573 réponses à ce sujet

[Mlai00]

For my male Cousland... Dog finished off the Ogre while everyone else was unconscious.

Yay... you go, Dog... :'D

And we all know Dog is a female... who likes to pee like a male... LMAO, how's that for a statement? xD

[Sabriana]

Not too bad Mlai00. I had a male that peed like a female IRL. So it's possible.

Modifié par Sabriana, 06 avril 2010 - 02:31 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sabriana wrote...

Not too bad Mlai00. I had a male that peed like a female IRL. So it's possible.

I know male humans that pee sitting down, but few females that pee standing up.

It's a matter of anatomy.

(this applies mainly to urinals)

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 06 avril 2010 - 02:40 .

[Sabriana]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Not too bad Mlai00. I had a male that peed like a female IRL. So it's possible.

I know male humans that pee sitting down, but few females that pee standing up.

It's a matter of anatomy.

(this applies mainly to urinals)

Water! Everywhere! Thanks mein Herr Uhl. But I got smart. I've got a keyboard cover, see.

[Walina]

Axekix wrote...

(TLDR at the bottom)
Let me preface this by saying I don’t mean for this to be offensive.  Really I’m just interested in hearing some different view points on the matter. 

I have never beaten DA:O with a female PC.  I’ve tried… I mean of the dozens of characters I’ve made, at least ½ are female, but the only 3 I’ve ever taken to the end of the game are male.  I seem to lose interest in my female chars after 1-2 contracts at best and reroll.

It’s not so much an issue with RPing a female.  I mean when playing DA I don’t play every character as “myself.”  I view playing DA like directing a movie.  I don’t have to put myself personally into the character to enjoy it.  The problem is it just seems to me that a lot of the plot points in the game are better tailored to a male lead.  Note: this is mostly concerning the HNF and CEF origins.  I prefer playing melee to mages.

First of all, there’s Alistair!  As a male he’s kind of a funny/quirky/at times annoying sidekick and friend.  I actually like him as a character.  But as a female he just seems so wussy!

An example of what I mean is, when you get to Lothering, he’s the senior warden, following Ostagar.  He’s probably the most experienced member of your team, and also (storyline wise) probably the strongest at the time (he‘s a temp so he‘d have an advantage over Morrigan, and he‘s been trained for field combat since he was 12).  A female PC at that point has some casual training (either from her father as a HNF, or from her long deceased mother CEF), but only had their first real taste of war at Ostagar.  So, instead of stepping up and setting an example, (in an age where chivalry was at it’s height no less) he dumps ALL the responsibility on the female PC.

This isn’t quite as bad with a male PC.  Granted Alistair’s still slightly more experienced, but he’s not necessarily stronger than a male PC at that time (HNM origin, for example, states that you beat Dairren at the last melee tourney.  Females don’t get that dialogue).

It just seems so… unmanly.  I wish he stepped up to the bat there.  I know there are gameplay reasons for it, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Then there’s Sten.  I’ve always felt like the storyline reasons given for recruiting him are thin.  I mean even for a male PC, the thought of freeing and arming a 7 foot tall, self proclaimed murderer seems… unwise.  But really, as a female PC, Sten is like 3x your size (4x if you’re an elf!).  Unless you’re playing a mage, what hope does some hundred-something lb woman have of keeping him in line if he decides to get crazy again? 

Granted I know his story, but at the time my PC wouldn’t.  I can’t find any way for a female PC to justify releasing him.  Especially considering the only person you could really depend on for protection then would be Alistair (lol).  Yet, I don’t want to leave him because he’s one of my favorite characters later on.  *sigh*

Then of course, there’s the romances.  I really don’t see the appeal of Alistair or Zevran.  And I don’t say that just because I’m a guy.  Alistair is just lame.  I think I read that in the end he doesn’t even propose to your PC, that you actually have to “force” it on him at the landsmeet (seriously?).  And Zev comes off as really sleazy to me (though I’ve never really gotten to know him well in any of my playthroughs).  I could go with Lel, but I’ve been there/done that as a male already.  Am I missing something?

Last but not least there‘s Morrigan.  She’s probably my fav DA char overall.  So I’m wondering how her relationship develops with a female PC.  I know she’s not a love interest, but I like keeping her in my party, and having her play a big role in all of my games.  I’m kind of worried that she’ll be harder to warm up to with a fem PC (correct me if I’m wrong).  Also there’s the issue of the dark ritual… it just seems much less contrived to have a male PC who loves/loved her do it than Alistair (lol again).

There’s plenty more but this post is already way too long as is.  Can anyone give me some counterarguments to some of this?  I’d really like to finish a female playthrough for the achievements and to see the other side of the story, but every time I try I’m just overwhelmed by the cognitive dissonance.  I’m not being sexist am I? 

TL:DR- Dragon Age seems to work better with a male PC.  How do you make HNF/CEF work?

That's simple : there are rare game outthere for both gender and I don't even mention to have a slight difference in the story if you play female.

My point is, Bioware did what japanese did for their players, they made a game for both gender and even give them romances. A female player will often be more tempted to play a female if the story allow some difference and there are some difference in the game.

You still don't see my point ? Then answer this question : will like to play a game where you are only a female and you can romances males ?
Most of the guys won't probably play it but some girls will be interested and that's the case here for Dragon age since Dragon age allow both gender to be played

It's just that japanese dev usually make a game for a single gender not both at the same time though.

[traversc]

You continue to miss the point, and now you're getting shirty.  Charming.  The response was to the point, not "taking it personally."

If you re-read your post, you will see that it was you who was first got "shirty."  And now you continue to do so, despite trying to reprimand me for doing so.  Hypocrisy is the only word to describe your behavoir. 

Also, I'm not here to be charming.  I don't really care if you are charmed by me or not.  Actually, I'd prefer if you weren't, so childish insults like above (e.g., sarcastically calling me "charming") are NOT welcome. 

What we are arguing is from game lore.  I don't know how to say this any more plainly.  It is you who are making stuff up.  In-game we see examples of women in military leadership, and yet you insist the Warden is somehow an extreme anomaly.

You are just putting words into my mouth.  It isn't an extreme anomaly, but it isn't typical.  You seem to miss the fact that 99% of the army is composed of men, while women are seen with the children, waving their husbands off to battle.  THAT is the definition of gender roles, and it is reinforced throughout the game. 

Re: Alistair is more experienced. 
"Unproven.  In fact, disproven.  You're just making stuff up again."

Now you are just believing whatever you want.  Alistair is very much more experienced than you are at the time REGARDLESS of gender.  Even morrigan points out this fact explicitly, and Alistair doens't disagree.  Instead, he says something like "I like following," which, again, is just not very believable IMO, and even more so with a female warden due to the prevalance of gender roles. 

In DAO, there are a lot of strong women,...

...I suppose this is something that can go either way.  Because when I play, I see a lot of women at Ostagar, I see plenty in Loghain's army, I see Ser Cauthrien, I see women in her force.  The Dalish army seems to be as many women as men.There are a LOT of women who fight. 

Yes, there are lots of strong women in Dragon Age.  I am not disputing this fact.  But do a headcount when the game pans out to view the entirety of the army.  The very large majority are men. 

Am I missing something in the game? I didn't get any hints that women are discriminated against in the military in Fereldan. Maybe because I played MHN, and the FDC? I have to play a human female to see the gender roles?

You probably don't see it because you are used to the imagary already.  Women with children waving their husbands off to battle = gender role.  Chantry = gender role.  Dwarf king allowed to have multiple partners = gender role.  Even character stereotypes can be seen as gender roles (although perhaps that is more a reflection on OUR society.)  For example, Lady of the Forest (could you imagine MAN of the forest?), witch of the wilds and even chantry "Mother Superiors" are reminiscient of real life catholic versions. 

Modifié par traversc, 06 avril 2010 - 06:38 .

[master-fluff]

traversc wrote...

Even character stereotypes can be seen as gender roles (although perhaps that is more a reflection on OUR society.)  For example, Lady of the Forest (could you imagine MAN of the forest?), witch of the wilds and even chantry "Mother Superiors" are reminiscient of real life catholic versions. 

Sure I can.  Google The Green Man.  He's a very common symbol, infact I can't think of a female equivalent IRL. 

[TotalLamer]

traversc wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

 I would disagree with the male being better trained than the female in that origin.  I don't think Bryce would handicap his daughter that way.

You're still not thinking about htis from a Ferelden perspective.  Not learning how to fight is not the handicap, LEARNING how to fight is the handicap because doing so would be at the expense of learning skills women need to survive: like how to cook, clean and be demure .  Simply put, fighting is not how women in Ferelden rise to power.  They do that by becoming Chantry leaders or by playing the field of politics (Anora).  On the other hand, Loghain rose to power because he was a war hero; sure, it's conceivable for a woman to do this in Ferelden, but it's unlikely, because 99% of Ferelden's army is men. 

Have you not read the male/female text on the character creation screen?!  It quite clearly spells out that in Fereldan, men and women are treated fairly equally and have similar representation in politics, millitary, etc.

[traversc]

TotalLamer wrote...

traversc wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

 I would disagree with the male being better trained than the female in that origin.  I don't think Bryce would handicap his daughter that way.

You're still not thinking about htis from a Ferelden perspective.  Not learning how to fight is not the handicap, LEARNING how to fight is the handicap because doing so would be at the expense of learning skills women need to survive: like how to cook, clean and be demure .  Simply put, fighting is not how women in Ferelden rise to power.  They do that by becoming Chantry leaders or by playing the field of politics (Anora).  On the other hand, Loghain rose to power because he was a war hero; sure, it's conceivable for a woman to do this in Ferelden, but it's unlikely, because 99% of Ferelden's army is men. 

Have you not read the male/female text on the character creation screen?!  It quite clearly spells out that in Fereldan, men and women are treated fairly equally and have similar representation in politics, millitary, etc.

Right.  We should take everything we read at face value, despite clear evidence to the contrary. 

[TotalLamer]

traversc wrote...

TotalLamer wrote...

traversc wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

 I would disagree with the male being better trained than the female in that origin.  I don't think Bryce would handicap his daughter that way.

You're still not thinking about htis from a Ferelden perspective.  Not learning how to fight is not the handicap, LEARNING how to fight is the handicap because doing so would be at the expense of learning skills women need to survive: like how to cook, clean and be demure .  Simply put, fighting is not how women in Ferelden rise to power.  They do that by becoming Chantry leaders or by playing the field of politics (Anora).  On the other hand, Loghain rose to power because he was a war hero; sure, it's conceivable for a woman to do this in Ferelden, but it's unlikely, because 99% of Ferelden's army is men. 

Have you not read the male/female text on the character creation screen?!  It quite clearly spells out that in Fereldan, men and women are treated fairly equally and have similar representation in politics, millitary, etc.

Right.  We should take everything we read at face value, despite clear evidence to the contrary. 

Oh yes.  Absolutely.  Bioware is going to just lie about the world they created in the character creator.  Mislead new players for no apparent reason.  Yeah, okay, that makes sense.  Oh wait, no it doesn't!

[Axekix]

Merilsell wrote...

I enjoy playing a female in this game. Or for this matter being female myself, this is my choice by default anyway (big surprise, ehh?) Even my main Shepard is female. That's so great in Bioware games, the female campaign feels equal to me -- can't say that for (m)any other game companies/devs.

However in Dragon Age, even from a neutral POV I don't see any single point WHY a female Warden should be less capable than a male one. That's pigeonholing of our modern society. But Ferelden is built as a society where both women and men can fight and is a pretty normal picture. As mentioned by Zevran or Leliana, a fighting woman (warrior) wouldn't be accepted in Antiva or Orlais.

As for my F!Dalish, she has been trained in dual wielding since she was able to walk as a child by her parents, who where trained/skillled rogues (as mentioned in her origin), so I don't see a problem with her being able to fight. Alone for the hunt she needed very good skills and the capability to kill, so she had learned all her life to sink her blades into flesh. Paired with her proud, unyielding attitude, no one would expect her to break down at the sight of a few darkspawn and hides herself whimpering behind Alistair. Quite the opposite, she tells him to STFU a way more often he likes it, and does the job herself.

After what the darkspawn have done to her and Tamlen she is out for bloody revenge on those creatures and won't let herself stopped by her fellow Warden, only because he is the man in the group (who doesn't want to lead anyway) So you expect her to be afraid of Sten? xD She killed an ogre before meeting him. Just saying. Anyway it's not all about strengths -- it's about skill and how perfectly being said in this threat before, before Sten has heaved his 2H sword , she would have gone princess stabbity or slice in that matter on him

Also if he means to throw a tantrum at her about women and not fighting, she would most likely look at him, deadpanned and saying: Sten, there. Entrance of the camp. Use it the other direction. I don't care.

However, since my FDalish is BFF with Sten (they like to rant about humans together xD) I don't see that happen.

Bottom line is it's always up to you how you shape your character in your mind, but it's not unrealistic to play a woman in this game -- quite the opposite.

Actually I agree with most of your points on a female Dalish PC.  Dalish culture is very different from Human culture, and they are pretty much fighting for their lives from the moment they're born.  The Sten situation (while still dangerous) could even seem more IC for a Dalish, considering their view on humans. 

Also Dalish seem to have a very inflated view of their own abilities (like the Dalish widow who thought it would be smart to attack my HNM AFTER he had broken the curse and saved their village...) so a DEF probably wouldn't even recognize the potential danger Sten could pose.  And luckily, in this case, they'd be right.

IMO Dalish and Dwarven females are much more believable as the warden than CE or HN females.

[mousestalker]

Why the dislike of CEF wardens? I thought that the most believable of all the origins. The CEF is just made of pure awesome with a bushel of anger and determination thrown in for good measure. Every other origin is a little too sweet to make a really good warden (except the dwarf origins).

[Axekix]

Well the CEF was supposedly trained by her mother, but we also find out her mother died while she was very young. So really how much training could she have gotten? Enough to almost single-handedly clear out an entire noble house? Seems like a stretch imo.



Then again maybe the Urien house is completely inept. I don't think that would fly in Highever

[mousestalker]

Axekix wrote...

Well the CEF was supposedly trained by her mother, but we also find out her mother died while she was very young. So really how much training could she have gotten? Enough to almost single-handedly clear out an entire noble house? Seems like a stretch imo.

Then again maybe the Urien house is completely inept. I don't think that would fly in Highever

I doubt the Couslands feel the need to kidnap elves to get laid.

As for the CEF, like most rpg's, a lot is left for the player to fill in. I figured my bride practised on her own, as good exercise. That plus growing up on the tough streets of the Alienage accounts for her mad skillz at killing rapists and flunkies.

[sylvanaerie]

mousestalker wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Well the CEF was supposedly trained by her mother, but we also find out her mother died while she was very young. So really how much training could she have gotten? Enough to almost single-handedly clear out an entire noble house? Seems like a stretch imo.

Then again maybe the Urien house is completely inept. I don't think that would fly in Highever

I doubt the Couslands feel the need to kidnap elves to get laid.

As for the CEF, like most rpg's, a lot is left for the player to fill in. I figured my bride practised on her own, as good exercise. That plus growing up on the tough streets of the Alienage accounts for her mad skillz at killing rapists and flunkies.

Aye look at the mess Kylon has to deal with every day.  I think Sten would be easy pickin's compared to some of the scrapes the CEF PC would get into in the back alleys of Denerim.  LOL not to mention you CAN choose the option of getting up in Duncan's grill about him being there in the Alienage.  I think he actually wears the beard to hide his laughter at some of the antics the PC's can get into with him.

[TotalLamer]

mousestalker wrote...

Why the dislike of CEF wardens? I thought that the most believable of all the origins. The CEF is just made of pure awesome with a bushel of anger and determination thrown in for good measure. Every other origin is a little too sweet to make a really good warden (except the dwarf origins).

I wouldn't exactly call the DEF origin "sweet"...

Besides, being as a DEF was a Hunter long before becoming a Grey Warden, it makes sense they would have some semblence of skill in battle.

Modifié par TotalLamer, 06 avril 2010 - 10:17 .

[Addai]

traversc wrote...

You are just putting words into my mouth.  It isn't an extreme anomaly, but it isn't typical.  You seem to miss the fact that 99% of the army is composed of men, while women are seen with the children, waving their husbands off to battle.  THAT is the definition of gender roles, and it is reinforced throughout the game. 

And yet again I say, it doesn't matter what is true for the 99% because the PC is already in the few who are so distinguished.

We're going in circles.

Re: Alistair is more experienced. 
"Unproven.  In fact, disproven.  You're just making stuff up again."

Now you are just believing whatever you want.  Alistair is very much more experienced than you are at the time REGARDLESS of gender.  Even morrigan points out this fact explicitly, and Alistair doens't disagree.  Instead, he says something like "I like following," which, again, is just not very believable IMO, and even more so with a female warden due to the prevalance of gender roles. 

Alistair and the PC are about the same age by my interpretation, and both have been trained in battle since birth.  Morrigan is talking about warden rank, not martial experience or prowess.  Even there, Alistair is still a junior warden and only has 6 months warden experience on your PC.  Hardly "very much more" experienced.

[mousestalker]

Addai67 wrote...

traversc wrote...

You are just putting words into my mouth.  It isn't an extreme anomaly, but it isn't typical.  You seem to miss the fact that 99% of the army is composed of men, while women are seen with the children, waving their husbands off to battle.  THAT is the definition of gender roles, and it is reinforced throughout the game. 

And yet again I say, it doesn't matter what is true for the 99% because the PC is already in the few who are so distinguished.

We're going in circles.

Re: Alistair is more experienced. 
"Unproven.  In fact, disproven.  You're just making stuff up again."

Now you are just believing whatever you want.  Alistair is very much more experienced than you are at the time REGARDLESS of gender.  Even morrigan points out this fact explicitly, and Alistair doens't disagree.  Instead, he says something like "I like following," which, again, is just not very believable IMO, and even more so with a female warden due to the prevalance of gender roles. 

Alistair and the PC are about the same age by my interpretation, and both have been trained in battle since birth.  Morrigan is talking about warden rank, not martial experience or prowess.  Even there, Alistair is still a junior warden and only has 6 months warden experience on your PC.  Hardly "very much more" experienced.

Which is evidenced by the whole 'why Grey Wardens are necessary to kill archdemons' thing. I'm guessing no one felt there was much of a rush to tell the new recruit anything. This would add to his anxiety of being a leader. He hasn't been properly trained, and he knows it.

Modifié par mousestalker, 06 avril 2010 - 10:28 .

[Addai]

Riordan says of the PC and Alistair "you're both new recruits..."

[traversc]

Oh yes. Absolutely. Bioware is going to just lie about the world they created in the character creator. Mislead new players for no apparent reason. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Oh wait, no it doesn't!

... Seriously? I'm not going to even justify this with a complete response. Here's a hint: could you imagine Bioware saying that men and women are NOT treated equally? Think about it. -OR- continue being snippity. Your choice.

[traversc]

And yet again I say, it doesn't matter what is true for the 99% because the PC is already in the few who are so distinguished.

I posit that it absolutely does matter. That's the entire idea behind stereotyping, after all. EVERYONE does it consciously or not and so what's true for the majority is true for the whole. Remember that this has much less to do with your ability than it does with PERCEPTION of your ability.



I also wholly dispute the claim that you're "already distinguished" altogether. My impression from MHN playthrough is that you are much less experienced than your brother. A "pup" as your father calls you. If you are so experienced, why doesn't your father send you off to battle with your brother? Why does your father say "I'm sure you would prove yourself if we sent you to battle." To me, that indicates that you are inexperienced as you have YET to prove yourself.

Alistair and the PC are about the same age by my interpretation, and both have been trained in battle since birth. Morrigan is talking about warden rank, not martial experience or prowess. Even there, Alistair is still a junior warden and only has 6 months warden experience on your PC.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, before the attack by Howe, I don't believe MHN or FHN had ANY real battle experience. (Hence the line about proving yourself, above). If so, 6 months of real fighting is a LOT of experience compared to the one day exposure you've had to darkspawn.

[Sabriana]

My HNF warrior had plenty of training. It is mentioned by Bryce, Eleanor, Dairren, Fergus, Ser Gilmore, Howe, and little Oren asks if his auntie could show him how to use a sword.



What you see in screenshots is equally just bits and pieces that you are allowed to see. Do you honestly believe that the archers only fired one single volley at the charging darkspawn? If that's true, then Cailan's battle was lost before it even began.



Alistair also didn't have ANY real battle experience. He was a templar, not a soldier. It is pointed out in-game that my HNF warrior also took part in tournaments, which is mentioned by Dairren and I think Ser Gilmore.

[sylvanaerie]

Sabriana wrote...

My HNF warrior had plenty of training. It is mentioned by Bryce, Eleanor, Dairren, Fergus, Ser Gilmore, Howe, and little Oren asks if his auntie could show him how to use a sword.

What you see in screenshots is equally just bits and pieces that you are allowed to see. Do you honestly believe that the archers only fired one single volley at the charging darkspawn? If that's true, then Cailan's battle was lost before it even began.

Alistair also didn't have ANY real battle experience. He was a templar, not a soldier. It is pointed out in-game that my HNF warrior also took part in tournaments, which is mentioned by Dairren and I think Ser Gilmore.

Plus Alistair says he was kept out of most of the fighting because of his parentage.  Duncan even coddled him.  SO really he has no more experience than the PC.  He says something like "The first time I fought them (Darkspawn) I found them monstrous.  I'm not looking forward to another."  So he has one battle (most likely when he gathered the blood for his Joining) to compare to the PC's.  And if she's a Dalish that puts them on an even score and probably way behind the Dwarven PC's.

[Axekix]

Sabriana wrote...
It is pointed out in-game that my HNF warrior also took part in tournaments, which is mentioned by Dairren and I think Ser Gilmore.

Hmm, where did you get that dialogue?  I tried several different combos but never got that on my HNF warriors.

On HNMs it's the first thing Dairren and his mother mention when you meet. 

[Sabriana]

Dairren says something like "Your skills with a blade are quite excellent".

Another NPC comments on the tourney. I wish I could remember who it was. I'm playing a Blood Mage right now, and my other one is a HNF rogue. Only the warrior gets that line, though, and she is the only one who gets the "and you trained her as a warrior...." from Howe.

Eleanor tells Iona that she (Eleanor) "was quite the Battle Maiden..." and comments to Iona's saying to the PC: "You are as beautiful as I was told." with "and you say that after watching her sweat and grunt while training with her sword." (paraphrased).

I'm not at home, or I'd try to check through the toolset. I'll do it later, though. There are comments on the HNF's prowess with deadly cutlery all over the place. Perhaps that would help you see her as quite capable in her own right.