What the hell!

He usually gets left at camp since Lelianna is my go to rogue anyway.  Touchy Antivans...

Modifié par Axekix, 28 mars 2010 - 05:47 .

[sylvanaerie]

LOL Zev is easy for me Sten is the toughie (Or was till I got used to his triggers). But then except for the fact that my Louis was French with black hair and dark features (And lol yes I did the whole accent and everything RPing him. I sounded like fricking pepe le'pew) the two personalities are very similar. Mild teasing is okay but anything that sounds belittling or mocking is bad. Make sure he is appreciated, and you are glad to have him with you. He has some really funny lines.

I usually have him maxed approval long before the encounter with Taliesan.

OH and also take him with you when you do things.  Zevran will approve of most of the stuff you do Losing disapprovals over things dealing with his past like if you try to annul the circle (Slavery) or harm the dalish.  Hes really one of the more easy going companions.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 28 mars 2010 - 06:03 .

[CalJones]

The key to Zev, I've found, is (if you're not interested in romancing him) don't touch any of the convo options that imply you're attractive. If you turn him down, or get him interested and then turn him down, he always disapproves. Having said that, he is my most romanced character.

I've actually never completed an Alistair romance in so far as it's never lasted beyond Landsmeet. I guess that makes me an oddity amongst women.

[Ceridraen]

For my first run through, I'd find myself in a romance with Zevran with NO idea how I got there. I never said the 'ravish,' 'handsome elf' lines. But apparently, it was asking him fairly benign (I thought) personal questions. I think I said I wasn't bothered by him liking men, & somehow, that meant I loved him. But I wasn't aware I was supposed to have meant it 'that way,' so once I got into an intended relationship with Alistair, Zevran suddenly said I had to choose. Just the sort of thing that would happen to me in real life! I panicked, deleted my character (who was probably around 20 at that point,) & started over, because I felt so disloyal to Alistair AND so horrible for misleading Zevran. I took it very, very seriously. (this sort of thing happened when another tried to 'be nice' and do the noble thing with Loghain, only to have Alistair feel betrayed.) This game sure can toy with your emotions!

All too familiar!

Modifié par Ceridraen, 28 mars 2010 - 06:50 .

[sylvanaerie]

Ceridraen wrote...

For my first run through, I'd find myself in a romance with Zevran with NO idea how I got there. I never said the 'ravish,' 'handsome elf' lines. But apparently, it was asking him fairly benign (I thought) personal questions. I think I said I wasn't bothered by him liking men, & somehow, that meant I loved him. But I wasn't aware I was supposed to have meant it 'that way,' so once I got into an intended relationship with Alistair, Zevran suddenly said I had to choose. Just the sort of thing that would happen to me in real life! I panicked, deleted my character (who was probably around 20 at that point,) & started over, because I felt so disloyal to Alistair AND so horrible for misleading Zevran. I took it very, very seriously. (this sort of thing happened when another tried to 'be nice' and do the noble thing with Loghain, only to have Alistair feel betrayed.) This game sure can toy with your emotions!

All too familiar!

LOL Or try NOT getting Leliana to fall in love.  My entire game (twice now on two separate avatars) I romanced Alistair.  Leli was a friend only.  I got engaged during landsmeet and during the final battle through the streets of denerim I went to loot a corpse and accidentally clicked on Leli and she gave me the "I heard about you and Alistair.  I will step aside" speech.    WTF????  Step aside YES stupid woman step aside so I can loot the corpse and what do you mean we were 'friendly' in that way

Wish sometimes there was a slap mod for all the silly people in the game who annoy you.

[Ceridraen]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Yea my Cousland boy did the DR with her and he looked as horrified as Alistair (though he had slept with Morrigan but it had been just a one night thing).  I think its just a standard CGI with a different face/hair pasted on.  Silly woman talked about "making it a night to remember".  I think if he had his druthers he would rather just forget.  And she tells Alistair he won't hate it as much as he thought.  I beg to differ looking at his face.

Just what I thought, too.  And thanks, Morrigan, for saying that in FRONT of me.  And again, thanks, Bioware for showing me this 'tender scene.'  I have to say - when I did this on my guy, & he got to sleep with & impregnate his already-lover, it seemed ever so slightly unbalanced. My elf is traumatized, weeps, & can't look at either of them - my boy gets a last night with his lover, fathers a child.... hm, depending on your point of view, this is also traumatic, but it didn't FEEL bad to me. (but I am a woman, so maybe I wouldn't notice)

Really! She's a shape-shifter. She says she doesn't 'choose' to do human shapes, but implies she can. (I wondered if that was to be the explanation if  you chose the US ending.)  So really - it would be quite easy for her to don 'you' as a disguise, & he'd at least THINK it was you. A tad less disturbing. Or - let me soul-switch with her!  My girl would like being taller & voluptuous for an hour or so (or 15 minutes, as necessary)  Morrigan would probably prefer it, too. 

Oh, well.  

My elf guy did the ritual (unloved) - it was somewhat creepy. He looked WAY too young for her, so that 'looming' scene is especially horrifying, tender music notwithstanding.

[Sarah1281]

See, that's why Zevran's tricky. Unlike Alistair who you can ask about lampposts if you're not trying to romance him (well, as a male anyway) anything even remotely connected to sex gets Zevran interested and 'so do you like guys' translates to 'I want tent time.' In retrospect you can see why the romance activates a lot of times, but those seemingly innocent questions don't always come out the right way.

[Efesell]

Actually as I recall she does say she can't assume another human form. Due to the way shapeshifters learn their extra forms.

[Ceridraen]

sylvanaerie wrote...


LOL Or try NOT getting Leliana to fall in love.  My entire game (twice now on two separate avatars) I romanced Alistair.  Leli was a friend only.  I got engaged during landsmeet and during the final battle through the streets of denerim I went to loot a corpse and accidentally clicked on Leli and she gave me the "I heard about you and Alistair.  I will step aside" speech.    WTF????  Step aside YES stupid woman step aside so I can loot the corpse and what do you mean we were 'friendly' in that way

Wish sometimes there was a slap mod for all the silly people in the game who annoy you.

Leliana is a FIEND. I've gotten to the end, & had her break up with me (or threaten to, I guess) because I was also romancing Alistair.  The weird thing is, though I got that cut scene, her actual approval stayed at warm or friends or whatever it is at the friend level.

[Sarah1281]

She doesn't outright say she can't, just that she's already human so there's nothing she can learn from studying humans, which means that if she were so inclined she might be able to.

[Ceridraen]

Efesell wrote...

Actually as I recall she does say she can't assume another human form. Due to the way shapeshifters learn their extra forms.

As I remember it, she says something closer to 'there's no reason for me to do that because I know what it's like to be human,' but not that she can't. I thought it was left fairly open & I wondered why at the time.  But that wouldn't mean that she could adopt another's looks, either way. I just prefer to think so.  If the lights go out, ANYTHING can be true.

eta:   Oh, & yes. My daughter did the human noble marriage. Leliana did the same thing - that must be a common glitch. She also says something snarky like, "maybe he'll learn to love you."  I think the computer was slapped at that point.

Modifié par Ceridraen, 28 mars 2010 - 07:03 .

[Sarah1281]

The lights going out would kind of defeat the purpose of the shapeshifting, wouldn't it? But we KNOW she could shapeshift into an elf or dwarf since they're not her native form and that's a good 5/7th of the potential femGWs.

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

She doesn't outright say she can't, just that she's already human so there's nothing she can learn from studying humans, which means that if she were so inclined she might be able to.

No she comes out and says her human form is the only one she can assume.  Of course she could still be lying.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 28 mars 2010 - 07:03 .

[Efesell]

Hm, okay. Looking at it again in the toolset and it does seem that it might be possible to morph to another human form, but she doesn't know any herself.

[Ceridraen]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The lights going out would kind of defeat the purpose of the shapeshifting, wouldn't it? But we KNOW she could shapeshift into an elf or dwarf since they're not her native form and that's a good 5/7th of the potential femGWs.

Oh, fair point...  I'd prefer the Switch Bodies angle myself. (I think Captain Kirk did this once on Star Trek - yes, with that ex-girlfriend of his... Oh, THAT narrows it down, I know... So if HE did it, of COURSE, it can be done. And Alistair won't even need a girdle.  Then he will talk a rampaging computer into killing itself.)  

Suddenly, Morrigan would yank her hair down, smile & be cute, & my nice little elf will sneer & issue snide yet witty comments for the next 15-45 minutes, depending on the success of the encounter.  (or better yet, go for a drink downstairs...)

[Sarah1281]

She doesn't outright say she can't, just that she's already human so there's nothing she can learn from studying humans, which means that if she were so inclined she might be able to.

No she comes out and says her human form is the only one she can assume. Of course she could still be lying.

Sorry, by 'can't' I meant 'is not capable of' but she's never appeared to try so she might be able to.

[Hyper Cutter]

Ceridraen wrote...

Just what I thought, too.  And thanks, Morrigan, for saying that in FRONT of me.  And again, thanks, Bioware for showing me this 'tender scene.'  I have to say - when I did this on my guy, & he got to sleep with & impregnate his already-lover, it seemed ever so slightly unbalanced. My elf is traumatized, weeps, & can't look at either of them - my boy gets a last night with his lover, fathers a child.... hm, depending on your point of view, this is also traumatic, but it didn't FEEL bad to me. (but I am a woman, so maybe I wouldn't notice)

It's sort of like the king decision, in that respect. Female nobles get to marry a party member they either are in a relationship with or at least friends with, while male nobles are stuck with an NPC who's indifferent to you at best.

To be honest, the Ritual is traumatic in its own right for a male character that romanced Morrigan. She's going to abandon you after the battle, and you'll never see her again, nor will you ever see your Old God son/daughter.

[mousestalker]

Ceridraen wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...


LOL Or try NOT getting Leliana to fall in love.  My entire game (twice now on two separate avatars) I romanced Alistair.  Leli was a friend only.  I got engaged during landsmeet and during the final battle through the streets of denerim I went to loot a corpse and accidentally clicked on Leli and she gave me the "I heard about you and Alistair.  I will step aside" speech.    WTF????  Step aside YES stupid woman step aside so I can loot the corpse and what do you mean we were 'friendly' in that way

Wish sometimes there was a slap mod for all the silly people in the game who annoy you.

Leliana is a FIEND. I've gotten to the end, & had her break up with me (or threaten to, I guess) because I was also romancing Alistair.  The weird thing is, though I got that cut scene, her actual approval stayed at warm or friends or whatever it is at the friend level.

Agreed. I don't want a slap mod, though. I want a cold bucket of water mod. Something that resets the approval back to friend and dashes a bucket of water across their face. I've grown quite good at letting Lelianna down easy and I knwo all of the romantic triggers for everyone. I swear the approval flips on its own some times.