573 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

I like dirty fighting and below the belt myself...plus a nice application of poison...takes a lot of the fight out the enemy without my PC rogue working up a sweat.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...
Face it, your male PC is a punk who by all rights should have died a few times over by the time you get to Lothering.  It's no different for a female PC.  If you've already beaten down a few gaggle of darkspawn and an ogre, you're going to be scared of a half-starved Qunari who doesn't even have a weapon until you give him one?  If you are that scared, you'd better run along to Orlais and leave the Blight-fighting to someone else.

Scared?  I'd say it's being cautious/prudent more so than being scared, personally.  Can you honestly say you wouldn't have any reservations at all in recruiting him?

Having fought an Ogre, with 3 other teamates, isn't really the same thing as sleeping a few feet away from someone who has killed in cold blood.  Taking someone into your camp is a huge leap of faith considering how vulnerable that makes you.  His size and experience only make him that much more dangerous imo. 

Granted we know how it all goes down later, it just seems an odd decision to rationalize in Lothering to me, more so as a female.

Modifié par Axekix, 26 mars 2010 - 05:44 .

[Axekix]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...
Alas though, lets agree to disagree because we are going off-topic, and the OP probably wants to reclaim his thread lol.

Haha don't stop on my account, I actually found that pretty interesting

[sylvanaerie]

Nhadalie wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

Oh my, Lya is...calculating, let's say.  She is thoroughly political and does she ever lie to Anora about supporting her bid for the throne.  XD  I don't see that as her not being a good person though.  She does what she has to with the tools she has at her disposal.  It's one of the reasons she does the more questionable side quests.  For the big decisions, she does the *right* thing, ie saving Eamon's family, the mages, etc... but she also understands about the seamier side of things.

I wouldn't say that Kendra is necessarily a bad person. On the contrary. She's very much disgusted by the other nobles as a whole. Which is why she doesn't feel guilty about manipulating them. She takes a very aggressive defensive type stance in the beginning. She also lies her ass off to Anora too.


Alistair is the first guy she meets who doesn't actually want something from her, or to use her in some way. That's why she ends up romancing him. Because he's so genuine, and she honestly can't believe it at first.

Godak wrote...
The nerve! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png

I know. I am a terrible person, and it makes me sad. May I cry into your chest?

I'd say bosom, but you don't have one. Slight alterations!

sylvanaerie wrote...

Also women are taught from a young
age not to complain if they are in pain (Or at least my generation was)
which is why a lot more female heart attacks are fatal than men
(Statistically speaking). Men tend to get such things looked at sooner
than a woman would. Plus dammit I'm a mom, I could have a 102 degree
fever but I would still be expected to run my household chores, get the
kids off to school/work, run errands for hubby and do everything I
would do if I was well and still have a freaking smile on my face doing
it.

You sound just like my mom. Let me say this at least. I admire people like you a hell of a lot. You do so very much for your families, and never seem to get any recognition for it at all. Much less appreciation.

Thanks Nhadalie I love my family don't get me wrong but sometimes its very frustrating. Hubby is a truck driver so I am living a very single mom type situation. its not that I don't wish I couldn't just lay in bed when I get sick, I just have no choice cause if mom doesn't do it, who will?

[Sarah1281]

Having fought an Ogre, with 3 other teamates, isn't really the same thing as sleeping a few feet away from someone who has killed in cold blood.

If you think he plans to kill you in your sleep - and remember that people take watch every night, apparently in pairs so he wouldn't have a clean shot - then your gender really doesn't matter, now does it?

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Face it, your male PC is a punk who by all rights should have died a few times over by the time you get to Lothering.  It's no different for a female PC.  If you've already beaten down a few gaggle of darkspawn and an ogre, you're going to be scared of a half-starved Qunari who doesn't even have a weapon until you give him one?  If you are that scared, you'd better run along to Orlais and leave the Blight-fighting to someone else.

Scared?  I'd say it's being cautious/prudent more so than being scared, personally.  Can you honestly say you wouldn't have any reservations at all in recruiting him?

Having fought an Ogre, with 3 other teamates, isn't really the same thing as sleeping a few feet away from someone who has killed in cold blood.  Taking someone into your camp is a huge leap of faith considering how vulnerable that makes you.  His size and experience only make him that much more dangerous imo. 

Granted we know how it all goes down later, it just seems an odd decision to rationalize in Lothering to me, more so as a female.

That's my point, if you won't do it as a man, being a female it isn't going to make much more difference.  Gender doesn't matter in that decision, just what you feel is right or you can handle.  Dammit ninjaed again...I'm getting too sleepy to keep up lol but this discussion is REALLY interesting.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 26 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[Addai]

It just seems to me that you can't respect yourself in the story as a female PC, OP. Which is fine. I have this problem with dwarves. The height thing gets to me. And if I don't believe in my PC, it is hard to finish a game with her.

[Nhadalie]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Thanks Nhadalie I love my family don't get me wrong but sometimes its very frustrating. Hubby is a truck driver so I am living a very single mom type situation. its not that I don't wish I couldn't just lay in bed when I get sick, I just have no choice cause if mom doesn't do it, who will?

It's got to be tough. I know it is for my mom, and my dad is around all of the time.(Though a lot of the time, I think him being around makes it even worse. But I won't get into family issues here.)

I just wanted you to know that some people do realize how much you do, and how much other moms like you do. It's something I've always admired my mom for.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Nhadalie wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...


Well, of course a lot of things we learned in sociology weren't entirely sociological by nature. My professor just likes to give use curve balls every now and then since we even had to read a book about finances and marriage (both were written on the individual nature, and not about society as a whole). If you really want to cite averages though, there are far less exceptions than there are averages. You have to remember that the bell shaped curve only gives a small amount of exceptions both on the opposite ends of the spectrum. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between. As I put it, all things equal, the male will tolerate pain better than the female. Alas though, lets agree to disagree because we are going off-topic, and the OP probably wants to reclaim his thread lol.

Most people tend to average out about the same place. Regardless of gender. Though honestly, it depends on what the sociological test was on.

Also, the link you gave seems to have more to do with how medicine works for different people than pain thresholds. Which is hardly surprising. We know that children are affected differently by different types of drugs. Why wouldn't the different genders be affected differently?

Another part of it is what you've experienced. Someone who has been trained as a warrior would have a higher pain threshold than say.. A nobleman or woman who has never touched a sword in their life. You pick up a lot of bruises and other various wounds learning to fight.

Also, women tend to be more flexible than men. Which makes us more suited to the agile sneaky rogue type fighting than anything else.

My point is.. Regardless of how strong, weak, fast, or slow your character is. If you know how to fight properly with your own abilities, you can figure out how to take down almost any opponent. It's more of a matter of tactics and strategy than raw brute force.

Well, I agree with you to a certain extent. I guess I share the mindset of the OP because I clearly love being my manly machismo self lol. Also, yes the link wasn't the best, but that was the only thing I could get in such a short time period.

I see a lot of guys like Sten at my gym though, and they are pretty nice people. You get less intimidated by them when you get all that adrenaline pumping through your veins from working out lol. I agree with the OP, though, on his issues with playing a female warden, and he really thought out his argument instead of just spurting out that boys are better than girls cliche.

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Having
fought an Ogre, with 3 other teamates, isn't really the same thing as
sleeping a few feet away from someone who has killed in cold blood.

If
you think he plans to kill you in your sleep - and remember that people
take watch every night, apparently in pairs so he wouldn't have a clean
shot - then your gender really doesn't matter, now does it?

Fair enough I suppose.

Addai67 wrote...

It just seems to me that you can't respect yourself in the story as a female PC, OP.

Do I really come off that way?  It's really not what I'm trying to project. :/

[sylvanaerie]

On my one HNM playthrough I played him a lot like an old Pen and Paper RPG character I had (even had the same first name). I tried to respect the character and get into his "head" as much as I could, immerse myself in the environment, flirting with the female NPCs where I had the option (that kiss from Bella is the HOTTEST thing in the game IMO esp with the yokels looking on) and I had to leave behind the middle aged mom I am to be 'someone else' for the time I played him. It didn't hurt he looked like a younger version of Bann Teagan but I won't derail this topic with Teagan love so he was nice eye candy for me too. If you want to get the most out of your time as a femwarden you will have to leave behind who you are to play her I think, cause your male way of thinking is getting between you and the fem you want to try to play.

[Nhadalie]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Well, I agree with you to a certain extent. I guess I share the mindset of the OP because I clearly love being my manly machismo self lol. Also, yes the link wasn't the best, but that was the only thing I could get in such a short time period.

I see a lot of guys like Sten at my gym though, and they are pretty nice people. You get less intimidated by them when you get all that adrenaline pumping through your veins from working out lol. I agree with the OP, though, on his issues with playing a female warden, and he really thought out his argument instead of just spurting out that boys are better than girls cliche.

I have no issues with macho guys as long as they can get over themselves every now and then, and realize that women are just as capable.(If not more so, since often times we need to get creative to deal with things.)

Actually, in some cases I like a bit of macho-ism in guys. As long as it's tempered with some common sense and intelligence. And they don't do stupid hormone driven things... Yeah, I'm getting a bit off topic here.

"Boys are better at magic than girls."

Sorry. Your comment reminded me of the kids in the Mage origin.


If we're going to use cliches, then you boys are icky, because you have cooties.

[Addai]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

It just seems to me that you can't respect yourself in the story as a female PC, OP.

Do I really come off that way?  It's really not what I'm trying to project. :/

I don't think it's "bad."  There is an element of wish fulfillment to an RPG and also we bring our prejudices to our sense of what is plausible in the story.  Normally I don't like the Xena warrior princess types which are so popular in modern culture, and in Oblivion I usually played male PCs because it just seemed more "right" for a medieval-type knight hero.  Somehow DA:O is different.  I think it is because in-game it is acknowledged that you are actually not the average woman, that what you are doing is unusual.  The fact that the prejudice is acknowledged makes it more plausible to me.  Probably because I know that in history there actually are warrior women who, though few and far between, nonetheless become legendary.

[Axekix]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...
I see a lot of guys like Sten at my gym though, and they are pretty nice people. You get less intimidated by them when you get all that adrenaline pumping through your veins from working out lol. I agree with the OP, though, on his issues with playing a female warden, and he really thought out his argument instead of just spurting out that boys are better than girls cliche.

Yeah, it seems like we're the only two who see it that way for the moment, so I guess I'll just leave it alone for now. 

Modifié par Axekix, 26 mars 2010 - 06:28 .

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Nhadalie wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Well, I agree with you to a certain extent. I guess I share the mindset of the OP because I clearly love being my manly machismo self lol. Also, yes the link wasn't the best, but that was the only thing I could get in such a short time period.

I see a lot of guys like Sten at my gym though, and they are pretty nice people. You get less intimidated by them when you get all that adrenaline pumping through your veins from working out lol. I agree with the OP, though, on his issues with playing a female warden, and he really thought out his argument instead of just spurting out that boys are better than girls cliche.

I have no issues with macho guys as long as they can get over themselves every now and then, and realize that women are just as capable.(If not more so, since often times we need to get creative to deal with things.)

Actually, in some cases I like a bit of macho-ism in guys. As long as it's tempered with some common sense and intelligence. And they don't do stupid hormone driven things... Yeah, I'm getting a bit off topic here.

"Boys are better at magic than girls."

Sorry. Your comment reminded me of the kids in the Mage origin.


If we're going to use cliches, then you boys are icky, because you have cooties.

In no way, do I try belittle women. I know what you girls do is amazing, especially putting up with our crap. I just get kind of, I don't know how to put it, itchy when it comes to prowess.

*Spoilers*

Even if you are a male or female, Sten is really more of a tactical decision. I mean if he does report back to the Quinari you have possible war between the two states, thus either way Sten is a threat to the male or female. I guess you would have to go with which person is more cunning/ at the time of recruiting Sten. Do you either kill Sten, or allow him to start a war... In terms of the scene in Lothering, I would allow Sten to escape regardless because that is just cruel to allow him to starve to death, or die a horrible death by being food for the darkspawn.

[Addai]

And I will keep working on my male PC.   The fun part for me about playing a male PC is that I get to make him be as chivalrous to the women NPCs as I'd want a man to be to me in that situation.  And, because he's dead sexy!  It's more like "wow what a hottie, and he's got a sword!" as opposed to "look how awesome I am."

Same with the romance- I really like the Morrigan romance.  It gives me a surprising look at her character, which I thought I knew well from my female PCs befriending her.
I don't know what to tell you in terms of the male leads.  I find both of them delicious and have a hard time choosing.  The Zevran romance thread here is mostly populated by women, if that tells you anything- his appeal is definitely not a sleaze factor.  Alistair, well again, the sheer number of fangirls around should tell you something.  And we're not even talking about Nathaniel Howe yet...  David Gaider must be quite a ladykiller in real life, because he really knows how to write a male lead that hits you between the eyes.  LOL  (credit also to the sexy voices of the VAs, of course)

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mars 2010 - 06:30 .

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...



It just seems to me that you can't respect yourself in the story as a female PC, OP.

Do I really come off that way? It's really not what I'm trying to project. :/

I don't think it's "bad." There is an element of wish fulfillment to an RPG and also we bring our prejudices to our sense of what is plausible in the story. Normally I don't like the Xena warrior princess types which are so popular in modern culture, and in Oblivion I usually played male PCs because it just seemed more "right" for a medieval-type knight hero. Somehow DA:O is different. I think it is because in-game it is acknowledged that you are actually not the average woman, that what you are doing is unusual. The fact that the prejudice is acknowledged makes it more plausible to me. Probably because I know that in history there actually are warrior women who, though few and far between, nonetheless become legendary.

I suppose it takes a bit more suspension of disbelief in my case, which is alright too (it is a fantasy RPG afterall). Perhaps I'm not good at "thinking like a woman?" I'm honestly surprised that most of the female players here gloss over the Sten thing. I mean I don't know any women IRL who would be so confident in being able to handle someone the size of Shaq (and I work at a mma gym, so female fighters aren't alien to me). I've seen first hand the effect of size in combat



But you are right in that the female PC isn't an average woman, and the PC regardless of gender is doing incredible things in DAO.

[Axekix]

Addai67 wrote...

And I will keep working on my male PC.   The fun part for me about playing a male PC is that I get to make him be as chivalrous to the women NPCs as I'd want a man to be to me in that situation. 

I think you actually hit on something there.  When I'm playing a female PC, Alistair doesn't really seem to live up to being the kind of chivalrous male that my male PCs are, which is a bit disappointing. 

The best romance option for my HNF is my HNM... err

[Xandurpein]

To all male posters on this subject. Notice how many times male players complain that Alistair is too unmanly for female characters. Notice how many female players rush to defend Alistair and claim he is very manly and a dream guy. There is a lot of relationship advice hidden here, for those men who bother to look...

Modifié par Xandurpein, 26 mars 2010 - 06:37 .

[Addai]

Alistair is chivalrous, though. He is protective of the PC, he's just not overbearing about it, and lacks self-confidence in his leadership ability because of his upbringing. It's part of his character arc. His appeal is less for machismo than because he's gentle, kind, and goofy. My human noblewomen don't usually *really* fall for him until later in the game when, as hardened, he starts taking charge at the Landsmeet. My elven characters have usually had terrible experiences with human men, so his gentleness and kindness disarms them.  If he came on more strongly, they would run in the other direction.

Zevran's bravado and flirtatiousness rather quickly crack and you see that there is more there. As soon as he hits Warm, he asks your PC in a halting and shy way what sort of future she envisions with him. It's one of the surprising things about his romance, that despite the fact that he seems to be a man-****, he wants to know right from the beginning if there is a future with you. He is always gentlemanly unless he is trying to deflect condescension, as he does in certain party banters (like with Wynne, with whom he starts out very respectful and who treats him like shoe dirt). I first got a clue that there was something more to his romance when I had a character who just wanted a fling with him. She slept with him once or twice, then broke it off. I was so surprised at how hurt he looked and sounded. Hadn't expected that, because I didn't realize that he wasn't just in it for the sex, too, even at that early stage.

Anyway... some things to think about, from the female side of viewing the characters. This female's, anyway.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 mars 2010 - 06:53 .

[Lara Denton]

Xandurpein wrote...

To all male posters on this subject. Notice how many times male players complain that Alistair is too unmanly for female characters. Notice how many female players rush to defend Alistair and claim he is very manly and a dream guy. There is a lot of relationship advice hidden here, for those men who bother to look...

You are quite right. But I guess it's hard for a guy to understand Alistair's appeal when he was clearly designed for the girls. He is absolutely amazing. But then again, I'm one of the girls.

[Ceridraen]

Xandurpein wrote...

To all male posters on this subject. Notice how many times male players complain that Alistair is too unmanly for female characters. Notice how many female players rush to defend Alistair and claim he is very manly and a dream guy. There is a lot of relationship advice hidden here, for those men who bother to look...

   So true! I asked my son once what he thought an 'ideal man' was, what kind of man a girl wants.  He described something so horrific that Sten himself would look weedy.  A pushy, domineering, cocky, over-confident hulk of a man, without shyness or doubt.  All the girls in the room laughed, tried to explain, but he had a hard time realizing that a girl picks, say, Johnny Depp before... I don't know... some massive, brawny, swaggering type.

[errant_knight]

Axekix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

And I will keep working on my male PC.   The fun part for me about playing a male PC is that I get to make him be as chivalrous to the women NPCs as I'd want a man to be to me in that situation. 

I think you actually hit on something there.  When I'm playing a female PC, Alistair doesn't really seem to live up to being the kind of chivalrous male that my male PCs are, which is a bit disappointing. 

The best romance option for my HNF is my HNM... err

How much more chivalrous can one be than Alistair at end game when in a romance with the female PC? And he doesn't even have to be in love with her still, only to once have loved her! He's very chivalrous, he just doesn't feel the need to take over things she's perfectly capable of doing for herself. She's a warrior. Pushing her aside in the name of protecting her would be insulting, not chivalrous.

Xandurpein wrote...

To all male posters on this subject. Notice how many times male players complain that Alistair is too unmanly for female characters. Notice how many female players rush to defend Alistair and claim he is very manly and a dream guy. There is a lot of relationship advice hidden here, for those men who bother to look...

Heh, I tried mentioning this once. It doesn't seem to register. I'm alway surprised at how many guys diss Alistair instead of taking notes.

Modifié par errant_knight, 26 mars 2010 - 07:19 .

[Gilsa]

What a fun thread! I loved reading everyone's responses! Axekix, kudos for starting such a brave topic. It is obvious how much thought you've put into your post and how open you are to feedback. I'll contribute my thoughts on your original post:

1) Re: Alistair being wussy to a female -- it's funny you say that because I actually thought Alistair seemed wussier to my male PCs than to my female PCs. I didn't find his attempts at humor as charming on the male PCs. The way he acts to my female PCs is just like Xander from Buffy, the Vampire Slayer (I read somewhere that he is inspired by Xander and by Malcom from Firefly). Xander is the least powerful person on the show, but he's got a lot of heart, has a lot of witty lines, and tries so hard to help out. It's the thought that counts. On my male characters, I just wanted Alistair to get to the point rather than waste that extra time deflecting the issue with humor. I thought it was very amusing to see you had the opposite perspective, heh. Plus I don't think I thought any less of Alistair because my first character was a dwarf noble and she was trained to be a commander in addition to being in line for the throne. Her responsibilies were greater than Alistair who, at the time, was just an average soldier who was taking orders from Duncan and going with the flow. I knew it was gameplay mechanics that had him deferring to me so it just didn't set off any "this is not a manly man" alarm bells for me. He did seem to take all the emotional risks in the romance, setting himself up for rejection, so it really balanced out. I feel like I have to work somewhat harder with Zevran, that I have to be the dominant person in the relationship to get something out of him, but at the same time, he's assertive with his opinons in regular gameplay. Just a matter of perspective.

2) Sten's size wasn't an issue for me. I liked his short and curt answers. Something about it just made me feel like he was being straight up with me. Plus I viewed my dwarf as an Amazon and didn't even feel like he was really a threat. Leaving aside the arguments about the strengths of RL women, this was a fantasy  game and I feel that dwarves are just tougher than humans and elves. We're made of sturdy stuff, have a high tolerance for alcohol, and have the best craftsmanship and the best experience in fighting darkspawn. Sten really wasn't a concern for me.

3) The proposal -- I actually prefer that the HNF forces herself on Alistair to get married. I would have felt very cheated if Alistair proposed on his own to the human, but not to my dwarves (or elves). Really, why should Alistair love a human more than the rest of us who are equally as sexy and kickass? I don't mind that the HNF gets the marriage because the feudal system makes perfect sense. If he's going to propose to the woman he loves, it shouldn't matter what her race is, dammit! =p (Hell, if I could be queen of Orzammar, I'd tell the dwarven people to stuff it and ask Alistair to be my king.)

4) I don't like Morrigan only because I don't like feeling like I've been played all along. I don't mind her blunt personality and I know when to leave her behind so I don't get a massive dose of disapprovals. She's usually at 100 friendship, despite the fact I don't accept her dark rituals. Her mission is more important than her friendship with my character and I just don't appreciate that she isn't willing to give me any details about the kid or allow me to find her again. Her dialogue is pretty limited compared to the male versions. I found myself laughing out loud at her conversations when I played the male in a romance with her. I wished I had seem this charming side of her on my females, but alas.

5) Don't feel like you have to romance Alistair or Zevran or Leliana to enjoy a female character. I think sometimes the romances can detract from the overall direction of the story. If your character wasn't in love with Alistair, would she still say yes to the dark ritual? That's kind of why I thought Awakening was a fresh breath of air -- it was time to see what your character was really made of! I enjoyed my dwarf commoner for this very reason. Nothing between her and that archdemon!

[Xandurpein]

Modifié par Xandurpein, 26 mars 2010 - 07:25 .