573 réponses à ce sujet

[Nhadalie]

There are several good reasons to recruit Sten.



1) He is a skilled warrior, and you are sorely in need of skilled help.



2) The PC might see what was done to Sten as being abhorrent. Particularly mage PCs, or elven PCs. Because they tend to value freedom more highly than most other origins.



3) Like everyone has said time and time again. While Sten is intimidating, it can be assumed that our PCs have underwent at least a year of training. Therefore they know how to use their skills to their advantage. A quick, smart opponent can overcome the strongest of men if they know what they're doing. And the only way a mage PC would be in danger from Sten would be if he snuck up on them in the middle of the night.

[LadyDamodred]

Nhadalie wrote...

2) The PC might see what was done to Sten as being abhorrent. Particularly mage PCs, or elven PCs. Because they tend to value freedom more highly than most other origins.

Yes.  My PCs are cool with Sten just being executed, but being left to starve to death or be bait for the darkspawn?  Uh-uh.  She takes him for that reason.  She figures they're all going to die anyway, might as well get some use out of him if nothing else.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Addai67 wrote...

Give me a break. Fighting is not only about bulk and strength. In the time it takes a 2H warrior to wind up for a swing, you could have a dagger stuck in his ribs and the fight is over. If you guys think women are this wimpy, it's no wonder you have trouble playing a female Warden.

In terms of this game, yeah I would agree with you because the creators seem to put the whole women's liberation thing in the player's face. In terms of real life, h*ll no. Men actually have a larger threshold for pain than women do. If a 120lb woman stabs Sten in the stomache with a dagger, he would easily overpower the woman for being so close. I just can't see a woman actually doing the whole Origins quest in real life, but its just a game.

[Nhadalie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Well, I wouldn't call Lya...perky.  She did want to sign up, though.  She very much wanted to prove herself outside of just her family name.  Not to say she doesn't like being a Cousland.  She's increbily proud of her heritage.  She just chafes a bit under the restictions that come with it.  She wants to get out there and so stuff.  And for me, warrior seems more fitting for the two noble lines, humand and dwarf.  I had truble with my HNF rogue.  *shrugs* Dunno why.

Agreed.  There really should have been some sort of option to discuss it.  Ah well, I guess that's what our overactive, fangirly imaginations are for.

By perky I meant the "Me! Me! Pick me!" sort of reaction you mentioned up there.

Kendra isn't a very good person. She's very manipulative at times. The way I look at it, she wanted to do her own thing and make her mother happy at the same time. She's very much the manipulative noble woman on one hand, and a more warrior esque rogue on the other hand. Rogue just happens to suit her character best. But then, I made her character purposefully to fit into the storyline like that, and for her to take the bard specialization.

I tend to always make rogues though, and find some way for the character to be a rogue. Even my Dwarven noble is a rogue. But she's rather similar to Kendra character wise, just.. Not so actively malicious or manipulative. Adalyn tends to stay uninvolved whenever she feels it's best. She's more pragmatic than Kendra.

Overactive fangirly imaginations are the best though.

[sylvanaerie]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Give me a break. Fighting is not only about bulk and strength. In the time it takes a 2H warrior to wind up for a swing, you could have a dagger stuck in his ribs and the fight is over. If you guys think women are this wimpy, it's no wonder you have trouble playing a female Warden.

In terms of this game, yeah I would agree with you because the creators seem to put the whole women's liberation thing in the player's face. In terms of real life, h*ll no. Men actually have a larger threshold for pain than women do. If a 120lb woman stabs Sten in the stomache with a dagger, he would easily overpower the woman for being so close. I just can't see a woman actually doing the whole Origins quest in real life, but its just a game.

I beg to differ on that tolerance for pain thing.  Such a thing is of course entirely subjective but women put up with a lot in their lives, not to mention the pain of childbirth.  I think OP is just too into a modern male mindset to accept being a woman in an RPG.  This is not a failing, it simply is who he is and thats okay too.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 26 mars 2010 - 05:05 .

[Nhadalie]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Give me a break. Fighting is not only about bulk and strength. In the time it takes a 2H warrior to wind up for a swing, you could have a dagger stuck in his ribs and the fight is over. If you guys think women are this wimpy, it's no wonder you have trouble playing a female Warden.

In terms of this game, yeah I would agree with you because the creators seem to put the whole women's liberation thing in the player's face. In terms of real life, h*ll no. Men actually have a larger threshold for pain than women do. If a 120lb woman stabs Sten in the stomache with a dagger, he would easily overpower the woman for being so close. I just can't see a woman actually doing the whole Origins quest in real life, but its just a game.

Do you reeeeeally want to get into the pain threshold discussion?

Because all I have to say to that is two words. Child birth. The human species would die out if men had to give birth.

Damnit, Sylvanaerie beat me to it. ..Hey, she has my nickname in her name. I just noticed.

Modifié par Nhadalie, 26 mars 2010 - 05:05 .

[sylvanaerie]

LOL I do?

[Nhadalie]

sylvanaerie wrote...

LOL I do?

Yes. My irl nickname is Aerie.


Er.. I just dragged us all off topic. Oops.

[LadyDamodred]

Nhadalie wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Well, I wouldn't call Lya...perky.  She did want to sign up, though.  She very much wanted to prove herself outside of just her family name.  Not to say she doesn't like being a Cousland.  She's increbily proud of her heritage.  She just chafes a bit under the restictions that come with it.  She wants to get out there and so stuff.  And for me, warrior seems more fitting for the two noble lines, humand and dwarf.  I had truble with my HNF rogue.  *shrugs* Dunno why.

Agreed.  There really should have been some sort of option to discuss it.  Ah well, I guess that's what our overactive, fangirly imaginations are for.

By perky I meant the "Me! Me! Pick me!" sort of reaction you mentioned up there.

Kendra isn't a very good person. She's very manipulative at times. The way I look at it, she wanted to do her own thing and make her mother happy at the same time. She's very much the manipulative noble woman on one hand, and a more warrior esque rogue on the other hand. Rogue just happens to suit her character best. But then, I made her character purposefully to fit into the storyline like that, and for her to take the bard specialization.

I tend to always make rogues though, and find some way for the character to be a rogue. Even my Dwarven noble is a rogue. But she's rather similar to Kendra character wise, just.. Not so actively malicious or manipulative. Adalyn tends to stay uninvolved whenever she feels it's best. She's more pragmatic than Kendra.

Overactive fangirly imaginations are the best though.

Oh my, Lya is...calculating, let's say.  She is thoroughly political and does she ever lie to Anora about supporting her bid for the throne.  XD  I don't see that as her not being a good person though.  She does what she has to with the tools she has at her disposal.  It's one of the reasons she does the more questionable side quests.  For the big decisions, she does the *right* thing, ie saving Eamon's family, the mages, etc... but she also understands about the seamier side of things.

[Axekix]

sylvanaerie wrote...
I think OP is just too into a modern male mindset to accept being a woman in an RPG.

Hmm?  What does that mean exactly?

[Godak]

Nhadalie wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

LOL I do?

Yes. My irl nickname is Aerie.


Er.. I just dragged us all off topic. Oops.

The nerve!

[Addai]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...
 I just can't see a woman actually doing the whole Origins quest in real life, but its just a game.

But the average North American male couch potato- the kind who is most likely playing this game- could?

LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[sylvanaerie]

Also women are taught from a young age not to complain if they are in pain (Or at least my generation was) which is why a lot more female heart attacks are fatal than men (Statistically speaking). Men tend to get such things looked at sooner than a woman would. Plus dammit I'm a mom, I could have a 102 degree fever but I would still be expected to run my household chores, get the kids off to school/work, run errands for hubby and do everything I would do if I was well and still have a freaking smile on my face doing it.

[Sarah1281]

If you don't think your character could handle Sten at the beginning of the game (and you don't even have to recruit him) then they might as well give up now and move to Orlais because there's no way they can possibly go from 'can't take a guy who is bigger than them' to 'kills the Archdemon' in just a year.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Nhadalie wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Give me a break. Fighting is not only about bulk and strength. In the time it takes a 2H warrior to wind up for a swing, you could have a dagger stuck in his ribs and the fight is over. If you guys think women are this wimpy, it's no wonder you have trouble playing a female Warden.

In terms of this game, yeah I would agree with you because the creators seem to put the whole women's liberation thing in the player's face. In terms of real life, h*ll no. Men actually have a larger threshold for pain than women do. If a 120lb woman stabs Sten in the stomache with a dagger, he would easily overpower the woman for being so close. I just can't see a woman actually doing the whole Origins quest in real life, but its just a game.

Do you reeeeeally want to get into the pain threshold discussion?

Because all I have to say to that is two words. Child birth. The human species would die out if men had to give birth.

Damnit, Sylvanaerie beat me to it. ..Hey, she has my nickname in her name. I just noticed.

Well, of course men cannot give birth, but women are actually biologically set to tolerate the pain from childbirth. If you didn't have those endorphins kicking in, I would say that the majority of women would die in childbirth from the pain. I am not just bringing out crap from my a**, I have read research in my sociology class that states that men generally handle pain better than women. Everything equal, if I were to stab a woman in the stomache she would handle the pain worse than a male would. Like it or not, men and woman are different. Here is some news I found on the net to cite myself. http://www.independe...men-726389.html. I wish I still had the handout my teacher gave us in our sociology class though...

[errant_knight]

I don't actually think that women feel less pain than men, I just think they accept as...hmmm...a frequent and common occurance that one ignores. But this is getting off topic. I'm fairly sure that Sten could kill each and every one of us in daily life. With one hand tied behing his back.

Perhaps we could return to the topic of playing a female character.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 mars 2010 - 05:19 .

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
I think OP is just too into a modern male mindset to accept being a woman in an RPG.

Hmm?  What does that mean exactly?

Your earlier quotes about Alistair's lack of self confidence being unattractive and how you weren't raised that way.  Plus you don't seem to think a female PC can handle herself as well on the field (Despite having killed an ogre and dealing with darkspawn already) as Sten.  I could be wrong but its just the impression I am getting that you feel women are too wimpy to handle the rigors of being a warrior/warden.  This is not a failing in your mindset I feel just that it will preclude you from ever relating to a femwarden.

All I am trying to point out is females are as capable as males in dealing with the Blight in Thedas.  If you feel they aren't then you are defeated before you ever began.

[Nhadalie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Oh my, Lya is...calculating, let's say.  She is thoroughly political and does she ever lie to Anora about supporting her bid for the throne.  XD  I don't see that as her not being a good person though.  She does what she has to with the tools she has at her disposal.  It's one of the reasons she does the more questionable side quests.  For the big decisions, she does the *right* thing, ie saving Eamon's family, the mages, etc... but she also understands about the seamier side of things.

I wouldn't say that Kendra is necessarily a bad person. On the contrary. She's very much disgusted by the other nobles as a whole. Which is why she doesn't feel guilty about manipulating them. She takes a very aggressive defensive type stance in the beginning. She also lies her ass off to Anora too.


Alistair is the first guy she meets who doesn't actually want something from her, or to use her in some way. That's why she ends up romancing him. Because he's so genuine, and she honestly can't believe it at first.

Godak wrote...
The nerve! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

I know. I am a terrible person, and it makes me sad. May I cry into your chest?

I'd say bosom, but you don't have one. Slight alterations!

sylvanaerie wrote...

Also women are taught from a young
age not to complain if they are in pain (Or at least my generation was)
which is why a lot more female heart attacks are fatal than men
(Statistically speaking). Men tend to get such things looked at sooner
than a woman would. Plus dammit I'm a mom, I could have a 102 degree
fever but I would still be expected to run my household chores, get the
kids off to school/work, run errands for hubby and do everything I
would do if I was well and still have a freaking smile on my face doing
it.

You sound just like my mom. Let me say this at least. I admire people like you a hell of a lot. You do so very much for your families, and never seem to get any recognition for it at all. Much less appreciation.

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you don't think your character could handle Sten at the beginning of the game (and you don't even have to recruit him) then they might as well give up now and move to Orlais because there's no way they can possibly go from 'can't take a guy who is bigger than them' to 'kills the Archdemon' in just a year.

Sure you could, it's not as if you kill the Archdemon solo (talking story here, not mechanics).  Plus in that time you train, gain experience,"master your taint"... or whatever and acquire legendary weapons/armor.

In lothering however, you're in little better than rags, sporting generic weapons and have 2 major battles worth of experience under your belt.  Compare that to Sten, who's seen quite a bit in his lifetime.  Really what puts the PC above Sten at that point in martial prowess? 

At least the male PC comes into the game as an already renowned warrior, the female PC doesn't get the same backstory.

[Nhadalie]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...


Well, of course men cannot give birth, but women are actually biologically set to tolerate the pain from childbirth. If you didn't have those endorphins kicking in, I would say that the majority of women would die in childbirth from the pain. I am not just bringing out crap from my a**, I have read research in my sociology class that states that men generally handle pain better than women. Everything equal, if I were to stab a woman in the stomache she would handle the pain worse than a male would. Like it or not, men and woman are different. Here is some news I found on the net to cite myself. http://www.independe...men-726389.html. I wish I still had the handout my teacher gave us in our sociology class though...

The problem with this is that it's a sociological study. Meaning it's a set study of a certain group of people. Sociology is not infalliable. And there is no way that it's true for everyone. It's a generalization, not necessarily true. And yes, I can say this because I've studied sociology as well. Which means that you should realize it too.

You can have weak men and women. Likewise, you can have strong men and women. Everyone is different. It is impossible to claim something like that as fact.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

At least the male PC comes into the game as an already renowned warrior, the female PC doesn't get the same backstory.

??  All of my PCs have been renowned for their martial prowess.  Duncan is there specifically to recruit you in the HN and CE origins, for instance.  Who cares about some ridiculous tourney?

Face it, your male PC is a punk who by all rights should have died a few times over by the time you get to Lothering.  It's no different for a female PC.  If you've already beaten down a few gaggle of darkspawn and an ogre, you're going to be scared of a half-starved Qunari who doesn't even have a weapon until you give him one?  If you are that scared, you'd better run along to Orlais and leave the Blight-fighting to someone else.

[LadyDamodred]

Axekix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you don't think your character could handle Sten at the beginning of the game (and you don't even have to recruit him) then they might as well give up now and move to Orlais because there's no way they can possibly go from 'can't take a guy who is bigger than them' to 'kills the Archdemon' in just a year.

Sure you could, it's not as if you kill the Archdemon solo (talking story here, not mechanics).  Plus in that time you train, gain experience,"master your taint"... or whatever and acquire legendary weapons/armor.

In lothering however, you're in little better than rags, sporting generic weapons and have 2 major battles worth of experience under your belt.  Compare that to Sten, who's seen quite a bit in his lifetime.  Really what puts the PC above Sten at that point in martial prowess? 

At least the male PC comes into the game as an already renowned warrior, the female PC doesn't get the same backstory.

Well, remember that in at least the noble origins, you are expected to be able to marshal and lead troops.  The DNF is required to lead troops into the deep roads and the HNF is expected to be able to run a castle AND command troops.  Whatever flaws your PCs might have, you have been properly trained and your parents acknowledge this.

Also, tourneys are not always the best judge.  Look at the examples we have in game of characters who have competed.  Alistair, who lost his tourney and Jory who won his.  *whistles*

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 26 mars 2010 - 05:28 .

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you don't think your character could handle Sten at the beginning of the game (and you don't even have to recruit him) then they might as well give up now and move to Orlais because there's no way they can possibly go from 'can't take a guy who is bigger than them' to 'kills the Archdemon' in just a year.

Sure you could, it's not as if you kill the Archdemon solo (talking story here, not mechanics).  Plus in that time you train, gain experience,"master your taint"... or whatever and acquire legendary weapons/armor.

In lothering however, you're in little better than rags, sporting generic weapons and have 2 major battles worth of experience under your belt.  Compare that to Sten, who's seen quite a bit in his lifetime.  Really what puts the PC above Sten at that point in martial prowess? 

At least the male PC comes into the game as an already renowned warrior, the female PC doesn't get the same backstory.

 
And Sten has been in a cage for three weeks and he IS wearing rags and he is unarmed.  Plus your male PC hasn't seen anything more than a female in terms of battle prior to now, except the HN has been in a tournament.  There is no mention of the female having been in a tournament but that doesn't mean she hasn't proven herself.  Your father will acknowledge you are more than capable if you argue to go south with your brother just like your male counterpart but that doesn't mean your father is going to let you any more than he would a male younger Cousland.

And on the CE side, your male is no more trained or renowned in fighting than the female counterpart.  In that respect the Origins are the same.

LOL I just got ninjaed...two other posts over mine saying the same thing...

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 26 mars 2010 - 05:34 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Nhadalie wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...


Well, of course men cannot give birth, but women are actually biologically set to tolerate the pain from childbirth. If you didn't have those endorphins kicking in, I would say that the majority of women would die in childbirth from the pain. I am not just bringing out crap from my a**, I have read research in my sociology class that states that men generally handle pain better than women. Everything equal, if I were to stab a woman in the stomache she would handle the pain worse than a male would. Like it or not, men and woman are different. Here is some news I found on the net to cite myself. http://www.independe...men-726389.html. I wish I still had the handout my teacher gave us in our sociology class though...

The problem with this is that it's a sociological study. Meaning it's a set study of a certain group of people. Sociology is not infalliable. And there is no way that it's true for everyone. It's a generalization, not necessarily true. And yes, I can say this because I've studied sociology as well. Which means that you should realize it too.

You can have weak men and women. Likewise, you can have strong men and women. Everyone is different. It is impossible to claim something like that as fact.

Well, of course a lot of things we learned in sociology weren't entirely sociological by nature. My professor just likes to give use curve balls every now and then since we even had to read a book about finances and marriage (both were written on the individual nature, and not about society as a whole). If you really want to cite averages though, there are far less exceptions than there are averages. You have to remember that the bell shaped curve only gives a small amount of exceptions both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between. As I put it, all things equal, the male will tolerate pain better than the female. Alas though, lets agree to disagree because we are going off-topic, and the OP probably wants to reclaim his thread lol.

[Nhadalie]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...


Well, of course a lot of things we learned in sociology weren't entirely sociological by nature. My professor just likes to give use curve balls every now and then since we even had to read a book about finances and marriage (both were written on the individual nature, and not about society as a whole). If you really want to cite averages though, there are far less exceptions than there are averages. You have to remember that the bell shaped curve only gives a small amount of exceptions both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between. As I put it, all things equal, the male will tolerate pain better than the female. Alas though, lets agree to disagree because we are going off-topic, and the OP probably wants to reclaim his thread lol.

Most people tend to average out about the same place. Regardless of gender. Though honestly, it depends on what the sociological test was on.

Also, the link you gave seems to have more to do with how medicine works for different people than pain thresholds. Which is hardly surprising. We know that children are affected differently by different types of drugs. Why wouldn't the different genders be affected differently?

Another part of it is what you've experienced. Someone who has been trained as a warrior would have a higher pain threshold than say.. A nobleman or woman who has never touched a sword in their life. You pick up a lot of bruises and other various wounds learning to fight.

Also, women tend to be more flexible than men. Which makes us more suited to the agile sneaky rogue type fighting than anything else.

My point is.. Regardless of how strong, weak, fast, or slow your character is. If you know how to fight properly with your own abilities, you can figure out how to take down almost any opponent. It's more of a matter of tactics and strategy than raw brute force.