573 réponses à ce sujet

[DWSmiley]

sylvanaerie wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

I love Loghain he should be romanceable.



That will probably set someone off..lol

(Truely though I love his voice, its very sexy)

I hate him actually and if he were romanceable I would probably have to put him through unspeakably horrible tortures before I ripped out his heart emotionally.  I think his voice sounds like he gargles with razorblades.  Highly annoying. And usually I find an English accent sexy.  Though I think it has more to do with the way he speaks (as the VA does the sassed mage in the scene when you find Alistair in Ostagar and I don't find him annoying there).

I think Loghain is a tragic figure - a courageous hero whose love of his country devours his soul.  For the sake of Ferelden, he sacrifices a foolhardy king and the Wardens, though only after repeatedly trying to dissuade Cailan from giving battle.  As for the Wardens, well, they have a chequered past in Ferelden and he deeply distrusts their motives, especially the Orlesian Wardens.  It was a ruthless decision but not diabolic.  Then civil war ensues and he realizes it's a real Blight.  But he remains obsessed with preserving Ferelden and (as Alistair observes) he arrogantly thinks he alone knows best.  This leads him to accepting scum like Howe and the slavers as allies.  But you can see glimpses of tension in his face in the cut scenes.  I think that somewhere deep inside, he knows he is on the slippery slope to perdition.

It is classic "the end justifies the means" of course.  But that is also the motto of the Wardens!  They are "Grey" because they will do whatever it takes to end a Blight.

If you spare Loghain you can have a lengthy conversation with him in camp that reveals what a complicated man he is - guilty of terrible things yet with admirable qualities.  Yet another example of the awesomeness of the writing in the game.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 08 avril 2010 - 08:21 .

[sylvanaerie]

DWSmiley wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

I love Loghain he should be romanceable.



That will probably set someone off..lol

(Truely though I love his voice, its very sexy)

I hate him actually and if he were romanceable I would probably have to put him through unspeakably horrible tortures before I ripped out his heart emotionally.  I think his voice sounds like he gargles with razorblades.  Highly annoying. And usually I find an English accent sexy.  Though I think it has more to do with the way he speaks (as the VA does the sassed mage in the scene when you find Alistair in Ostagar and I don't find him annoying there).

I think Loghain is a tragic figure - a courageous hero whose love of his country devours his soul.  For the sake of Ferelden, he sacrifices a foolhardy king and the Wardens, though only after repeatedly trying to dissuade Cailan from giving battle.  As for the Wardens, well, they have a chequered past in Ferelden and he deeply distrusts their motives, especially the Orlesian Wardens.  It was a ruthless decision but not diabolic.  Then civil war ensues and he realizes it's a real Blight.  But he remains obsessed with preserving Ferelden and (as Alistair observes) he arrogantly thinks he alone knows best.  This leads him to accepting scum like Howe and the slavers as allies.  But you can see glimpses of tension in his face in the cut scenes.  I think that somewhere deep inside, he knows he is on the slippery slope to perdition.

It is classic "the end justifies the means" of course.  But that is also the motto of the Wardens!  They are "Grey" because they will do whatever it takes to end a Blight.

If you spare Loghain you can have a lengthy conversation with him in camp that reveals what a complicated man he is - guilty of terrible things yet with admirable qualities.  Yet another example of the awesomeness of the writing in the game.

Oh I agree he is very well written. Doesn't change the fact that I still hate the NPC and I still kill him every Landsmeet.  In fact after the Landsmeet the game goes into anticlimatic mode for me.  He was far more engaging an opponent than some mindless darkspawn are by dint of his complexities and his motives. But by the time I finish with the slavers I have such a hate on for him (even if I set out with "this will be the game I will redeem him and get that elusive Redeemer ending" mentality) but by then his fate is sealed.  I want so badly to kill him for selling CHILDREN mind you children to bloodmages in Tevinter that I can't spare him.  
Of course him telling me that the murderer of my family is now Teryn of Highever to my face just starts that downward spiral to his doom.
This game is the most immersive one I have ever played so far.  I think the only thing that would make it more so is if it had VR technology and you can get hands on with the darkspawns.
And the only conversations I had with him in camp were more of his crappy "I was right and you were wrong" BS.  

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 03:08 .

[Sarah1281]

I want so badly to kill him for selling CHILDREN mind you children to bloodmages in Tevinter that I can't spare him.

Did they sell children? I thought it was just the adults who went to the hospice.

[sylvanaerie]

men women and children. The guy in the one abandoned apartment building tells you there were parades every few days of people, even brings up the children crying.  I think the line is "OH Maker the little ones crying..."
I can't bear when bad things happen to kids.  It brings out the mama bear in me. 

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 04:01 .

[rak72]

traversc wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Ummm... Wasn't the discussion of this thread about how a new female warden doesn't have the training and skilz that the male version of her does???????????? The conversation with Mo would prove that to the contrary. so FFS you

No, it wasn't and hasn't been for the last 20 posts or so....

Realy?????  Then why does it say in your post above mine:

traversc wrote...

Someone quoted that Alistair had been in the grey wardens for 6 months.  Even taking into account that he obviously didn't fight every day, that's a TON more battle experience than the 1-2 days you've had previous.  That, plus the fact that he actually HAS encountered darkspawn before, whereas you have not, makes him much more experienced IMO. 

But again, I'm always happy to talk about Teagan

Modifié par rak72, 09 avril 2010 - 04:17 .

[Axekix]

rak72 wrote...

But again, I'm always happy to talk about Tehgan

Teagan totally hijacked my thread.  I'm sooo leaving Redcliffe to the zombies next game.

[ejoslin]

Axekix wrote...

rak72 wrote...

But again, I'm always happy to talk about Tehgan

Teagan totally hijacked my thread.  I'm sooo leaving Redcliffe to the zombies next game.

Oh, it's worth doing, at least once.  

Teagan gets really upset.

Edit: Yes, but no one quoted me, so it didn't happen.

Second edit: One day later, I find a bad letter, so I'm pedantic enough to have to correct it!

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 avril 2010 - 02:53 .

[Sarah1281]

The guy in the one abandoned apartment building tells you there were parades every few days of people, even brings up the children crying.

That explains it. He's really, really annoying with his refusal to acknowledge what's going on until you pay him and then he starts wailing about how awful it is. If he were really that concerned, you shouldn't have to bribe him to talk to you. Since I already know where to go, I never talk to him anymore.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 09 avril 2010 - 05:31 .

[mousestalker]

You can find everything out without bribing him.

My miser character got him to spill his guts without spending a copper.

Modifié par mousestalker, 09 avril 2010 - 08:42 .

[sylvanaerie]

mousestalker wrote...

You can find everything out without bribing him.

My miser character got him to spill his guts without spending a copper.

yep mine too

@Axekix

MMMM Teagan....

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 02:34 .

[DWSmiley]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Oh I agree he is very well written. Doesn't change the fact that I still hate the NPC and I still kill him every Landsmeet.  In fact after the Landsmeet the game goes into anticlimatic mode for me.  He was far more engaging an opponent than some mindless darkspawn are by dint of his complexities and his motives. But by the time I finish with the slavers I have such a hate on for him (even if I set out with "this will be the game I will redeem him and get that elusive Redeemer ending" mentality) but by then his fate is sealed.  I want so badly to kill him for selling CHILDREN mind you children to bloodmages in Tevinter that I can't spare him.  
Of course him telling me that the murderer of my family is now Teryn of Highever to my face just starts that downward spiral to his doom.
This game is the most immersive one I have ever played so far.  I think the only thing that would make it more so is if it had VR technology and you can get hands on with the darkspawns.
And the only conversations I had with him in camp were more of his crappy "I was right and you were wrong" BS.  

So immersive!  I couldn't believe how upset I was with Alistair my first time when he ran off - and then later learn he becomes a drunk.  I make sure he is always hardened now; it makes any ending better.  (I much prefer a hardened Leliana, too - not sure what that says about me!)

My elf wardens kill Loghain, of course, and my dwarf commoner did, too.  But my noble wardens are "whatever it takes to end the Blight" + "best military commander available" + "maybe he dies in the Joining anyway" = spare him and keep him on a tight leash.  Even my human noble's vengeance was sufficiently sated by gutting Howe with her daggers, so she was able to take the big picture view on Loghain.  Though, oh, how I wish they had a bloodier death scene for Howe!

And Loghain's arrogance is tempered by that point.  Before the duel he comments that a person can be measured by the quality of their enemies and wonders if that says more about him or you.  In camp afterward he admits he badly understimated the Warden and at the end asks (not demands) to be allowed to redeem himself by making the ultimate sacrifice.  At least, he starts by asking.  I readily agreed so I don't know if he would have insisted.  Or, if you've done the Dark Ritual, he gets tasked with rebuilding the Wardens and acknowledges the irony of that.  He makes a Very Dark Grey Warden, to be sure, but I see some redeeming qualities.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 09 avril 2010 - 02:39 .

[sylvanaerie]

DWSmiley wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Oh I agree he is very well written. Doesn't change the fact that I still hate the NPC and I still kill him every Landsmeet.  In fact after the Landsmeet the game goes into anticlimatic mode for me.  He was far more engaging an opponent than some mindless darkspawn are by dint of his complexities and his motives. But by the time I finish with the slavers I have such a hate on for him (even if I set out with "this will be the game I will redeem him and get that elusive Redeemer ending" mentality) but by then his fate is sealed.  I want so badly to kill him for selling CHILDREN mind you children to bloodmages in Tevinter that I can't spare him.  
Of course him telling me that the murderer of my family is now Teryn of Highever to my face just starts that downward spiral to his doom.
This game is the most immersive one I have ever played so far.  I think the only thing that would make it more so is if it had VR technology and you can get hands on with the darkspawns.
And the only conversations I had with him in camp were more of his crappy "I was right and you were wrong" BS.  

So immersive!  I couldn't believe how upset I was with Alistair my first time when he ran off - and then later learn he becomes a drunk.  I make sure he is always hardened now; it makes any ending better.  (I much prefer a hardened Leliana, too - not sure what that says about me!)

My elf wardens kill Loghain, of course, and my dwarf commoner did, too.  But my noble wardens are "whatever it takes to end the Blight" + "best military commander available" + "maybe he dies in the Joining anyway" = spare him and keep him on a tight leash.  Even my human noble's vengeance was sufficiently sated by gutting Howe with her daggers, so she was able to take the big picture view on Loghain.  Though, oh, how I wish they had a bloodier death scene for Howe!

And Loghain's arrogance is tempered by that point.  Before the duel he comments that a person can be measured by the quality of their enemies and wonders if that says more about him or you.  In camp afterward he admits he badly understimated the Warden and at the end asks (not demands) to be allowed to redeem himself by making the ultimate sacrifice.  At least, he starts by asking.  I readily agreed so I don't know if he would have insisted.  Or, if you've done the Dark Ritual, he gets tasked with rebuilding the Wardens and acknowledges the irony of that.  He makes a Very Dark Grey Warden, to be sure, but I see some redeeming qualities.

Thing is I always laugh when Anora tries to point out he's such a great general when he really isn't. The character is an incompetent boob IMO.  He won one war 30 years ago and in the 30 years of peace following didn't do anything. Then his plan gets bollocks'ed up in Ostagar (if he planned on winning it at all and not just feeding Cailan to the wolves). THEN instead of dealing with the problem he races across the nation (grabbing the Banns on the way) to declare himself regent.  Its like he opened the door and waved in the Darkspawn allowing them to cause so much more damage than just dealing with it in Ostagar would have done.  I think both Cailan AND Loghain weren't thinking properly the entire debacle.  My Warden was far more capable in the role of commander.  He just becomes the sidekick to feed to the AD if I would ever allow him to live.  I never let him live beyond satisfying my curiosity in the camp that one time I wanted to see what he had to say.

Plus his "Daughters in pigtails" speech rings like the height of hypocrisy on my Female PC when I know he sacrificed all those elven daughters to Tevinter and protected Howe (and then tries to castigate my PC for "murdering" him).  I was Bryce's daughter but he wants to NOW tell me "bring him to the senescal" ? Uh uh.  I agree with you on Howe's murder scene that it was too damn short.

*Edit* I did just fine without Loghain the entire game I didn't need him then to end the Blight and I didn't trust him.  Besides Howe's death didn't satisfy my bloodlust, just as sparing Caladrius would have left me feeling unfinished in the situation. Just as all of Howe's men had to die with him so did all the slavers and Loghain had to die.  I can't justify sparing him in my mind (I never play the "ends justifies the means" PCs who will do anything to stop the Blight).  There is so little left of the PC's old life she won't fall to that.  She will always look for some other option.  I don't always spare Avernus either though different PCs have different views of his experiments.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 03:07 .

[DWSmiley]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Thing is I always laugh when Anora tries to point out he's such a great general when he really isn't. The character is an incompetent boob IMO.  He won one war 30 years ago and in the 30 years of peace following didn't do anything. Then his plan gets bollocks'ed up in Ostagar (if he planned on winning it at all and not just feeding Cailan to the wolves). THEN instead of dealing with the problem he races across the nation (grabbing the Banns on the way) to declare himself regent.  Its like he opened the door and waved in the Darkspawn allowing them to cause so much more damage than just dealing with it in Ostagar would have done.  I think both Cailan AND Loghain weren't thinking properly the entire debacle.  My Warden was far more capable in the role of commander.  He just becomes the sidekick to feed to the AD if I would ever allow him to live.  I never let him live beyond satisfying my curiosity in the camp that one time I wanted to see what he had to say.

Plus his "Daughters in pigtails" speech rings like the height of hypocrisy on my Female PC when I know he sacrificed all those elven daughters to Tevinter and protected Howe (and then tries to castigate my PC for "murdering" him).  I was Bryce's daughter but he wants to NOW tell me "bring him to the senescal" ? Uh uh.  I agree with you on Howe's murder scene that it was too damn short.

He was a good general but terrible ruler.  As the game progresses, there are several comments one can overhear about him winning yet another battle against a Bann.  We don't learn exactly what he wanted to do at Ostagar - possibly wait for Eamon's reinforcements.  But when he couldn't dissuade Cailan from glory-seeking it was feeding the wolves time.  The "murdering" Howe line struck me as posturing for the sake of swaying the votes of the Arls.  And "daughters in pigtails" had some truth to it.  Anora was and would still be an excellent ruler but she couldn't completely overcome her hero worhsip of her father.  But then, neither could Ser Cauthrien.  The man respected women for their talents and got a lot of respect in return.

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Plus his "Daughters in pigtails" speech rings like the height of hypocrisy on my Female PC when I know he sacrificed all those elven daughters to Tevinter and protected Howe (and then tries to castigate my PC for "murdering" him).  I was Bryce's daughter but he wants to NOW tell me "bring him to the senescal" ? Uh uh.  I agree with you on Howe's murder scene that it was too damn short.

Indeed.  My HNF felt more conflicted about executing him than my elven characters since they grew up on tales of River Dane, but he a) declares Howe as Teyrn of Highever to your face, has the cojones to tell YOU that Howe should have been brought to a seneschal.  As if he was ever going to do that?!  Instead, he was rewarding and promoting him.  Loghain knew in Ostagar what had happened to your family.  I am sure he let himself believe Howe's lies about your family conspiring with Orlais, but regardless it's obvious that if he won the day, he would finish what Howe started.

[Addai]

DWSmiley wrote...
He was a good general but terrible ruler.  As the game progresses, there are several comments one can overhear about him winning yet another battle against a Bann.  We don't learn exactly what he wanted to do at Ostagar - possibly wait for Eamon's reinforcements. 

Wait for Eamon???  You mean Eamon whom he had had poisoned?

He was not a good general.  He was a superb strategist, however, and had he carried out the strategy he himself had laid out for victory in Ostagar, I think he would have won.  When he saw the beacon, however, he decided to pursue his other strategy.  He would probably have gotten away with that one but for Flemeth and the PC.

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...
He was a good general but terrible ruler.  As the game progresses, there are several comments one can overhear about him winning yet another battle against a Bann.  We don't learn exactly what he wanted to do at Ostagar - possibly wait for Eamon's reinforcements. 

Wait for Eamon???  You mean Eamon whom he had had poisoned?

He was not a good general.  He was a superb strategist, however, and had he carried out the strategy he himself had laid out for victory in Ostagar, I think he would have won.  When he saw the beacon, however, he decided to pursue his other strategy.  He would probably have gotten away with that one but for Flemeth and the PC.

Yea you could practically see the mustache twirling at the war council. I looked into Loghain's face and thought to myself "Well this can only end in tears..."

And I still say he was a lousy general unless killing Cailan and letting the darkspawn overwhelm the country while he fought for the throne was Loghain's Plan B.  In that instance I guess since he got what he wanted that would mean he wasn't as much of a bad general as I thought.  Can't say it did much for Ferelden though...

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 03:16 .

[DWSmiley]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...
He was a good general but terrible ruler.  As the game progresses, there are several comments one can overhear about him winning yet another battle against a Bann.  We don't learn exactly what he wanted to do at Ostagar - possibly wait for Eamon's reinforcements. 

Wait for Eamon???  You mean Eamon whom he had had poisoned?

He was not a good general.  He was a superb strategist, however, and had he carried out the strategy he himself had laid out for victory in Ostagar, I think he would have won.  When he saw the beacon, however, he decided to pursue his other strategy.  He would probably have gotten away with that one but for Flemeth and the PC.

Yea you could practically see the mustache twirling at the war council. I looked into Loghain's face and thought to myself "Well this can only end in tears..."

And I still say he was a lousy general unless killing Cailan and letting the darkspawn overwhelm the country while he fought for the throne was Loghain's Plan B.  In that instance I guess since he got what he wanted that would mean he wasn't as much of a bad general as I thought.  Can't say it did much for Ferelden though...

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it but the timing of the poisoning is crucial to figuring out what was plan A vs. plan B.  Passage of time isn't always clear (for instance, how long does it take to walk to Lothering afterward, dodging darkspawn along the way?) but it does seem Jowan was already on his mission at the time of the battle.  Loghain must have realized it was unlikely he could talk Cailan into a prudent course of action and if he removes Cailan he needs to remove Eamon, too.  That seems to be plan A.  And if Cailan had surprised and foregone battle, Loghain would still prefer Eamon dead as Eamon was urging Anora be put aside.  I think that was plan B.

And I still say he was a good general.  .  He did indeed deliberately sacrifice Cailan.  He underestimated the darkspawn but with reason, as it had been 400 years since the last blight and there was no sign of an archdemon at that point.  He underestimates the Warden, too, but before anyone claims a pattern, I would say that no one could have anticipated the heroic potential of us!

p.s.  Yes, the look on Loghain's face as he "agrees" to the battle plan - twirling of mustache indeed!

Modifié par DWSmiley, 09 avril 2010 - 04:29 .

[sylvanaerie]

DWSmiley wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...
He was a good general but terrible ruler.  As the game progresses, there are several comments one can overhear about him winning yet another battle against a Bann.  We don't learn exactly what he wanted to do at Ostagar - possibly wait for Eamon's reinforcements. 

Wait for Eamon???  You mean Eamon whom he had had poisoned?

He was not a good general.  He was a superb strategist, however, and had he carried out the strategy he himself had laid out for victory in Ostagar, I think he would have won.  When he saw the beacon, however, he decided to pursue his other strategy.  He would probably have gotten away with that one but for Flemeth and the PC.

Yea you could practically see the mustache twirling at the war council. I looked into Loghain's face and thought to myself "Well this can only end in tears..."

And I still say he was a lousy general unless killing Cailan and letting the darkspawn overwhelm the country while he fought for the throne was Loghain's Plan B.  In that instance I guess since he got what he wanted that would mean he wasn't as much of a bad general as I thought.  Can't say it did much for Ferelden though...

Hmm, I hadn't thought about it but the timing of the poisoning is crucial to figuring out what was plan A vs. plan B.  Passage of time isn't always clear (for instance, how long does it take to walk to Lothering afterward, dodging darkspawn along the way?) but it does seem Jowan was already on his mission at the time of the battle.  Loghain must have realized it was unlikely he could talk Cailan into a prudent course of action and if he removes Cailan he needs to remove Eamon, too.  That seems to be plan A.  And if Cailan had surprised and foregone battle, Loghain would still prefer Eamon dead as Eamon was urging Anora be put aside.  I think that was plan B.

And I still say he was a good general.  .  He did indeed deliberately sacrifice Cailan.  He underestimated the darkspawn but with reason, as it had been 400 years since the last blight and there was no sign of an archdemon at that point.  He underestimates the Warden, too, but before anyone claims a pattern, I would say that no one could have anticipated the heroic potential of us!

Except for Duncan. He chose pretty damn well in the PC's case, but then Duncan has the power o' the beard on his side which trumps all other powers in game! 
OH and to get the thread back on track...Duncan chooses the PC on the merits of skill vs gender and since his instincts were right...Anyone else care to argue with the beard that Duncan was in error?

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 04:41 .

[Addai]

DWSmiley wrote...
Hmm, I hadn't thought about it but the timing of the poisoning is crucial to figuring out what was plan A vs. plan B.  Passage of time isn't always clear (for instance, how long does it take to walk to Lothering afterward, dodging darkspawn along the way?) but it does seem Jowan was already on his mission at the time of the battle. 

By "plan B," I mean removing Cailan.

The timing of the poisoning is problematic.  It doesn't seem like there is enough time for Jowan to escape at the same time that the PC is recruited by Duncan, and yet by the time you get to Lothering, the knights have already been sent out for the Urn.  Especially because Jowan says that he was personally recruited by Loghain in Denerim.  If Jowan had been caught near Ostagar it would make more sense.

Modifié par Addai67, 09 avril 2010 - 04:44 .

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...
Hmm, I hadn't thought about it but the timing of the poisoning is crucial to figuring out what was plan A vs. plan B.  Passage of time isn't always clear (for instance, how long does it take to walk to Lothering afterward, dodging darkspawn along the way?) but it does seem Jowan was already on his mission at the time of the battle. 

By "plan B," I mean removing Cailan.

The timing of the poisoning is problematic.  It doesn't seem like there is enough time for Jowan to escape at the same time that the PC is recruited by Duncan, and yet by the time you get to Lothering, the knights have already been sent out for the Urn.  Especially because Jowan says that he was personally recruited by Loghain in Denerim.  If Jowan had been caught near Ostagar it would make more sense.

 
Well Irminrick does say he caught Jowan in Redcliffe (they were spread out trying to capture him and Irminrick was alone).  But I think Jowan tells you Loghain spoke to him in Denerim ( I could be wrong) and Jowan says it WAS Loghain for certain because he recognized him from portraits. Time seems definitely skewed but the knight in Lothering you speak to (Ser Donall) will tell you the arl fell ill prior to the events in Ostagar.

[Sarah1281]

But my noble wardens are "whatever it takes to end the Blight" + "best military commander available" + "maybe he dies in the Joining anyway" = spare him and keep him on a tight leash.

Mine too. I have to wonder, though: if Loghain had died in the Joining, thus proving that he wasn't 'worthy' of being a GW what would Alistair have done, assuming that he was engaged to Anora and thus still at the Arl's estate? Would he still let his anger at the PC trying to make him a Warden stop him from helping against the Blight or would he return to help since he wouldn't have to fight with Loghain afte all?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 09 avril 2010 - 05:40 .

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...
Well Irminrick does say he caught Jowan in Redcliffe (they were spread out trying to capture him and Irminrick was alone).  But I think Jowan tells you Loghain spoke to him in Denerim ( I could be wrong) and Jowan says it WAS Loghain for certain because he recognized him from portraits. Time seems definitely skewed but the knight in Lothering you speak to (Ser Donall) will tell you the arl fell ill prior to the events in Ostagar.

This can only be possible if the PC and Duncan lolly-gagged a great deal on the way to Ostagar.  Maybe Duncan makes a few female mage PC's dreams come true on the way or something. 

[sylvanaerie]

Addai67 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
Well Irminrick does say he caught Jowan in Redcliffe (they were spread out trying to capture him and Irminrick was alone).  But I think Jowan tells you Loghain spoke to him in Denerim ( I could be wrong) and Jowan says it WAS Loghain for certain because he recognized him from portraits. Time seems definitely skewed but the knight in Lothering you speak to (Ser Donall) will tell you the arl fell ill prior to the events in Ostagar.

This can only be possible if the PC and Duncan lolly-gagged a great deal on the way to Ostagar.  Maybe Duncan makes a few female mage PC's dreams come true on the way or something. 

OOOO I could go for that!  I was rather disappointed when he shot down my HNF when I flirted with him.  I liked to imagine he spent a few days 'comforting' Valora on the walk from Highever

[DWSmiley]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But my noble wardens are "whatever it takes to end the Blight" + "best military commander available" + "maybe he dies in the Joining anyway" = spare him and keep him on a tight leash.

Mine too. I have to wonder, though: if Loghain had died in the Joining, thus proving that he wasn't 'worthy' of being a GW what would Alistair have done, assuming that he was engaged to Anora and thus still at the Arl's estate? Would he still let his anger at the PC trying to make him a Warden stop him from helping against the Blight or would he return to help since he wouldn't have to fight with Loghai afte all?

I think he leaves the group but still fights the Blight.  He is seriously pissed at the decision, as my HNF sadly discovered.  He no longer hated her when it was all over but the relationship was dead, dead, dead.

[DWSmiley]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
Well Irminrick does say he caught Jowan in Redcliffe (they were spread out trying to capture him and Irminrick was alone).  But I think Jowan tells you Loghain spoke to him in Denerim ( I could be wrong) and Jowan says it WAS Loghain for certain because he recognized him from portraits. Time seems definitely skewed but the knight in Lothering you speak to (Ser Donall) will tell you the arl fell ill prior to the events in Ostagar.

This can only be possible if the PC and Duncan lolly-gagged a great deal on the way to Ostagar.  Maybe Duncan makes a few female mage PC's dreams come true on the way or something. 

OOOO I could go for that!  I was rather disappointed when he shot down my HNF when I flirted with him.  I liked to imagine he spent a few days 'comforting' Valora on the walk from Highever

Yes, not just mage PC's!  I've played so many times now that I've begun to forget how shocked I was at Duncan's death the first time.  I was so sure he would be my mentor throughout, though mostly busy with leader-type stuff while I was becoming the hero.  For quite a while I hoped he was only severely wounded and would reappear at some point.  Sigh.