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[Taritu]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Taritu wrote...

(As an RP note, I just assume my CEF was well trained and has spent years fanatically training after her mother died. I also assume that she has been involved in plenty of street fights, and as anyone who has played the game knows, virtually the most dangerous opponents in the entire damn game are Denerim street thugs. After growing up fighting them, Darkspawn other than Ogres and Emissaries are laughable.  "Baby, I grew up on the mean streets of Denerim.  I'm supposed to be scared of you!?")

Haha!  You know, you may be on to something there.  Between Gaxkang, city guards and the thugs those Denerim streets are worse than the Deep Roads.

That's for sure.  Fortuneately we have good ole Sgt Kylon to help with that mess.  (He is the only city guard to walk away from the merc ambush in my games)  For me that's one of the toughest fights in the game.

BTW The same VA who does Sten does Sgt Kylon  FUN times!

I love Kylon.  Granted, it's scripted that he can't die, but from an RP perspective, my characters are always bloody impressed by him--my first playthrough only my pc and him survived that fight.  "Too dangerous for you?  Kylon, you're a bloody monster!"

[sylvanaerie]

His line at that point is pretty good too. Something about people who attack you being stupid. I love Kylon, smartest man in Denerim. In fact...he knows he's SUPPOSED to bring you in technically but he also knows its a fight he won't win. Yet both Howe AND Loghain stupidly attacked the PC.

Someone wanna tell me WHY Loghain was considered a 'great general' and this guy is still a non-com?

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 29 mars 2010 - 08:58 .

[mousestalker]

sylvanaerie wrote...

His line at that point is pretty good too. Something about people who attack you being stupid. I love Kylon, smartest man in Denerim. In fact...he knows he's SUPPOSED to bring you in technically but he also knows its a fight he won't win. Yet both Howe AND Loghain stupidly attacked the PC.

Someone wanna tell me WHY Loghain was considered a 'great general' and this guy is still a non-com?

Because David Gaider has a bromance going with Loghain. When the head writer falls in love with you, it's hard not to rise above your level of competence.

[HaloKT]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's just wrong and there is no possibility of a happy ending.

What, the Cammen/Gheyna quest? How is their getting married not a happy ending? Or is this if you sleep with one of them? I haven't hooked up with Gheyna but even though Cammen was scared of me I still convinced Gheyna to marry him and he wisely never brought it up.

If the male Warden chooses to seduce Gheyna when Wynne is in the party her opinion of the Warden will, surprisingly, increase by seven

I've heard people say it seems like Wynne hates elves, but I think it might just be male elves. She made Aneirin run away, tried to convince him to leave his peaceful home to go back to people who tried to kill him at fourteen, and couldn't even be bothered to take his token when she left at the end of Origins. Zevran, of course, she keeps trying to 'save' and Cammen most likely doesn't get the girl if you sleep with Gheyna. Does she freak out and call you a bad person afterwards, too, or is Cammen the only prude?

She regrets that she treated Aneirin this badly. Her quest is even named "Wynne's Regret" I think. And Aneirin's "peaceful" home? He hails from an Alienage, and even though it's a cage, life at the Circle is a lot better than that. I honestly don't believe she hates Elves. If she did, she wouldn't blame herself for all what happened, including him being hunted by the templars. She'd just shrug it off with a "that's what you'd  expect from an Elf" comment.
And of course she tries to save Zevran. Not because he's an Elf, but because he's an assassin (she might not know about Leliana's past, so maybe she only sees the sweet little lay sister in her) and on top of that will try to seduce anything with legs.

But I do say, the fact that you get a +7 approval if you're male and sleep with Gheyna, while you get a whopping -10 if you're female and sleep with Cammen... she sure is sexist, isn't she? A male Warden is encouraged to sleep around (and ruin a relationship) while female Wardens have to stay chaste? And this on top of the fact that you can talk Gheyna into still accepting Cammen after sleeping with him? Come on...! That's hardly fair! Not that I ever intend to seduce Cammen (bit too young, isn't he?), but still...

[HaloKT]

sylvanaerie wrote...

His line at that point is pretty good too. Something about people who attack you being stupid. I love Kylon, smartest man in Denerim. In fact...he knows he's SUPPOSED to bring you in technically but he also knows its a fight he won't win. Yet both Howe AND Loghain stupidly attacked the PC.

Someone wanna tell me WHY Loghain was considered a 'great general' and this guy is still a non-com?

That line is classic, yes. Something like "And people attack you voluntarily? Are they stupid?". Cracks me up every time.

Anyway, Loghain and Howe are corrupted by power. classic villain move in every good guy - bad guy story. The humble good guy stands up against the oppressing bad guy, all the while the bad guy keeps throwing henchmen at him and despite all of them failing, still vastly underestimates the hero. Loghain even admits this before you execute/recruit him.
If Loghain were to be written realistically, the game wouldn't be very long I guess. Or Rendon Howe for that matter...

[tmp7704]

HaloKT wrote...

But I do say, the fact that you get a +7 approval if you're male and sleep with Gheyna, while you get a whopping -10 if you're female and sleep with Cammen... she sure is sexist, isn't she? A male Warden is encouraged to sleep around (and ruin a relationship) while female Wardens have to stay chaste?

I think she's being sensible, not sexist -- no birth control means the male Warden is far less likely to wind up pregnant after sleeping around with random people, and that'd be bit of show-stopper when fighting the Blight. Not to mention who knows what a child born from a tainted mother would be like

[sylvanaerie]

LOL actually my last post was supposed to be kinda tongue in cheek...but unfortuneately text doesn't display sarcasm too well. What I meant was Loghain continually attacking PC was stupid (Kylon's observation) yet Kylon is very realistic of his chances at beating the Warden (and her posse). Which are nil...and would leave him alone against the PC cause his incompetent troops would all go running leaving him to be skewered.

@tmp7704
The taint doesn't cross the placenta. The problem with mommy wardens isn't tainted babies its the same as daddy wardens, low fertility chances. Its a case of the old double standard (which NO one else in the game seems to display even the PC's own family) and I found that an odd approval/disapproval posting...so if I seduce the girl she approves? WTF? I think we need a "slap Wynne" mod too cause that's just stupid. Maybe its because Cammen is so dopey he acts more like a child than the girl?

Plus Wynne says nothing about pregnancy with the Warden when they are sleeping with Morrigan/Leli/Zev/Alistair.  She talks more about duty coming between you and your love.  And there is a form of birth control in Thedas, Wynne mentions it in one of her banters with Alistair.  Though I guess either its not 100% effective or perhaps she made a choice to have her child.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 29 mars 2010 - 12:53 .

[Efesell]

HaloKT wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

His line at that point is pretty good too. Something about people who attack you being stupid. I love Kylon, smartest man in Denerim. In fact...he knows he's SUPPOSED to bring you in technically but he also knows its a fight he won't win. Yet both Howe AND Loghain stupidly attacked the PC.

Someone wanna tell me WHY Loghain was considered a 'great general' and this guy is still a non-com?

That line is classic, yes. Something like "And people attack you voluntarily? Are they stupid?". Cracks me up every time.

Anyway, Loghain and Howe are corrupted by power. classic villain move in every good guy - bad guy story. The humble good guy stands up against the oppressing bad guy, all the while the bad guy keeps throwing henchmen at him and despite all of them failing, still vastly underestimates the hero. Loghain even admits this before you execute/recruit him.
If Loghain were to be written realistically, the game wouldn't be very long I guess. Or Rendon Howe for that matter...

Realistically your character would have been made into mulch by the number of people that are thrown at you.

[sylvanaerie]

awww come on guys,it was a rhetorical silly sarcastic question. Mousestalker got it right off and answered it in a like vein so I know it wasn't totally taken out of context.

[HaloKT]

Yes. It's not birth control (which in one form or another has been around since at least ancient Egyptian times), it's simple double standards in the case of Wynne. Even more so, given the aforementioned lower fertility rates for Wardens AND the complete lack of "Oh, but if you're preggers, who's going to save the world?" speech from her if you're romancing Alistair or Zevran (who as a non-Warden should be perfectly fertile).
And, while talking about birth control... if you're male and get it on with Gheyna, you'd think that she'll give birth to a fatherless bastard child in a world without birth control. How can she approve of this?

@Efesell:
LOL yes. And that of course! I'm playing too many RPGs I guess, mistaking a more sensibly written script with realism.

Edit:
Aw, you spoilsport. Don't take away my geekery!

Modifié par HaloKT, 29 mars 2010 - 01:12 .

[sylvanaerie]

hmmm I just had a thought on that actually.



What if the father of her son was a lot younger than her and it was an ill chosen fling (such as a templar or an apprentice in her mentorship)? It may explain her odd approval drop (and such a hideously HUGE one it is indeed)

[Efesell]

Anyway, I do like Kylon as well. He's probably the only one who can see my main character badge and what that means.

[HoonDing]

sylvanaerie wrote...

@tmp7704
The taint doesn't cross the placenta. The problem with mommy wardens isn't tainted babies its the same as daddy wardens, low fertility chances.

Since the taint originates from an Old God and appears to be magical in nature, I can't really fathom how the offspring of a Grey Warden, let alone two Grey Wardens, wouldn't be tainted if it managed to be conceived... other than plot conveniency.

I guess this is something in line with every single non-Warden party member being immune to the taint, not to mention every other random schmuck fighting Darkspawn... reducing the mighty Grey Warden into nothing more than a contingency for when an Archdemon happens to be in need of staking.

This convenient immunity even negates the reasons for why the Grey Wardens were founded at all, which I assume was to have fighters that could withstand the taint.
Imagine if in the wake of the Archdemon's defeat, the entire city of Denerim would have to be put to the torch to stop the spreak of the taint, and the victorious soldiers needed to be executed in order to prevent them from turning into ghouls. That would've been truly dark... a Pyrrhic victory instead of the roses & daisies one is presented with.

Modifié par virumor, 29 mars 2010 - 01:30 .

[Xandurpein]

HaloKT wrote...

Yes. It's not birth control (which in one form or another has been around since at least ancient Egyptian times), it's simple double standards in the case of Wynne. Even more so, given the aforementioned lower fertility rates for Wardens AND the complete lack of "Oh, but if you're preggers, who's going to save the world?" speech from her if you're romancing Alistair or Zevran (who as a non-Warden should be perfectly fertile).
And, while talking about birth control... if you're male and get it on with Gheyna, you'd think that she'll give birth to a fatherless bastard child in a world without birth control. How can she approve of this?

Not to mention the fact that if you are a human you would leave Gheyna with a bastard human child...

[sylvanaerie]

virumor wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

@tmp7704
The taint doesn't cross the placenta. The problem with mommy wardens isn't tainted babies its the same as daddy wardens, low fertility chances.

Since the taint originates from an Old God and appears to be magical in nature, I can't really fathom how the offspring of a Grey Warden, let alone two Grey Wardens, wouldn't be tainted if it managed to be conceived... other than plot conveniency.

I guess this is something in line with every single non-Warden party member being immune to the taint, not to mention every other random schmuck fighting Darkspawn... reducing the mighty Grey Warden into nothing more than a contingency for when an Archdemon happens to be in need of staking.

This convenient immunity even negates the reasons for why the Grey Wardens were founded at all, which I assume was to have fighters that could withstand the taint.
Imagine if in the wake of the Archdemon's defeat, the entire city of Denerim would have to be put to the torch to stop the spreak of the taint, and the victorious soldiers needed to be executed in order to prevent them from turning into ghouls. That would've been truly dark... a Pyrrhic victory instead of the roses & daisies one is presented with.

Many diseases don't cross the placenta. For an example mommies with AIDS can give birth to perfectly healthy babies (the infection can be passed if proper precautions aren't taken during childbirth due to blood/bodily fluids) but its possible.  But yea I think at that point in the game most people if they STILL had to burn Denerim to the ground and killed all their fellows to prevent the spread of the taint would have probably thrown their controllers into the TV.  Of course I could be overestimating the level of empathy of some of them.  Maybe some players would totally get off on kill them all mentality.  As for me if I had to do that I would have probably gone postal on Bioware.

I don't take it as the taint originating from the Old Gods.  Nothing in the lore says that does it?  I took it to mean the darkspawn taint the Old God and waken it from slumber. 

But yea it is more a plot device than anything else.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 29 mars 2010 - 01:43 .

[Efesell]

It definitely doesn't come from the Old Gods, or else they would all be Archdemons already. The source of the blight is much the same as the source of the Darkspawn, too clouded in Chantry allegory to really know what's what.

[Feraele]

Well I'm the opposite, I've created 19 characters so far, all were female except one. Not all are finished, I have about 4 I need to level up, but I am a female player and find it hard to rp a male. I will eventually, its just not as interesting to me. Maybe because I like the idea of a female being a hero.

[Addai]

Taritu wrote...

(As an RP note, I just assume my CEF was well trained and has spent years fanatically training after her mother died. I also assume that she has been involved in plenty of street fights, and as anyone who has played the game knows, virtually the most dangerous opponents in the entire damn game are Denerim street thugs. After growing up fighting them, Darkspawn other than Ogres and Emissaries are laughable.  "Baby, I grew up on the mean streets of Denerim.  I'm supposed to be scared of you!?")

Ha!  Yes.  South Denerim is quite the training ground. 

I like the comment Alistair makes when you enter the alienage, asking if elves gang up on people.  He's worried.  *snicker*

[tmp7704]

sylvanaerie wrote...

@tmp7704
The taint doesn't cross the placenta.

That's not something we actually know one way or the other, no? It certainly doesn't guarantee full protection from AIDS, to use your own example -- http://www.thebody.c...nt/art6654.html

The problem with mommy wardens isn't tainted babies its the same as daddy wardens, low fertility chances.

It's low fertility chance vs zero chance to actually get pregnant yourself when you're the male Warden. Certainly not the same situation.

[Efesell]

Well, in any event the children of a Grey Warden.. should they actually manage to have them.. are not tainted in any way. This much was confirmed a while back via Bioware-post.

[Red Frostraven]

Efesell wrote...

Well, in any event the children of a Grey Warden.. should they actually manage to have them.. are not tainted in any way. This much was confirmed a while back via Bioware-post.

Yet... Morrigan's ritual completely depends upon the child being tainted...

[mousestalker]

Red Frostraven wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Well, in any event the children of a Grey Warden.. should they actually manage to have them.. are not tainted in any way. This much was confirmed a while back via Bioware-post.

Yet... Morrigan's ritual completely depends upon the child being tainted...

You may want to re-read what she actually says. In particular what she says if you ask about Riordan's suitability.

[Efesell]

mousestalker wrote...

Red Frostraven wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Well, in any event the children of a Grey Warden.. should they actually manage to have them.. are not tainted in any way. This much was confirmed a while back via Bioware-post.

Yet... Morrigan's ritual completely depends upon the child being tainted...

You may want to re-read what she actually says. In particular what she says if you ask about Riordan's suitability.

No he's right. She does flat out say the child will carry the taint.
However I feel this can be pretty easily attributed to whatever voodoo magic Morrigan is operating with here.

[Addai]

Red Frostraven wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Well, in any event the children of a Grey Warden.. should they actually manage to have them.. are not tainted in any way. This much was confirmed a while back via Bioware-post.

Yet... Morrigan's ritual completely depends upon the child being tainted...

Obviously part of Morrigan's ritual involves appropriating the taint, something that does not occur naturally.