573 réponses à ce sujet

[DWSmiley]

BubbleDncr wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

4. Morrigan Choice - I think this decision is actually difficult and important as a female. On one hand, you can either die or let your love die. On the other hand, you can convince your LOVE to sleep with another woman, which is emotionally hard to do all by itself, but you add on to the fact that you're possibly screwing the world over with a demon god child. So as a male, you can either be selfish and get to sleep with some chick, or be selfless and die. Female: be seflish but deal with the emotional turmoil of convincing your love to sleep with another woman, or be selfless and die.

My HNF Elissa tried very hard to find another way.  She hardened Alistair, told Morrigan where to go, convinced Alistair and Anora to a political marriage, made it clear to Anora that she (Elissa) was "still in the picture", and spared Loghain so he could make the ultimate sacrifice.  I hoped I could salvage the romance after Loghain died but alas, no such luck.  So Elissa went travelling with Zevran instead.

awww....was it that Alistair still was mad at you for letting Loghain live?

and even if that had worked...you're still making Alistair sleep with another woman...actually marry her in this case. so its still a pretty tough deal.

He said he no longer hated me but there was no option to talk about getting back together. 

Neither of them wanted to marry so I was hoping it would be a purely political relationship.  But then you learn they make a superb ruling couple so I guess that wasn't going to happen either.  Oh, well.  Zevran's quite sweet underneath his brazen exterior and life on the road with him was probably fun.

[Addai]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I always figured she was a strong enough woman to sacrifce that part of herself and have Alistair complete the ritual so they could be together. Doesn't really mean squat if you're a man, Lelanna might be peeved but that's about it. Not like you're ripping you're heart out and feeding it to the witch.

Whole different ballgame if you romance Morrigan, however.  Wow, issues... the woman you love and have come to trust despite some long odds tells you she wants your baby, but then doesn't want to ever see you again.  Even if you romanced Leli, you're still fathering a child and your child's soul is going to be overwritten with that of a god's.  Personally, I think it's more difficult for the male PC.  But maybe that's because I'm a woman?

[LadyDamodred]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
I would think the same thing as you until she says the only reason why your alive, the only reason why she's with you is because of this ritual.  But then you get her goodbye at the gate and I tell her thank you because of the opportunity of finding some happiness and being able to live and she seems so genuinely heartfelt making her speech. 

That might be the reason you are alive, yes, but I think by the end of the game she is choosing to do it b/c she wants to save you.  The initial reason for her to go with you does not have to be the reason she tells you about the DR.  I choose to think she genuinely cares about me and is trying to save me.

[DWSmiley]

Valentia X wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

And the woman, given sufficent strength, can develop that muscle mass.

Men and women are not born with one sort of body. Speaking as a female myself, i'm on the taller side and stronger than most women and men of my general build. A woman with the right bodily disposition will be better equipped to use that two handed sword better than a man who isn't.

In the character creator, men and women are treated as equals in Ferelden. There is no reason for a woman to not be able to use the same abilities.

I should have been clearer.  An exceptional woman could become a better 2H warrior than many men but she could never become the best 2H warrior in the kingdom and, by the time of the final battle, I think of my Warden as the very best at what s/he does.

Well, even as I type this I'm thinking of one way it maybe could be "believable".  Perhaps the enhancements one gains in the Fade make her truly superwoman.  After all, as others have mentioned, swinging a 2H weapon is mild compared to sprinting in massive armor or leaping 10 feet to dispatch an ogre.  

Except for the fact that it's not just biological imperative that decides whether one is the most powerful 2h warrior/mage/juggling qunari clownmaster/what have you. Yes, that is a factor and it might be a very important factor, but even then, it's not set in stone. One woman many come from a line of soldiers and farmers and be predisposed to greater amounts of strength than a man of a artisan families. It's not just innate talent, it's learned skilled and practise. And if someone's playing as a 2h warrior woman, I would guess that they've got more learned skill and practise than anyone else, considering the run around they have to go through.

But look at the Olympics, for example.  The athletes all dedicate their lives to being the best but women would have no chance in many events if they had to compete against men.  Maybe Qunari females are as big and strong as the males but Dragon Age humans are clearly like us and a fighting style that benefits a lot from brute strength makes 2H the one class that I see as male only at the top levels.

[Axekix]

DWSmiley wrote...
But look at the Olympics, for example.  The athletes all dedicate their lives to being the best but women would have no chance in many events if they had to compete against men.  Maybe Qunari females are as big and strong as the males but Dragon Age humans are clearly like us and a fighting style that benefits a lot from brute strength makes 2H the one class that I see as male only at the top levels.

You are absolutely right in that regard. 

It can even go a step further when it comes to competitive combat sports.  In events like boxing/wrestling/kickboxing/jiujitsu/mma etc, there are weight classes for a reason.  Even a 20lb gap can make a significant difference, skill being relatively equal. 

[Ranger Discord]

The funny thing is, I'm pretty much the opposite of the OP.  I can not bring myself to play as a male character.  Playing a male character just seems so boring to me.  They never have to go through half of what female characters do in order to prove themselves which is true in a lot of cases irl.  I think this kind of of conflict builds character though and in a lot of ways strengthens my characters resolve to do what she thinks is right and damn the consequences.  I'd rather play a complex character though which for me tends to be the females since men who fight are usually a dime a dozen.  But I prefer being unique rather than just average.

It is a shame though that you can't seem to complete a playthrough as a female character.  I find it far more rewarding than any game I've played where I haven't had the choice to play as a female.  Maybe I have just been around much stronger women than you have, I don't know but I have no issues with any believability that a female character can not only command but keep those around her in check. 

Even if I didn't think she had the strength for it, a fight is pretty rarely a test of strength.  I fence as a hobby and I spend more time watching my opponents moves and trying to catch them off guard than trying to overpower them, which can happen if you lock blades but the person who will win in that case is not the stronger person but depends on where on the length of the blade they are touching.  Not to mention that fighting in a manner that depends mainly on your physical prowess will exhaust you far quicker than someone who uses a more tactical approach, but I'm probably digressing....

Really though, you just have to keep an open mind about these things.  Life is rarely black and white even though we try to classify it as such.  A female character can be just as effective as a male character can be completely inept. 

[sylvanaerie]

Nhadalie wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...


I just see Morrigan as being terribly damaged by what appears to have been an abusive upbringing by Flemeth.  When a child has to choose between love and safety, they generally choose safety.  Morrigan learned that trying to love someone (as she probably tried to love her "mother") was dangerous and brought pain and suffering.  So she chose safety. Safety by identifying with her aggressor (if you can't beat 'em, join 'em) and by withdrawing emotionally from Flemeth as well.  As Flemeth used men, Morrigan learned to use men.  I would suspect that although she feels contempt for men (easy to manipulate) she also fears them (they can hit hard or if they are nice you might start feeling something for them).  That's why I think she backs away from the relationship with the male warden at a certain point.

I think with a female warden, she does develop a true friendship although even this would have been hard for her....after all, Flemeth was female.  I feel a great deal of sorrow for Morrigan because of all the characters, I think she (with Zev a close second) is the one most damaged by her childhood. I think it's why she's so prickly.  As Stephen King wrote for one of his characters "Sometimes, being a **** is all a woman has to hang onto."

I agree with pretty much everything you said there. The only thing is, I don't feel like Morrigan was taking the safe route with the dark ritual. She was putting herself into a situation that could go wrong in so very very many ways.

Personally, I feel like part of the reason why Morrigan leaves is because she's afraid of how her friend will act towards her after the dark ritual. I mean.. In that situation, the female PC is the first real friend that Morrigan has ever had. And Morrigan understands just what she's asking of her friend in the situation that the PC and Alistair are together. But she sees it as being worth it, because it saves her friend's life. Even if the cost of it is that her only friend begins to hate her. Which is supported by the conversation you get with Morrigan if you choose to take her to fight the archdemon. You can talk to her, and get a conversation option about the ritual. If you thank her, she seems surprised that you are grateful about it.

yea I always thank her afterward and she seems so touched.  That line "Live gloriously my friend" touches me.  All the conversations at the gate are touching.  Of course you won't get one for Morrigan if you refuse the ritual but on the US ending its especially so cause you know you are going to die. This is the last time your PC will see them.

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I always figured she was a strong enough woman to sacrifce that part of herself and have Alistair complete the ritual so they could be together. Doesn't really mean squat if you're a man, Lelanna might be peeved but that's about it. Not like you're ripping you're heart out and feeding it to the witch.

Whole different ballgame if you romance Morrigan, however.  Wow, issues... the woman you love and have come to trust despite some long odds tells you she wants your baby, but then doesn't want to ever see you again.  Even if you romanced Leli, you're still fathering a child and your child's soul is going to be overwritten with that of a god's.  Personally, I think it's more difficult for the male PC.  But maybe that's because I'm a woman?

Does it bother you, though, that it's the PC's decision but Alistair gets dragged into it, despite his strong instinct that it's the worst idea in the world? That's my big issue and probably the worst thing about playing a female PC. It's a burden that a man can bear alone, but a woman has to share. I have no problem with the ritual itself, and the sex doesn't bother me either, I just wish that there was a way to get it done without compromising Alistair. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 27 mars 2010 - 01:00 .

[sylvanaerie]

SurelyForth wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I always figured she was a strong enough woman to sacrifce that part of herself and have Alistair complete the ritual so they could be together. Doesn't really mean squat if you're a man, Lelanna might be peeved but that's about it. Not like you're ripping you're heart out and feeding it to the witch.

Whole different ballgame if you romance Morrigan, however.  Wow, issues... the woman you love and have come to trust despite some long odds tells you she wants your baby, but then doesn't want to ever see you again.  Even if you romanced Leli, you're still fathering a child and your child's soul is going to be overwritten with that of a god's.  Personally, I think it's more difficult for the male PC.  But maybe that's because I'm a woman?

Does it bother you, though, that it's the PC's decision but Alistair gets dragged into it, despite his strong instinct that it's the worst idea in the world? That's my big issue and probably the worst thing about playing a female PC. It's a burden that a man can bear alone, but a woman has to share.

Yea I hate it too.  I think its all part of a recurring theme that game though of "Sacrifice".  Either you sacrifice a life or you have to sacrifice innocence/love.  Even Loghain is loathe to do it and begs you not to make him.

[Gill Kaiser]

Yes, but in Loghain's case it's because he sincerely wants to redeem himself by doing the Ultimate Sacrifice.

[SurelyForth]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Yea I hate it too.  I think its all part of a recurring theme that game though of "Sacrifice".  Either you sacrifice a life or you have to sacrifice innocence/love.  Even Loghain is loathe to do it and begs you not to make him.

Stupid, sexy sacrifice. I wouldn't love the game if it was happy happy, but every time I see Alistair on the verge of losing his mind when I tell him that Morrigan wants an old-god baby, I realize that there is no line my PC speaks that is truer than "I would do it myself if I could". And, by the Maker, when I play a male he seizes that witch with gusto. 

[Gilsa]

SurelyForth wrote...

Does it bother you, though, that it's the PC's decision but Alistair gets dragged into it, despite his strong instinct that it's the worst idea in the world? That's my big issue and probably the worst thing about playing a female PC. It's a burden that a man can bear alone, but a woman has to share. I have no problem with the ritual itself, and the sex doesn't bother me either, I just wish that there was a way to get it done without compromising Alistair. 

Yeah, that's one of my hesitations about the dark ritual. Even when I play characters that don't care one way or another, just the fact that Loghain vehemently objects usually seals the deal for me. He would rather die than consent to what I'm asking so it makes it that much harder for me to even ask Alistair to do it. He'll do it willingly because he loves the PC that much, but what if that burden he carries starts to poison the well and he ends up resenting my PC eventually? I guess it would just be a lot easier if he was as enthusastic about doing the ritual with Morrigan (to ensure the future, not because of wild romp, heh) as he is about taking the final blow in the PC's place. I think male PCs are lucky because the burden is theirs alone. They don't subject anyone else to it. And in most cases, they don't see the problem because they love Morrigan anyway!

[sylvanaerie]

Gilsa wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Does it bother you, though, that it's the PC's decision but Alistair gets dragged into it, despite his strong instinct that it's the worst idea in the world? That's my big issue and probably the worst thing about playing a female PC. It's a burden that a man can bear alone, but a woman has to share. I have no problem with the ritual itself, and the sex doesn't bother me either, I just wish that there was a way to get it done without compromising Alistair. 

Yeah, that's one of my hesitations about the dark ritual. Even when I play characters that don't care one way or another, just the fact that Loghain vehemently objects usually seals the deal for me. He would rather die than consent to what I'm asking so it makes it that much harder for me to even ask Alistair to do it. He'll do it willingly because he loves the PC that much, but what if that burden he carries starts to poison the well and he ends up resenting my PC eventually? I guess it would just be a lot easier if he was as enthusastic about doing the ritual with Morrigan (to ensure the future, not because of wild romp, heh) as he is about taking the final blow in the PC's place. I think male PCs are lucky because the burden is theirs alone. They don't subject anyone else to it. And in most cases, they don't see the problem because they love Morrigan anyway!

It was hard for me on my boy Cousland too. (he hadn't romanced Morrigan, he was Leli's man) and I still felt cheap doing it because of it. I especially hated that she brought up Leliana in the conversation.  I don't remember if she brought up Alistair (as king making the kill) but definitely brought it up in a way that Al would get all the accolades and PC would just be "the buddy he brought along" (like that was a convincer).  In the end I did it and no one was the wiser but I still felt like a piece of meat doing it.

I also did a save there and refused it and got my sacrificed endings too.  I didn't want to go through the rigamarole of starting all over again.

I am curious how different it is if your PC is in love with Morrigan though.  I would imagine that would make it all the worse.

[errant_knight]

SurelyForth wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I always figured she was a strong enough woman to sacrifce that part of herself and have Alistair complete the ritual so they could be together. Doesn't really mean squat if you're a man, Lelanna might be peeved but that's about it. Not like you're ripping you're heart out and feeding it to the witch.

Whole different ballgame if you romance Morrigan, however.  Wow, issues... the woman you love and have come to trust despite some long odds tells you she wants your baby, but then doesn't want to ever see you again.  Even if you romanced Leli, you're still fathering a child and your child's soul is going to be overwritten with that of a god's.  Personally, I think it's more difficult for the male PC.  But maybe that's because I'm a woman?

Does it bother you, though, that it's the PC's decision but Alistair gets dragged into it, despite his strong instinct that it's the worst idea in the world? That's my big issue and probably the worst thing about playing a female PC. It's a burden that a man can bear alone, but a woman has to share. I have no problem with the ritual itself, and the sex doesn't bother me either, I just wish that there was a way to get it done without compromising Alistair. 

I don't think it actually does compromise him. If it did, it would be possible to get him to refuse. He's very clear when he reaches a line that he won't cross, but he doesn't do that. I don't think he likes it one little bit, and I think he's worried about what it might mean in the long term, but the possible survival of the last three wardens in Fereldan is important enough to convince him that it's worth the risk.

In the same way that he won't fight alongside Loghain under any circumstances, he won't let his fellow wardens die if he can prevent it. Both are absolutes in terms of character, no matter how many mixed emotions the decisions may cause.

That being said, I think that to lie to him about it, use coercion, or blackmail him with 'you'd do it if you loved me' isn't moral and denies him the possibility of making an honest choice

[Gilsa]

Probably does make it worse. I've never seen one male PC be happy that Morrigan still walked out in the end. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. They don't keep the girl either way. In some cases, that baby is their connection to Morrigan and they're determined to find her again.

[ejoslin]

Gilsa wrote...

Yeah, that's one of my hesitations about the dark ritual. Even when I play characters that don't care one way or another, just the fact that Loghain vehemently objects usually seals the deal for me. He would rather die than consent to what I'm asking so it makes it that much harder for me to even ask Alistair to do it. He'll do it willingly because he loves the PC that much, but what if that burden he carries starts to poison the well and he ends up resenting my PC eventually? I guess it would just be a lot easier if he was as enthusastic about doing the ritual with Morrigan (to ensure the future, not because of wild romp, heh) as he is about taking the final blow in the PC's place. I think male PCs are lucky because the burden is theirs alone. They don't subject anyone else to it. And in most cases, they don't see the problem because they love Morrigan anyway!

If Alistair is in love or still in love with the Warden, he won't refuse to do the ritual.  You can back out of it, but he will not.  If you leave it up to him, he'd rather live with the Warden than take the chance of her dying.

Edit: Bad flags.  BAD BAD flags!

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 mars 2010 - 01:37 .

[sylvanaerie]

errant_knight wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

I always figured she was a strong enough woman to sacrifce that part of herself and have Alistair complete the ritual so they could be together. Doesn't really mean squat if you're a man, Lelanna might be peeved but that's about it. Not like you're ripping you're heart out and feeding it to the witch.

Whole different ballgame if you romance Morrigan, however.  Wow, issues... the woman you love and have come to trust despite some long odds tells you she wants your baby, but then doesn't want to ever see you again.  Even if you romanced Leli, you're still fathering a child and your child's soul is going to be overwritten with that of a god's.  Personally, I think it's more difficult for the male PC.  But maybe that's because I'm a woman?

Does it bother you, though, that it's the PC's decision but Alistair gets dragged into it, despite his strong instinct that it's the worst idea in the world? That's my big issue and probably the worst thing about playing a female PC. It's a burden that a man can bear alone, but a woman has to share. I have no problem with the ritual itself, and the sex doesn't bother me either, I just wish that there was a way to get it done without compromising Alistair. 

I don't think it actually does compromise him. If it did, it would be possible to get him to refuse. He's very clear when he reaches a line that he won't cross, but he doesn't do that. I don't think he likes it one little bit, and I think he's worried about what it might mean in the long term, but the possible survival of the last three wardens in Fereldan is important enough to convince him that it's worth the risk.

In the same way that he won't fight alongside Loghain under any circumstances, he won't let his fellow wardens die if he can prevent it. Both are absolutes in terms of character, no matter how many mixed emotions the decisions may cause.

That being said, I think that to lie to him about it, use coercion, or blackmail him with 'you'd do it if you loved me' isn't moral and denies him the possibility of making an honest choice

yea I always tell him "This will result in a child" and his reaction is priceless.  When you tell Morrigan and he asks about it she says something funny like "Honesty isn't the route I would have chosen..."  Be that as it may I think she was honest saying she didn't want to use the child against Ferelden (his question) and that she really was trying to save our lives (as one motive) and preserve the Old Soul not ALL her motives for doing it but a couple of them anyway.

Now that I have played through more than once that conversation outside Flemeth's hut always makes me doubletake.  I am more concerned WHY Flemeth wanted Morrigan to do this...and if SHE had planned on taking over Morrigan's body to raise the God Child?

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 27 mars 2010 - 01:39 .

[errant_knight]

Agreed. I think Flemeth is a more dangerous unknown factor here than Morrigan.

[The Other One]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I am curious how different it is if your PC is in love with Morrigan though.  I would imagine that would make it all the worse.

Here is why I love Dragon Age so much....

On my last playthrough my PC started a romance with Morrigan. He later started romancing Leliana. They shared him for a while but had really bitter arguments whenever they went anywhere together (and he never went anywhere without both of them). Leliana eventually gave him the ultimatum, so he called it off with Morrigan. And for the remainder of the game I felt really bad about hurting Morrigan that way (still do). PC went through with the DR, and the entire time I felt really bad about what my PC was doing to both of his girls. So when he tells Morrigan that he will never stop looking for her, he really meant it. Even though he chose to stay with Leliana.

I haven't seen anything about what is happening on 2/01/2011, but I really hope my PC and Leliana get to set off together in search of their dear friend Morrigan.
 
Apologies for overusing the word "really".

[SurelyForth]

errant_knight wrote...
I don't think it actually does compromise him. If it did, it would be possible to get him to refuse. He's very clear when he reaches a line that he won't cross, but he doesn't do that. I don't think he likes it one little bit, and I think he's worried about what it might mean in the long term, but the possible survival of the last three wardens in Fereldan is important enough to convince him that it's worth the risk.

In the same way that he won't fight alongside Loghain under any circumstances, he won't let his fellow wardens die if he can prevent it. Both are absolutes in terms of character, no matter how many mixed emotions the decisions may cause.

That being said, I think that to lie to him about it, use coercion, or blackmail him with 'you'd do it if you loved me' isn't moral and denies him the possibility of making an honest choice

I think the fact that it's harder to get him to do it if he's hardened is very telling. He won't refuse unless the Warden back downs, but it doesn't change the fact that he's having to cross several lines he doesn't want to (relationship boundaries, ethical boundaries, and personal boundaries) for something that might not even work. I see it as him compromising himself to ensure that Riordan and the PC have a better chance at survival because it's the only thing that might be done in that situation and he's the only one who can do it. With that sort of pressure, I think he might even be willing to call up Loghain's corpse to help out.

And if you back out at the last minute, even if he knows that it will possibly save you, he is extremely relieved. I think if it was something that he truly felt was above board, he would insist on doing it even if the PC says that she shouldn't have asked. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 27 mars 2010 - 02:05 .

[sylvanaerie]

SurelyForth wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
I don't think it actually does compromise him. If it did, it would be possible to get him to refuse. He's very clear when he reaches a line that he won't cross, but he doesn't do that. I don't think he likes it one little bit, and I think he's worried about what it might mean in the long term, but the possible survival of the last three wardens in Fereldan is important enough to convince him that it's worth the risk.

In the same way that he won't fight alongside Loghain under any circumstances, he won't let his fellow wardens die if he can prevent it. Both are absolutes in terms of character, no matter how many mixed emotions the decisions may cause.

That being said, I think that to lie to him about it, use coercion, or blackmail him with 'you'd do it if you loved me' isn't moral and denies him the possibility of making an honest choice

I think the fact that it's harder to get him to do it if he's hardened is very telling. He won't refuse unless the Warden back downs, but it doesn't change the fact that he's having to cross several lines he doesn't want to (relationship boundaries, ethical boundaries, and personal boundaries) for something that might not even work. I see it as him compromising himself to ensure that Riordan and the PC have a better chance at survival because it's the only thing that might be done in that situation and he's the only one who can do it. With that sort of pressure, I think he might even be willing to call up Loghain's corpse to help out.

LOL Okay that made me giggle.  At that point he's probably wishing "Damn I wish I hadn't made such an issue about Loghain now" *Facepalms* "Stupid stupid stupid..."

[SurelyForth]

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL Okay that made me giggle.  At that point he's probably wishing "Damn I wish I hadn't made such an issue about Loghain now" *Facepalms* "Stupid stupid stupid..."

Right? This is why a nice, in-depth meeting with Riordan before the Landsmeet would made this game about 75% less angst-ridden.

[sylvanaerie]

SurelyForth wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
LOL Okay that made me giggle.  At that point he's probably wishing "Damn I wish I hadn't made such an issue about Loghain now" *Facepalms* "Stupid stupid stupid..."

Right? This is why a nice, in-depth meeting with Riordan before the Landsmeet would made this game about 75% less angst-ridden.

Oh man don't get me started on Riordan.  LOVE the accent...and hes gorgeous in a rugged sort of way but when I see him I think:

"Cute but stupid, stupid, stupid..."

Its one reason I often have Al do the duel just so I can avoid that whole ****** moment.
 

[Axekix]

SurelyForth wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
I don't think it actually does compromise him. If it did, it would be possible to get him to refuse. He's very clear when he reaches a line that he won't cross, but he doesn't do that. I don't think he likes it one little bit, and I think he's worried about what it might mean in the long term, but the possible survival of the last three wardens in Fereldan is important enough to convince him that it's worth the risk.

In the same way that he won't fight alongside Loghain under any circumstances, he won't let his fellow wardens die if he can prevent it. Both are absolutes in terms of character, no matter how many mixed emotions the decisions may cause.

That being said, I think that to lie to him about it, use coercion, or blackmail him with 'you'd do it if you loved me' isn't moral and denies him the possibility of making an honest choice

I think the fact that it's harder to get him to do it if he's hardened is very telling. He won't refuse unless the Warden back downs, but it doesn't change the fact that he's having to cross several lines he doesn't want to (relationship boundaries, ethical boundaries, and personal boundaries) for something that might not even work. I see it as him compromising himself to ensure that Riordan and the PC have a better chance at survival because it's the only thing that might be done in that situation and he's the only one who can do it. With that sort of pressure, I think he might even be willing to call up Loghain's corpse to help out.

And if you back out at the last minute, even if he knows that it will possibly save you, he is extremely relieved. I think if it was something that he truly felt was above board, he would insist on doing it even if the PC says that she shouldn't have asked. 

See... now I really want to play through that part just to see the convo first hand.  I know from my male playthroughs that Alistair at least thinks Morrigan is beautiful, since he's straight up admitted it when "gossiping" with my warden

I just don't know if I could stand romancing him for that long...

[sylvanaerie]

Axekix wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
I don't think it actually does compromise him. If it did, it would be possible to get him to refuse. He's very clear when he reaches a line that he won't cross, but he doesn't do that. I don't think he likes it one little bit, and I think he's worried about what it might mean in the long term, but the possible survival of the last three wardens in Fereldan is important enough to convince him that it's worth the risk.

In the same way that he won't fight alongside Loghain under any circumstances, he won't let his fellow wardens die if he can prevent it. Both are absolutes in terms of character, no matter how many mixed emotions the decisions may cause.

That being said, I think that to lie to him about it, use coercion, or blackmail him with 'you'd do it if you loved me' isn't moral and denies him the possibility of making an honest choice

I think the fact that it's harder to get him to do it if he's hardened is very telling. He won't refuse unless the Warden back downs, but it doesn't change the fact that he's having to cross several lines he doesn't want to (relationship boundaries, ethical boundaries, and personal boundaries) for something that might not even work. I see it as him compromising himself to ensure that Riordan and the PC have a better chance at survival because it's the only thing that might be done in that situation and he's the only one who can do it. With that sort of pressure, I think he might even be willing to call up Loghain's corpse to help out.

And if you back out at the last minute, even if he knows that it will possibly save you, he is extremely relieved. I think if it was something that he truly felt was above board, he would insist on doing it even if the PC says that she shouldn't have asked. 

See... now I really want to play through that part just to see the convo first hand.  I know from my male playthroughs that Alistair at least thinks Morrigan is beautiful, since he's straight up admitted it when "gossiping" with my warden

I just don't know if I could stand romancing him for that long...

You can convince him even if you are just friends too.  When I did my HNM playthrough and told her "no" she started up with a "what about Alistair" dialogue tree. Since I wanted the US I told her take a hike. So it IS possible just I hate getting Al to do it esp knowing how he feels about intimacy and relationships and Morrigan in general.

When it was all said and done I was glad to see him up and moving about the next day, so obviously however it got done she didn't break my fella.