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[Venatio]

Axekix wrote...

(HNM origin, for example, states that you beat Dairren at the last melee tourney.  Females don’t get that dialogue).
....

I dont think I got that dialogue for my HNM Rogue, do only warriors get it or do I have to access the conversation properly?

[errant_knight]

My only rule of thumb on that particular conversation (the dark ritual) is that I won't lie to him or use coercion, but that's just my own rule. It can be done, but I'm not comfortable with it.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 mars 2010 - 03:48 .

[Sarah1281]

If you're playing HNF he tries to break up with you because he needs an heir or else the next generation will have another succession problem and GW have very low fertility. Two GW together have no chance of having a child naturally so either you find some creative methods (what kind of research was Avernus doing again?) or one of you has a child with someone else.

[Axekix]

Venatio wrote...

Axekix wrote...

(HNM origin, for example, states that you beat Dairren at the last melee tourney.  Females don’t get that dialogue).
....

I dont think I got that dialogue for my HNM Rogue, do only warriors get it or do I have to access the conversation properly?

Hmm it might be warrior only.  You get it when you're first introduced to Dairren and his mother as a HNM warrior.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you're playing HNF he tries to break up with you because he needs an heir or else the next generation will have another succession problem and GW have very low fertility. Two GW together have no chance of having a child naturally so either you find some creative methods (what kind of research was Avernus doing again?) or one of you has a child with someone else.

Heh. We were trying not to totally spoil it for him.

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
On the proposal yea thats pretty much how it goes down.  I wish you did have an opportunity to bring it up pre landsmeet but its not an option. 

He doesn't propose?  Even if you harden him?  How lame...

Its not lame. Why would the guy have to propose anyway?  Your PC is a capable woman, you can arrange and wheel and deal all kinds of outcomes there.  Again we get down to game mechanics.  Alistair won't be proposing because it takes the control of whats happening out of your hands.  Also for RP reasons Errant hit the nail on the head when describing his personality.  A lot of his problems stem from thinking no one will like him for himself.  Thats even one of the convo options after the Landsmeet when he joins you in Eamon's estate.  He asks you why you wanted to marry him, (or even if you were serious about it).

I guess, to me anyway, a lack of self confidence isn't an attractive quality.  And from a male pov anyway it's definitely not something you're groomed to display to women irl.

If he proposed it would at least show he's confident enough to go after the one he "loves."  Forcing it on him kind of cheapens it to me.

I took these parts of the poet landsmeet conversation differently, in that it's more about whether you wanted to marry him, or become queen. It also allows Alistair to say that he likes the idea when game mechanics prevented that previously. Some people roleplay characters who are more interested in being queen than Alistair's wife. This dialogue allows them to set that out. While I see him as being initially unconfident about the relationship as well as his abilities, he can have come a long way by landsmeet, especially if hardened. As mentioned before, his reasons for not proposing are related to his duty as king.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 mars 2010 - 04:01 .

[Sarah1281]

Would you get it as a HNF warrior too? I've only ever played HNF rogue because Highever is so frustrating when you can't open half the doors.

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Would you get it as a HNF warrior too? I've only ever played HNF rogue because Highever is so frustrating when you can't open half the doors.

Nope, I've tried. :/

He says he's seen you training and gives you some generic compliment on your blade work, or something like that.

Modifié par Axekix, 26 mars 2010 - 03:55 .

[Ceridraen]

It just sounds like a matter of taste. I'm female, with one female pc (elf mage) and 2 males. (human noble & City Elf rogue) With the males, I had it planned a certain way. One would romance Morrigan, the other Leliana, so that I could get all their stories. The Morrigan, noble guy worked fine, but the City Elf found Leliana annoying. (I liked her as a friend to my mage.) I thought, well, Zevran? But apparently, he's not interested in men, either. I finally just played through with him as single, figuring he'll find someone on his own later. I also played him as fairly experienced romantically, so he wasn't as gullible as the human noble.



I think it's what you like, male or female. I also tried to make a Dalish elf & dwarf commoner for Zevran, but though I really like him, my girls just loved Alistair. He's sweet, he's good, he's funny, & he's protective. Better still, he's not 'alpha.' I loathe the very notion of alpha men, in life or in games, so that works! My dwarf wanted a nice, sturdy dwarf man, of her own age, & stayed single, too.



I don't think it's a male/female thing. I think we just have our own tastes, and you won't enjoy it unless you acknowledge your own. I just found myself rushing through the 'try to romance Zevran' attempts. I stopped playing my Leliana-boyfriend rogue. (and ended up rolling a new one - had better hair, too...)

[Venatio]

Axekix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Would you get it as a HNF warrior too? I've only ever played HNF rogue because Highever is so frustrating when you can't open half the doors.

Nope, I've tried. :/

He says he's seen you training and gives you some generic compliment on your blade work, or something like that.

Thats not fair, my rogue could have beaten him in a duel. Although its interesting Bioware made that distinction it still rankles.

[urvashi]

I'm female but I most often play male characters in games because even when the choice to play as female is offered, it often seems tacked on to a story tailored more for a male character. Dragon Age is a huge exception to that, and the only game where I've played more female characters than male. I think they did a great job at making the origin stories real for both male and female characters.

I have never once considered Sten's size as a factor in deciding to take him along or not, just as in real life I would not use size as the main factor in assessing the potential threat of a male I'm encountering. A small woman can take down a much larger man if she's trained in self defense. My PCs have all impressed Duncan enough to be conscripted as Grey Wardens and have fought Alpha Hurlocks and an Ogre at Ostagar before getting to Lothering, so Sten is kind of chump change by then anyway.

[LadyDamodred]

You know, I totally bet the reason you couldn't be in the tournament was because of your mom.



*grumbles*



My PC loves her mother, but really, the woman needs to face reality.

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
On the proposal yea thats pretty much how it goes down.  I wish you did have an opportunity to bring it up pre landsmeet but its not an option. 

He doesn't propose?  Even if you harden him?  How lame...

Its not lame. Why would the guy have to propose anyway?  Your PC is a capable woman, you can arrange and wheel and deal all kinds of outcomes there.  Again we get down to game mechanics.  Alistair won't be proposing because it takes the control of whats happening out of your hands.  Also for RP reasons Errant hit the nail on the head when describing his personality.  A lot of his problems stem from thinking no one will like him for himself.  Thats even one of the convo options after the Landsmeet when he joins you in Eamon's estate.  He asks you why you wanted to marry him, (or even if you were serious about it).

I guess, to me anyway, a lack of self confidence isn't an attractive quality.  And from a male pov anyway it's definitely not something you're groomed to display to women irl.

If he proposed it would at least show he's confident enough to go after the one he "loves."  Forcing it on him kind of cheapens it to me.

I'm really lousy at the cut and paste stuff of quotations.  So I will try to answer your queries as best I can. Bear with me.  No I don't feel this diminishes the merits of Alistair as a love interest at all.  You are perceiving this world with a modern man's mentality.  Ferelden doesn't seem like it has gender stereotypes to me with women being as capable as men.  (there are notable exceptions to this of course) but even your fem warden is perceived as a capable fighter (Your Cousland mom was quite the battlemaiden in her time as well and would scoff if you told her to go hide in her room during the HN origin story).  Dairren, your father several others point out that you have a mind of your own and are quite capable of taking care of yourself in a battlefield.  So females are as capable as men in all aspects of Ferelden life, including love. Your female CAN proposition Alistair if you want to (I don't as I find it more fulfilling to wait till I do his personal quest) and propose to him, flirt with any NPC who is open to it (you will recall I love to flirt with Teagan).  You can take Dairren or Iona to your bed in the HN Origin and even discuss such activities right in front of your parents.  

Even Duncan gives your PC a vote of confidence.  Its YOU not Ser Gilmore who was always his choice of recruit.  

If you play a FemCity elf this becomes even more apparent as you technically shouldn't have as good a training as a Human Noble woman also you lack mass but that doesn't stop you from rescuing your wedding party and preventing your own rape and beating off armed/armored guards.  You can even get all up into Duncan's face trying to oust him from the Alienage. (not that that works but still you CAN if you want to play it that way)

As for Sten, there is no reason to equate size or whatever skill he is said to have with what your PC has learned herself.  Would you think the same thing if you were playing a male PC.  Gender has nothing to do with that situation.  Your FemWarden is as capable as a male when dealing with Sten.  Size or even his skill in battle don't matter.  The PC is presumed to be as or more skilled than Sten. 

Women in Ferelden can have as much courage and capability as any of their male counterparts.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

I see more female character profiles than males on this topic lol. If you really look into the game, I doubt a female would be able to control Sten. I mean Sten is from a sexist culture, and he wouldn't take orders from a female too easily. I don't know what woman would actually approach Sten in real life lol. If you are a female warden mage, make sure Sten doesn't chose templar as his specilization because he would seriously eat you alive lol. On the other hand, a male could easily tame Sten. Just look at the Pac-Man in boxing, he is small, yet he beats the crap out of fighters bigger and stronger than him.



Remembering from my sociology class, there was a small poll asking if people would rather have a male or a female manager. A large proportion chose males, even females chose males. Now, this is from the whole politcally correct time period so just imagine how hard it would be for a known female to actually lead men into battle back then... I know I would probably feel uneasy being led by a woman into battle, but that is just my sexist self speaking lol.

[Nhadalie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

You know, I totally bet the reason you couldn't be in the tournament was because of your mom.

*grumbles*

My PC loves her mother, but really, the woman needs to face reality.

That depends on what kind of HN PC you play. Personally, I have two different ones. One that is obssessed with battle strategy, and proving herself. And another that is more interested in just having fun, and doing whatever she wants. Granted, neither of them are interested in getting seriously involved with a guy and giving her more grandchildren like she wants.

I think everyone else covered everything pretty well. It's all in how you play a character. You could play a female PC as if they're a strong amazon type woman. Or you could play them as the agile, dirty fighting kind.(I tend to lean more towards the latter, personally.)

I agree about forcing marriage on Alistair in the landsmeet being awkward. Unfortunately, for the game, they wanted to make it your choice. I'm pretty sure that most people who write fanfics about it will change it so that Alistair proposes instead. Because really, it's not that awkward for a guy to ask a girl to marry him immediately after becoming King. Especially not for a hardened Alistair, who is more self serving than the unhardened version.

Regardless, it's one of those things where they just couldn't implement it in another way and give you so many options for what to do in the situation.(Since any HNF can marry Alistair, even without being in a romance with him.) They chose to give the PC more options rather than going with a better done scene for that situation.

Modifié par Nhadalie, 26 mars 2010 - 04:22 .

[LadyDamodred]

Indeed. My HNF warrior was all 'I'm wanna be a Grey warden! Hooray! Mom and Dad can I please, huh? Huh? Can I? Can I? Can I?'

My HNF rogue was more 'Yeah, Dairren, bedchamber after dinner tonight, nice meeting you Duncan, I gots a castle to run.' Duncan very nearly had to conscript her ass.

Also, in my fanfic, Alistair does not propose to my Cousland. It's prolly in the way I chose to rp my characters in my stories. She names herself queen for several reasons, the most important being that she loves Alistair, but there are other reasons as well. It always feels like I'm cheapening her entire rp storyline by just reversing that.

Edit:  You know, they could have added a conversation where you discuss marrying Alistair like they do with the setting up Alistair/Anora together.  Hrm.  It displeases me now that I think about it.  It would still be my characters idea, but it would be nice if she didn't have to surprise Alistair with it in front of the entire Landsmeet.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 26 mars 2010 - 04:26 .

[Sarah1281]

If you really look into the game, I doubt a female would be able to control Sten. I mean Sten is from a sexist culture, and he wouldn't take orders from a female too easily. I don't know what woman would actually approach Sten in real life lol.

If he does try to take control (in Haven) all you need to do is defeat him and then assumng he lives through the encounter and isn't dismissed, he respects your authority once more.



And Sten's sexism doesn't lean towards the 'I won't listen to her because she's a girl and therefore doesn't know what she's doing' he just seems to be laboring under the impression that you're a guy as he seems being a girl and being a warrior as mutually exclusive and you're clearly a warrior.

[Addai]

Speaking as a female, I have none of your issues, OP. Alistair is charming and his awkwardness is endearing. His reticence in Lothering is offset by the fact that outside Flemeth's hut, it's usually him pushing my PC to get off the dime. Plus it's just game mechanics.  You're the PC- you're god. I do harden him after his personal quest, otherwise he doesn't show well for himself when it comes to the kingship, otherwise, he's a wonderful character and I have to pull my PCs away from the center of camp. The Zevran romance is equally as lovely and in some ways even deeper.  He also makes a great friend even to my female PCs who end up with Alistair.

Sten has issues with you as a female warrior, but it only makes it all the sweeter (and sexier, I might add ) when he starts calling you "kadan." Overcoming such limitations of leadership are part of the fun of the game for me.  My PC is as confident in her abilities as any man.

I've only played one male PC and thus far I haven't gotten him very far through the game. It's an odd perspective switch.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mars 2010 - 04:47 .

[Nhadalie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Indeed. My HNF warrior was all 'I'm wanna be a Grey warden! Hooray! Mom and Dad can I please, huh? Huh? Can I? Can I? Can I?'

That sounds a lot like Kendra. Except she's not quite so perky about it. She idolizes the Grey Wardens. Except Kendra is a rogue. I've never actually made a warrior HNF.

LadyDamodred wrote...
My HNF rogue was more 'Yeah, Dairren, bedchamber after dinner tonight, nice meeting you Duncan, I gots a castle to run.' Duncan very nearly had to conscript her ass.

But it's so satisfying to say "I'm not interested in becoming a Grey Warden" in the beginning. Especially with how smug Bryce is about it. Hilarious.

My second HNF, Cerridwyn, who is my avi actually, is very.. Er. Immature to say the least. She has no real interest in relationships, or being in charge of anything. She was convinced that she'd handle Highever with her mother's help, since she doesn't think she's capable of handling it on her own. Possibly teach Oren how to pull some classic pranks on people. She's very much the immature, naive prankster type of character.

LadyDamodred wrote...

Also, in my fanfic, Alistair does not propose to my Cousland. It's prolly in the way I chose to rp my characters in my stories. She names herself queen for several reasons, the most important being that she loves Alistair, but there are other reasons as well. It always feels like I'm cheapening her entire rp storyline by just reversing that.

Edit:  You know, they could have added a conversation where you discuss marrying Alistair like they do with the setting up Alistair/Anora together.  Hrm.  It displeases me now that I think about it.  It would still be my characters idea, but it would be nice if she didn't have to surprise Alistair with it in front of the entire Landsmeet.

In my fanfic, Alistair ends up proposing to Kendra. (Cerridwyn doesn't romance him. And her fanfic story is only going to be covering Awakening. I might go back and do Origins for her eventually however. But he does show some interest in her in my story, she's just.. Er.. Oblivious.)

That's the main thing that bothers me. You don't even get to discuss the idea before hand. It's pretty much like you grab Alistair, and drag him to the Fereldan version of a Las Vegas chapel whether he likes it or not, and declare him the ruler of Fereldan at the same time.(Cue Zevran dressing up in polyester with far too much hair gel to handle the wedding. And rice throwing, and exploding nugs, and.. Oghren checking out the bridesmaids.)

[Addai]

Oh, about Morrigan, my female PCs all end up friends with her. My mage PC especially saw her as a kindred spirit and a sister, as Morrigan herself says at the end of the game. It's just as odd for me, I guess, being buddies with Alistair or Zevran on my male PC game, when I'm used to seeing them as LI. It gives a different perspective, though. Quite interesting.

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
As for Sten, there is no reason to equate size or whatever skill he is said to have with what your PC has learned herself.  Would you think the same thing if you were playing a male PC.  Gender has nothing to do with that situation.  Your FemWarden is as capable as a male when dealing with Sten.  Size or even his skill in battle don't matter.  The PC is presumed to be as or more skilled than Sten. 

You think so?  I tend to agree with what Solid Everest said:

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I see more female character
profiles than males on this topic lol. If you really look into the game,
I doubt a female would be able to control Sten. I mean Sten is from a
sexist culture, and he wouldn't take orders from a female too easily. I
don't know what woman would actually approach Sten in real life lol.

Sten's huge, well experienced and an admitted murderer of innocents.  I mean even playing as a male PC I usually have to think twice about it, I have a hard time imagining any female jumping at the opportunity to free him.

[Addai]

Give me a break. Fighting is not only about bulk and strength. In the time it takes a 2H warrior to wind up for a swing, you could have a dagger stuck in his ribs and the fight is over. If you guys think women are this wimpy, it's no wonder you have trouble playing a female Warden.

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
As for Sten, there is no reason to equate size or whatever skill he is said to have with what your PC has learned herself.  Would you think the same thing if you were playing a male PC.  Gender has nothing to do with that situation.  Your FemWarden is as capable as a male when dealing with Sten.  Size or even his skill in battle don't matter.  The PC is presumed to be as or more skilled than Sten. 

You think so?  I tend to agree with what Solid Everest said:

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I see more female character
profiles than males on this topic lol. If you really look into the game,
I doubt a female would be able to control Sten. I mean Sten is from a
sexist culture, and he wouldn't take orders from a female too easily. I
don't know what woman would actually approach Sten in real life lol.

Sten's huge, well experienced and an admitted murderer of innocents.  I mean even playing as a male PC I usually have to think twice about it, I have a hard time imagining any female jumping at the opportunity to free him.

Oh I don't jump at the opportunity. I have to go through all the dialogue trees till I learn that he basically turned himself in and regrets what he did and seeks to atone for it.  But being afraid of him because hes a guy and I am a woman, no it doesn't come into play in my thinking at all. My PC is also capable of handling herself in a fight.  Plus I have others in my group to back me up if it came to that. I can't imagine everyone just standing there while Sten tries to make me a puddle of goo on the campground.

and yea I agree with Addai...it takes so damn long for Sten to crank up his 2hander by then my rogue would have gone all princess stabbity on him.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 26 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[Sarah1281]

Sten's huge, well experienced and an admitted murderer of innocents.

Again: ogres have at least a few feet on him and you've already taken one. I'm fairly certain we don't know how experienced Sten is until after freeing him and he killed a bunch of FARMERS. Not very nice, certainly, but no indication he could take you. Besides, you say it like it will just be a one-on-one fight whereas realistically if he tried to attack you your other companions would jump in, like they do at every other point in the game where a companion turns on you.

[Gabey5]

i really didnt care for female in dragon age but in mass effect it was a diff story. in this game were the character isnt voiced it is difficult to play female

[LadyDamodred]

Nhadalie wrote...
That sounds a lot like Kendra. Except she's not quite so perky about it. She idolizes the Grey Wardens. Except Kendra is a rogue. I've never actually made a warrior HNF.

Well, I wouldn't call Lya...perky.  She did want to sign up, though.  She very much wanted to prove herself outside of just her family name.  Not to say she doesn't like being a Cousland.  She's increbily proud of her heritage.  She just chafes a bit under the restictions that come with it.  She wants to get out there and so stuff.  And for me, warrior seems more fitting for the two noble lines, humand and dwarf.  I had truble with my HNF rogue.  *shrugs* Dunno why.

Nhadalie wrote...

That's the main thing that bothers me. You don't even get to discuss the idea before hand. It's pretty much like you grab Alistair, and drag him to the Fereldan version of a Las Vegas chapel whether he likes it or not, and declare him the ruler of Fereldan at the same time.(Cue Zevran dressing up in polyester with far too much hair gel to handle the wedding. And rice throwing, and exploding nugs, and.. Oghren checking out the bridesmaids.)

Agreed.  There really should have been some sort of option to discuss it.  Ah well, I guess that's what our overactive, fangirly imaginations are for.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 26 mars 2010 - 04:54 .