573 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyDamodred]

Ah, yeah, that's true. I never had a DE that did that. Even so, the end results seem more tragic.

[Axekix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I think of all the origins, he feels worst about the HN and the DE. I'm sure others will feel differently, but to me in those cases, your char really is a victim. You've done nothing wrong, and had everything taken from you. The mage origin is a bit like that, but depends on how you played it.

What?  HN sure, but DE?  IMO the DE and mage origins are the weakest dramatically.  CE and especially HN have it way worse. 

Actually I think the DE origin is my least favorite period.  Tamlen is annoying and I wish I could've just ditched him.  Mage at least has an interesting story, and Alistair's long lost brother, Jowan!

[Sarah1281]

Alistair's long lost brother, Jowan!

Don't even say that! If that's the case he could show up in the future!

[Emerald Melios]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Had to satisfy my ire with a lame "I"m no freind of yours, human lord." response to Cailan's greeting.

What does he say? My CE wanted to get on his good side so he'd deal with the Alienage, my DN would never dream of being openly rude to royalty, and my DC thought he might kill her if she was (certainly she had to worry that people much further down the ladder than the Aeducans might kill her for a slight in Orzammar). My HN, of course, didn't have that option and wanted him to deal with Howe.

He kind of chuckles and says "You have a lively one here, Duncan. And I thought all wardens were stodgy priests!" 

The PC was just monumentally rude to him but it just washes over him like water over a duck's back.  I get the feeling Cailan was the human face to Anora's governance like Alistair is to hers when they are ruling together. 

His reaction when you tell him what you did to Bann Vaughan though was excellent......

[sylvanaerie]

Emerald Melios wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Had to satisfy my ire with a lame "I"m no freind of yours, human lord." response to Cailan's greeting.

What does he say? My CE wanted to get on his good side so he'd deal with the Alienage, my DN would never dream of being openly rude to royalty, and my DC thought he might kill her if she was (certainly she had to worry that people much further down the ladder than the Aeducans might kill her for a slight in Orzammar). My HN, of course, didn't have that option and wanted him to deal with Howe.

He kind of chuckles and says "You have a lively one here, Duncan. And I thought all wardens were stodgy priests!" 

The PC was just monumentally rude to him but it just washes over him like water over a duck's back.  I get the feeling Cailan was the human face to Anora's governance like Alistair is to hers when they are ruling together. 

His reaction when you tell him what you did to Bann Vaughan though was excellent......

That was funny too sort of a WTF moment for him and Duncan is scrambling with something like "I wouldn't have put it so bluntly..." makes me giggle.  CEF Origin is my second favorite.

I still like this one better though.  He turns on the charm after talking to the PC Dalish and its quite obvious he admires their skills (Male or female) with fighting.  I get the feeling Cailan was quite the charmer when he wants to be.  By the end of that conversation I want to say "Thank you, your Majesty" even if its out of character

[Herr Uhl]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I still like this one better though.  He turns on the charm after talking to the PC Dalish and its quite obvious he admires their skills (Male or female) with fighting.  I get the feeling Cailan was quite the charmer when he wants to be.  By the end of that conversation I want to say "Thank you, your Majesty" even if its out of character

He learned the fine art of seducing elves from his old pa.

[sylvanaerie]

Herr Uhl wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I still like this one better though.  He turns on the charm after talking to the PC Dalish and its quite obvious he admires their skills (Male or female) with fighting.  I get the feeling Cailan was quite the charmer when he wants to be.  By the end of that conversation I want to say "Thank you, your Majesty" even if its out of character

He learned the fine art of seducing elves from his old pa.

Hmmm maybe its not fightin' skills he's looking for...  Cailan reminds me too much of a puppy though for me to think of him as sexy.  Give me a guy like Bann Teagan vs Cailan any day!

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I think of all the origins, he feels worst about the HN and the DE. I'm sure others will feel differently, but to me in those cases, your char really is a victim. You've done nothing wrong, and had everything taken from you. The mage origin is a bit like that, but depends on how you played it.

What?  HN sure, but DE?  IMO the DE and mage origins are the weakest dramatically.  CE and especially HN have it way worse. 

Actually I think the DE origin is my least favorite period.  Tamlen is annoying and I wish I could've just ditched him.  Mage at least has an interesting story, and Alistair's long lost brother, Jowan!

I say most tragic in that they are ripped away from everything they know and love.  My Dalish were devastated.  Not only do they lose everything, their clan has lost them forever.  *shrugs*  Just my take on it.

[Axekix]

Maybe it's just me. I do have a hard time RPing a Dalish, cause they're sooo annoying to me when I'm playing a human...

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Axekix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I think of all the origins, he feels worst about the HN and the DE. I'm sure others will feel differently, but to me in those cases, your char really is a victim. You've done nothing wrong, and had everything taken from you. The mage origin is a bit like that, but depends on how you played it.

What?  HN sure, but DE?  IMO the DE and mage origins are the weakest dramatically.  CE and especially HN have it way worse. 

Actually I think the DE origin is my least favorite period.  Tamlen is annoying and I wish I could've just ditched him.  Mage at least has an interesting story, and Alistair's long lost brother, Jowan!

I say most tragic in that they are ripped away from everything they know and love.  My Dalish were devastated.  Not only do they lose everything, their clan has lost them forever.  *shrugs*  Just my take on it.

And when the keeper backs Duncan up on the conscription and gives you the ring Duncan says "A valuable gift" I wanted to just scratch his eyes out.  Dumb ass comment considering I am being booted out of the clan.  Just give me the damn cure you jerk!!!

[Sarah1281]

I say most tragic in that they are ripped away from everything they know and love. My Dalish were devastated. Not only do they lose everything, their clan has lost them forever.

EVERY origin loses everything they know and love with little chance of getting it back. The DE, at least, isn't a wanted 'criminal', suddenly orphaned, or thrown to darkspawn. In fact, the minute that Blight is over they can go looking for their old clan. As they are Dalish themselves, it should be easier than it is for most. Really, I'd say the DE is the least tragic as far as never getting their lives back.

[Axekix]

^YES! Some back up! *high fives*

[LadyDamodred]

I guess it's just in how we look at it and RP it. It seems so much more final for my DE. And in the way they are orphaned, since the clan was their family. I clearly can't explain any better at the moment. *blames her headache* Just differences with us as the players, I guess.

[sylvanaerie]

I would say it would have to depend on how you RP it. The Dalish seemed to be very clannish and close (Almost as much as the human noble family if not more so) and I played it that my PC was very much an innocent thrust from the only world she had ever known, that comfort and love (that scene where you say goodbye and walk away from the clan always moves me) wrenched away. She blamed Duncan for her situation and wondered why he couldn't just give her the cure there and let her go on with her life. It isn't till much later that she realizes how much rests on her young shoulders. And I played her as very young too, not much more than a teenager in human terms (I think the Dalish live longer than city elves).

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I say most tragic in that they are ripped away from everything they know and love. My Dalish were devastated. Not only do they lose everything, their clan has lost them forever.

EVERY origin loses everything they know and love with little chance of getting it back. The DE, at least, isn't a wanted 'criminal', suddenly orphaned, or thrown to darkspawn. In fact, the minute that Blight is over they can go looking for their old clan. As they are Dalish themselves, it should be easier than it is for most. Really, I'd say the DE is the least tragic as far as never getting their lives back.

Well, the DC ends up as a positive (except for Leske that is) for all parties involved.

[LadyDamodred]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I would say it would have to depend on how you RP it. The Dalish seemed to be very clannish and close (Almost as much as the human noble family if not more so) and I played it that my PC was very much an innocent thrust from the only world she had ever known, that comfort and love (that scene where you say goodbye and walk away from the clan always moves me) wrenched away. She blamed Duncan for her situation and wondered why he couldn't just give her the cure there and let her go on with her life. It isn't till much later that she realizes how much rests on her young shoulders. And I played her as very young too, not much more than a teenager in human terms (I think the Dalish live longer than city elves).

Yes.  This was also my only char who actually got incredibly pissed at Duncan later on.  When Shriek Tamlen shows up, had Duncan been there, she would have freaked out on him.  I almost wish there were an option to do it on Alistair in place of Duncan, as he was the only one she could vent her grief on.  Her wroth was great that night.

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I would say it would have to depend on how you RP it. The Dalish seemed to be very clannish and close (Almost as much as the human noble family if not more so) and I played it that my PC was very much an innocent thrust from the only world she had ever known, that comfort and love (that scene where you say goodbye and walk away from the clan always moves me) wrenched away. She blamed Duncan for her situation and wondered why he couldn't just give her the cure there and let her go on with her life. It isn't till much later that she realizes how much rests on her young shoulders. And I played her as very young too, not much more than a teenager in human terms (I think the Dalish live longer than city elves).

Yes.  This was also my only char who actually got incredibly pissed at Duncan later on.  When Shriek Tamlen shows up, had Duncan been there, she would have freaked out on him.  I almost wish there were an option to do it on Alistair in place of Duncan, as he was the only one she could vent her grief on.  Her wroth was great that night.

OMG first time I played that I just sat there after it was all done and cried.  I had gotten that immersed in the game.  I had to save and close it out for a while and go outside a bit.  Shriek Tamlen really got to me like only Bryce in the Gauntlet had been previously able to.  Added to the angst that I had unlocked the semi-romance with him and he says "Always loved you..." to my lil Dalish.  Only Alistair made any attempt to comfort the PC with everyone else saying their little cutesy comments (which are standard after that attack I know but it was very jarring to hear after that scene).

[LadyDamodred]

Out of curiosity, how do you unlock the semi-romance? Never had a DE do it, just never felt quite right about it.

[SurelyForth]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I say most tragic in that they are ripped away from everything they know and love. My Dalish were devastated. Not only do they lose everything, their clan has lost them forever.

EVERY origin loses everything they know and love with little chance of getting it back. The DE, at least, isn't a wanted 'criminal', suddenly orphaned, or thrown to darkspawn. In fact, the minute that Blight is over they can go looking for their old clan. As they are Dalish themselves, it should be easier than it is for most. Really, I'd say the DE is the least tragic as far as never getting their lives back.

This. I just can't feel the pain with a DE. It doesn't help that the Dalish strike me as being so dour that I can't wait to be away from them. If I want to play an elf, I have to go CEF. She has the prejudice against her, a man who died for her who wasn't a douche, and a ton of grief waiting for her when she returns home. 

[Sarah1281]

I guess it's just in how we look at it and RP it. It seems so much more final for my DE. And in the way they are orphaned, since the clan was their family. I clearly can't explain any better at the moment.

I get that. It's just that they have to leave so they can get the 'cure' (which appears to just be becoming a GW) and since there is a Blight they have to deal with that. Once that's over with, though, if they survive then they should be able to return, even if they do have some GW duties to do occasionally.



I'm not sure why anyone would WANT to stay in the Circle Tower, but any mages who would don't have much of an option to stay there given Jowan and/or Irving but there is hope that eventually they could go back, especially after saving the Circle.



Really, the biggest losses would be both nobles, followed by the CE and then the DC. The HN, of course, just had their entire family murdered excpet maybe for Fergus who she spends all game wondering what happened to and lost her teynir to Howe, who wants her dead and is rewarded for her treachery. HN does have a brief hope that Howe will come to justice at Ostagar but after Cailan died there was no word about getting Highever back until right before the Landsmeet when the other nobles are outraged.



DN had their own father throw them to the darkspawn in order to avoid a scandal after their older brother died and their younger brother betrayed them. Their entire kingdom hates them while they probably loved it (as beloved third-in-line for the throne who had things like Dust Town and pushy merchants kept away from them all of their life how could they not?) and upon their return they aren't treated very well by anyone except the Harrowmonts and their father is dead so no chane of reconcilliation. There's no hope of being reinstated until either Bhelen becomes King and he reinstats them after his coronation or if Harrowmont's King they don't hear anything about coming back - and to a House that now hates them and was quite happy pretending they didn't exist - until post-coronation.



CE has to leave Denerim because otherwise there will be reprisals for Vaughan's death and the bit of hope that Cailan doesn't know about the Alienage and will try to fix things dies at Ostagar. Since Anora is ruling and if Cailan didn't know then Anora must means things can't be exected to change and the minute they arrive in Denerim until after Anora is rescued they can't get into the Alienage and they hear tales of the purge and subsequent riots - that their actions inadvertantly caused - and have no idea if their family is even alive or dead. Then when they finally do get back, slavers have taken up residence there and their father has fallen prey to them.



DC has to leave otherwise they will be kille for embarrassing the nobles, losing the carta money, and/or killing Beraht. They are allowed to be conscripted with the understanding that they will leave Orzammar (which they hate) but now Rica's left on her own with their abusive mother. Even though Rica thinks she might have a generous patron, she's not certain enough to tell them who it is and Beraht was looking on taking his anger for their transgression out on her so who is to say that the people Duncn saved them from (particulary the carta) won't do the same? And even if Rica remains untouched, she's still trapped in Dust Town. And who even knows what would happen to the still-punishable Leske who was right there for the Proving and the carta-slaughtering. Since Orzammar is canonically about a year after Ostagar to give Rica time to realize she's pregnant and to have Endrin and the King to waste away from guilt and grief, that's also a very long time of not knowing.



Compared to those, having the clan move on and being unable to rejoin it until the Blight is over just doesn't really hold the same feeling of loss for me as either dwarf, the human noble, or the other elf did.

[Sarah1281]

Well, the DC ends up as a positive (except for Leske that is) for all parties involved.

They hardly knew that at the time, did they? In fact, they had to worry for an entire freaking year.

[Merilsell]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I would say it would have to depend on how you RP it. The Dalish seemed to be very clannish and close (Almost as much as the human noble family if not more so) and I played it that my PC was very much an innocent thrust from the only world she had ever known, that comfort and love (that scene where you say goodbye and walk away from the clan always moves me) wrenched away. She blamed Duncan for her situation and wondered why he couldn't just give her the cure there and let her go on with her life. It isn't till much later that she realizes how much rests on her young shoulders. And I played her as very young too, not much more than a teenager in human terms (I think the Dalish live longer than city elves).

Exactly. As for me I*m a sucker for the Dalish Elf - origin, but more so what comes afterwards. She is ripped off from the only world she knows and thrown into one she does not know, nor want to. Everything important has been ripped away from her and in order to survive, she has to cooporate with a human, for creator's sake. And she frikkin hates humans. I think it depends on how creative your mind is in RP the DE. I for myself see a lot potential in this "culture mistrust/misunderstanding/ being forced together and have to deal with it" --  thing Alistair and she surely would have. Therefore my FanFiction about it Dalish elves needs moar looove ^^

The only one of my PCs who despised Duncan was my Dalish because she
felt abandoned by her clan and that he could have just given her the
damn cure instead of dragging her down to Ostagar "Kicking and
screaming"

Aww, that's sounds just like my Lenya.

"Filthy shem, don't you dare to touch me *glares* Right of conscription? Screw that! Your shem rules mean nothing to me *glares more*

Ahh, I lurve her

Modifié par Merilsell, 10 avril 2010 - 03:30 .

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Out of curiosity, how do you unlock the semi-romance? Never had a DE do it, just never felt quite right about it.

You talk to him after you enter the ruins and he asks you what you were doing in the woods instead of helping Master Varathorn (Yes I know its a typo in the game since Varathorn is the craftsman in the Dalish clan you find in the woods).  And you can respond with something like 'I wanted to be with you instead' and he says "I thought so.  We can talk more about it when we are out of here".  That's pretty much all it is but certain NPCs (like the older elf woman who sort of mothers your PC) will bring it up that they always hoped the PC and Tamlen would one day join.  I think the Hahren and the Halla tender also bring up your closeness to him.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, the DC ends up as a positive (except for Leske that is) for all parties involved.

They hardly knew that at the time, did they? In fact, they had to worry for an entire freaking year.

Neither did the elves. And it's not yet known if the DE will find his/her clan. Being conscripted as a casteless is something that is a great honor, as Rica says, you would be seen as equal to the nobles.

The crux of that origin is fear of heights (sky, depending on if you RP one that is) and worrying about Rica, but Rica saying that she had a big one on the hook reassured me enough, she's a big girl. Though I roll DC's that are fiercely protective of her, you being left would likely just make things worse (even without the death penalty). It's more that you had a crappy hand to begin with, and it became slightly better throughout the origin.

[Sarah1281]

DC was actually third-to-least tragic for me (after Mage and DE). I don't think it's plausible that they will NEVER find their clan again. If nothing else, they can find a local clan (which they do in the course of collecting the treaties) and the clans do have vague ways of finding each other. It may take awhile, but it's perfectly doable.