101 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

JaylaClark wrote...
Okay, is it irrational to read this...

... and think you're putting all femSheps down?  That's what I read, and you can't call me irrational for taking offense to it, it feels like 'maleShep is real, femShep is fake'.

I have 5 FemSheps myself.  What's your point?  There's 1 canon Shepard.  It is Sheploo.  His exact path through the two games is unknown to us, only to BioWare's scriptwriters.

Revan was male.  The Exile was female.  Etc, etc.  Every game has its' own canon playthrough.  The one story that the developers make before they allow for options to deviate it.  I really don't see the problem.  If anything, the statement you quoted is a *positive* thing for you, considering that the Shepard BioWare has created is straight.  FemShep, however, can prove through interactions with 4 characters that she might not be(Liara, Kelly, Samara, Shiala).  You've got more wiggle-room, and are allowed to do more.  I don't see how that's an insult in any way, shape, or form.

[enormousmoonboots]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

You have yet to explain why you care.  There *is* a canonical story.  It's the one they use to write the trilogy from the beginning.  Shepard was an N7 Alliance Marine, got noteworthy, obtained the vision from the Prothean beacon, became the first human Spectre, traveled to Feros, Therum, Noveria, Virmire, and Ilos before stopping Saren/Sovereign on the Citadel. 

He was then killed attempting to save Joker, obtained by the Shadow Broker to be sold to the Collectors and saved by Liara and handed over to Cerberus, who rebuild him.  He then spends an unknown timeframe(weeks, months?) collecting a team to stop the Collectors, and in the process he throws a wrench into their plans on Horizon and evades their trap on board their ship.  He eventually visits a derelict Reaper for an IFF code, the implimentation of which results in his crew being abducted by the Collectors.  Afterwards, he heads through the Omega-4 Relay and stops the Collectors, returning with new data about them.

You've got everything right but 'he'.

[CmdrFenix83]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

You have yet to explain why you care.  There *is* a canonical story.  It's the one they use to write the trilogy from the beginning.  Shepard was an N7 Alliance Marine, got noteworthy, obtained the vision from the Prothean beacon, became the first human Spectre, traveled to Feros, Therum, Noveria, Virmire, and Ilos before stopping Saren/Sovereign on the Citadel. 

He was then killed attempting to save Joker, obtained by the Shadow Broker to be sold to the Collectors and saved by Liara and handed over to Cerberus, who rebuild him.  He then spends an unknown timeframe(weeks, months?) collecting a team to stop the Collectors, and in the process he throws a wrench into their plans on Horizon and evades their trap on board their ship.  He eventually visits a derelict Reaper for an IFF code, the implimentation of which results in his crew being abducted by the Collectors.  Afterwards, he heads through the Omega-4 Relay and stops the Collectors, returning with new data about them.

You've got everything right but 'he'.

Funny that you cut out the paragraph that tells you why BioWare's Shepard = Sheploo.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Umm why is default Shepard "Sheploo"? Sounds like some sort of French shampoo brand.

[CmdrFenix83]

ReconTeam wrote...

Umm why is default Shepard "Sheploo"? Sounds like some sort of French shampoo brand.

It's a dumb name people have given to the default Shepard.  Something to do with the name Vanderloo or something.  Not sure if it was the name given to the Shepard, the dev that made him, or the real life person Shepard was modeled after.  But somewhere someone combined them, and it stuck as the name for the default Shepard in-game.

[JaylaClark]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
Okay, is it irrational to read this...

... and think you're putting all femSheps down?  That's what I read, and you can't call me irrational for taking offense to it, it feels like 'maleShep is real, femShep is fake'.

I have 5 FemSheps myself.  What's your point?  There's 1 canon Shepard.  It is Sheploo.  His exact path through the two games is unknown to us, only to BioWare's scriptwriters.

Revan was male.  The Exile was female.  Etc, etc.  Every game has its' own canon playthrough.  The one story that the developers make before they allow for options to deviate it.  I really don't see the problem.  If anything, the statement you quoted is a *positive* thing for you, considering that the Shepard BioWare has created is straight.  FemShep, however, can prove through interactions with 4 characters that she might not be(Liara, Kelly, Samara, Shiala).  You've got more wiggle-room, and are allowed to do more.  I don't see how that's an insult in any way, shape, or form.

You're still having trouble seeing my point, though.  You didn't say that about nonSheploos, you said that about femSheps.

Plus, like that post you snipped states, you're wrong.  Not subjectively wrong but objectively wrong.  I am not insulting you by saying this, I am just stating a fact.  A representative of BioWare has stated that canon == your own playthrough.  (You're giving someone  crap for snipping a statement that supports you, you're snipping a statement that disagrees with you, hypocrite much?)

[Daurf815]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Umm why is default Shepard "Sheploo"? Sounds like some sort of French shampoo brand.

Vanderloo is who it is modeled after.  European model I think.

Hrm maybe they don't have same sex relations in the ME games because they depict the likeness of a living person and so would need consent?

[Ashwraith]

This thread makes me smile. c:
I particularly like how it seems to have not only derailed, but has violently jumped the tracks and is now careening wildly toward a group of innocent bystanders.
I believe there may be nuns involved.
And schoolchildren.

...All right, that metaphor got away from me a bit. >.>

My point is, was this or was this not supposed to be a discussion about same-gender relationships in ME? We already have a thread going about whether or not FemShep is canon, unless I miss my guess.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 26 mars 2010 - 05:07 .

[Ulicus]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

I have 5 FemSheps myself.  What's your point?  There's 1 canon Shepard.  It is Sheploo.  His exact path through the two games is unknown to us, only to BioWare's scriptwriters.

No, there's one Shepard used to market the game. I happen to use him primarily, but don't start making assertions with no weight behind them. If they ever set every detail of Shepard in stone, then I have no doubt that Sheploo will become the canon Shepard, but he's not it yet -- and when Ascension was released, Drew Karpyshyn said he never would be.

CmdrFenix83 wrote...
Revan was male.  The Exile was female.  Etc, etc.  Every game has its' own canon playthrough.  The one story that the developers make before they allow for options to deviate it.

You realise, of course, that Revan and the Exile were given genders and alignments a fair while after their respective game releases and that this had absolutely nothing to do with the developers and was purely a decision made on Lucas Liscensing's part, right? More specifically, on the part of Leland Chee, their head of continuity.

And KotOR II is an extremely bad example to prove your point, since the Exile used to market KotOR II was male, if you recall, yet the canon Exile was - as you acknowledge - female.

The Star Wars EU required that there be a canonical Revan and Exile. So far, what little there is of the Mass Effect expanded universe does not require there to be a canonical Shepard beyond the basic canon that all iterations of him/her adhere to.

We can tell that there isn't a clearly defined canon Shepard from the way the ME EU has handled him/her so far: every reference to gender? Every reference to decisions made? Skirted over. Completely bypassed. Not a single gender pronoun to refer to Shepard in any of the books or any of the comics.

Contrast this with the Star Wars books, comics and sourcebooks. Revan is referred to as being male over and over again, the Exile is referrred to as "a heroine". You're comparing apples and oranges. Now, maybe one day those apples will become oranges, but it's flat out disingenious to pretend they already are.

Modifié par Ulicus, 26 mars 2010 - 05:08 .

[CmdrFenix83]

JaylaClark wrote...

You're still having trouble seeing my point, though.  You didn't say that about nonSheploos, you said that about femSheps.

Plus, like that post you snipped states, you're wrong.  Not subjectively wrong but objectively wrong.  I am not insulting you by saying this, I am just stating a fact.  A representative of BioWare has stated that canon == your own playthrough.  (You're giving someone  crap for snipping a statement that supports you, you're snipping a statement that disagrees with you, hypocrite much?)

I snipped your post and responded to it, big friggin difference to snipping out what you don't want to deal with.

All Shepards are non-canon except the one BioWare made.  I don't care if you want to use semantics and call it default or canon.  It's the same thing.  Sheploo is Commander Shepard, whether or not you want to admit it, or if it makes your estrogen boil, it's the truth.  To be honest, I don't give a flying **** what your point is.  Sheploo is in the advertisements alone so that when you see him, you immediately think "Shepard".  If you don't like that Shepard, that's your own problem.  Don't blame me because BioWare has stated that they're using this as justification for Shepard being straight.  They said it.  FemShep doesn't adhere to this rule *at all*. 

"Do you get it, or do you need me to draw it for you in crayon, like usual!" - John Cusack in Con-Air(Edit to fix quote)

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 26 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ashwraith wrote...

This thread makes me smile. c:
I particularly like how it seems to have not only derailed, but has violently jumped the tracks and is now careening wildly toward a group of innocent bystanders.
I believe there may be nuns involved.
And schoolchildren.

...All right, that metaphor got away from me a bit. >.>

My point is, was this or was this not supposed to be a discussion about same-gender relationships in ME? We already have a thread going about whether or not FemShep is canon, unless I miss my guess.

"its best to start small"

[Ulicus]

Fenix: You're getting Shepard having certain canon attributes (the "third person" excuse used by BioWare to explain why there's no gay male Sheps) confused with there being an utterly defined and clear canon Shepard. At the moment, that's just nonsense. Again, the way Shepard is handled by the non-game ME media is proof that -- as of yet -- there is no clearly defined canon Shepard. Yes, of course, certain aspects of the character are set in stone (I mean, no ****, right?)... but that doesn't logically entail that all of them are.

Maybe there will be one day. But that day has yet to arrive.

Modifié par Ulicus, 26 mars 2010 - 05:15 .

[Morgalne]

Ok How about this, instead of having new love interests (and I mean new characters that you have to get to know as a LI) why not in ME3 you have the characters that are already love interests and other characters in the game that could be potential love interests.

Examples: Kelly, Samara, Shiala, Ginna (or however you spell that girls name that was undercover in Noveria), Joker, Tali, etc. There are others, but can't think of them right now. What do you think?

[CmdrFenix83]

Ulicus wrote...

You're getting Shepard having certain canon attributes confused with there being an utterly defined and clear canon Shepard. At the moment, that's just nonsense.

BioWare themselves used this as justification for Shepard being straight.  FemShep can be lesbian, bi, or straight.  This states loud and clear that they have a canon version, and that it isn't female.  Just because they didn't publicly come out and give you a step-by-step description of what they believe Shepard to have done, doesn't mean they didn't create one.  They have one.  And it's the reason ManShep is strictly straight.

[Ulicus]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

BioWare themselves used this as justification for Shepard being straight.  FemShep can be lesbian, bi, or straight.  This states loud and clear that they have a canon version, and that it isn't female.  Just because they didn't publicly come out and give you a step-by-step description of what they believe Shepard to have done, doesn't mean they didn't create one.  They have one.  And it's the reason ManShep is strictly straight.

No, this states (which isn't defined as: "implies in my view", as you seem to think) loud and clear that male Shepards are straight and that aspect of MShep is canon. Again, if there was a canon Shepard, we'd see him referenced in the ME EU. Read my first post, as opposed to just my second.

You're jumping to conclusions that aren't entailed. It's silly.

[JaylaClark]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

You're still having trouble seeing my point, though.  You didn't say that about nonSheploos, you said that about femSheps.

Plus, like that post you snipped states, you're wrong.  Not subjectively wrong but objectively wrong.  I am not insulting you by saying this, I am just stating a fact.  A representative of BioWare has stated that canon == your own playthrough.  (You're giving someone  crap for snipping a statement that supports you, you're snipping a statement that disagrees with you, hypocrite much?)

I snipped your post and responded to it, big friggin difference to snipping out what you don't want to deal with.

All Shepards are non-canon except the one BioWare made.  I don't care if you want to use semantics and call it default or canon.  It's the same thing.  Sheploo is Commander Shepard, whether or not you want to admit it, or if it makes your estrogen boil, it's the truth.  To be honest, I don't give a flying **** what your point is.  Sheploo is in the advertisements alone so that when you see him, you immediately think "Shepard".  If you don't like that Shepard, that's your own problem.  Don't blame me because BioWare has stated that they're using this as justification for Shepard being straight.  They said it.  FemShep doesn't adhere to this rule *at all*. 

"Do you get it, or do you need me to draw it for you in crayon, like usual!" - Matthew Brodderick in Con-Air

Emphasis mine, and it's clear you don't.  You're parroting opinion when the facts are established.  Sheploo is not canon because no Shepard is canon.  And you put my Shep down and only put your Shep down as well after the fact.

Though thank you for using apparent profanity in your post, I can report it to Woo easier now.

PS, Matt Broderick wasn't in Con-Air.

[CmdrFenix83]

Ulicus wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

BioWare themselves used this as justification for Shepard being straight.  FemShep can be lesbian, bi, or straight.  This states loud and clear that they have a canon version, and that it isn't female.  Just because they didn't publicly come out and give you a step-by-step description of what they believe Shepard to have done, doesn't mean they didn't create one.  They have one.  And it's the reason ManShep is strictly straight.

No, this states (which isn't defined as: "implies in my view", as you seem to think) loud and clear that male Shepards are straight and that aspect of MShep is canon. Again, if there was a canon Shepard, we'd see him referenced in the ME EU. Read my first post, as opposed to just my second.

You're jumping to conclusions that aren't entailed. It's silly.

They leave it purposefully ambiguous for the sake of the player.  It lets them keep the illusion that their Shepard is in play.  Why stomp on that illusion if Shepard himself is never brought into the picture?

Why would they have specific traits canon if there was no canon Shepard?  That doesn't even make sense, and would be an arbitrary thing made up on the spot just to justify something they had no reason to denounce.  There *is* a canon Shepard, we just don't know anything about him beyond the base story-points that happen to all Shepards, and that he's a straight male.  It's a safe assumption that the Shepard they've used in all the promotional materials(including SHEPARD'S fight for the lost trailer), is who they want people to recognize as Shepard.  They're even putting out Shepard as an action figure with ::gasp:: Sheploo's appearance!

[CmdrFenix83]

JaylaClark wrote...
Emphasis mine, and it's clear you don't.  You're parroting opinion when the facts are established.  Sheploo is not canon because no Shepard is canon.  And you put my Shep down and only put your Shep down as well after the fact.

Though thank you for using apparent profanity in your post, I can report it to Woo easier now.

PS, Matt Broderick wasn't in [/i][i]Con-Air.

Why is it an insult to you?  This is the part that makes no sense.  It's not an insult to me that my Shepards aren't canon.  I know they aren't.  Just like I knew my Revan's weren't, or any other RPG character I've played.  Why are you taking that so personal.  It's like I assaulted your family or something.

Edit: And you're correct about the quote.  I always get the two confused.  Quote has been fixed.

It's amazing how hostile some people can get over something so obvious and retarded.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 26 mars 2010 - 05:40 .

[JaylaClark]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
Emphasis mine, and it's clear you don't.  You're parroting opinion when the facts are established.  Sheploo is not canon because no Shepard is canon.  And you put my Shep down and only put your Shep down as well after the fact.

Though thank you for using apparent profanity in your post, I can report it to Woo easier now.

PS, Matt Broderick wasn't in [/i]Con-Air.

Why is it an insult to you?  This is the part that makes no sense.  It's not an insult to me that my Shepards aren't canon.  I know they aren't.  Just like I knew my Revan's weren't, or any other RPG character I've played.  Why are you taking that so personal.  It's like I assaulted your family or something.

Edit: And you're correct about the quote.  I always get the two confused.  Quote has been fixed.

... I'm just stuck on your one-sentence dismissal, and ... seriously, how many canon male characters do YOU have to talk about?  I've got Samus, Lara and the Exile.  Aka a featureless mech-suit, fanservice personified, and someone who doesn't even have her own name.  So when I read that one sentence I'm seeing someone tell me 'your game doesn't count'.  Plus you didn't say 'neither does mine' until your second post.  So my original call was not you assaulting my family.  (Just me, my mom, my sister, dot dot dot...)  And sorry if you didn't mean it that way, but I've occasionally gotten in trouble for people taking my words and making them into an insult in their heads[i] ... I'm assuming you were on the receiving end of that from my end, this time.

But this is, or at least was, getting actively personal.  I'll agree that you didn't mean to insult me and my Shepards, and apologize for sliding off the slippery slope myself, and agree to disagree.

[CmdrFenix83]

JaylaClark wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
Emphasis mine, and it's clear you don't.  You're parroting opinion when the facts are established.  Sheploo is not canon because no Shepard is canon.  And you put my Shep down and only put your Shep down as well after the fact.

Though thank you for using apparent profanity in your post, I can report it to Woo easier now.

PS, Matt Broderick wasn't in [/i]Con-Air.

Why is it an insult to you?  This is the part that makes no sense.  It's not an insult to me that my Shepards aren't canon.  I know they aren't.  Just like I knew my Revan's weren't, or any other RPG character I've played.  Why are you taking that so personal.  It's like I assaulted your family or something.

Edit: And you're correct about the quote.  I always get the two confused.  Quote has been fixed.

... I'm just stuck on your one-sentence dismissal, and ... seriously, how many canon male characters do YOU have to talk about?  I've got Samus, Lara and the Exile.  Aka a featureless mech-suit, fanservice personified, and someone who doesn't even have her own name.  So when I read that one sentence I'm seeing someone tell me 'your game doesn't count'.  Plus you didn't say 'neither does mine' until your second post.  So my original call was not you assaulting my family.  (Just me, my mom, my sister, dot dot dot...)  And sorry if you didn't mean it that way, but I've occasionally gotten in trouble for people taking my words and making them into an insult in their heads[i] ... I'm assuming you were on the receiving end of that from my end, this time.

But this is, or at least was, getting actively personal.  I'll agree that you didn't mean to insult me and my Shepards, and apologize for sliding off the slippery slope myself, and agree to disagree.

I'm not a misogynist.  I have a wonderful gf that gets treated like a princess(not even going to mention my nickname for her), and I don't know if that's the vibe you got from my first post.  The only point of it was to state that FemSheps get more wiggle-room story wise than ManShep does.  I generally play female characters most of the time myself.  As stated, I have 5 femSheps, and only had one ManShep before ME2 came out and I actually liked the available romances.  I simply didn't understand how that first post could be taken as an insult.  To be honest, I thought it was a positive thing.

Yes, this definitely got out of hand, and I'll reciprocate the apoloy there.  Just because our Shepard's aren't what BioWare has in their minds, doesn't make them any less *our* Shepards, nor any less important.

[ladyshara]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

This thread makes me smile. c:
I particularly like how it seems to have not only derailed, but has violently jumped the tracks and is now careening wildly toward a group of innocent bystanders.
I believe there may be nuns involved.
And schoolchildren.

...All right, that metaphor got away from me a bit. >.>

My point is, was this or was this not supposed to be a discussion about same-gender relationships in ME? We already have a thread going about whether or not FemShep is canon, unless I miss my guess.

I think you are correct.  I believe it is about s/s romances that are in ME1 and I guess ME2 that are accesible through using a mod.  Femshep can romance Ash and import into ME2 and MaleShep can romance Kaiden and imort into ME2.  I am just not sure yet what else the op is wanting to discuss.  I think I know, but I don't want to jump the gun.

I took it as a "Hey, lookie at this spiffy mod" type thing. And then it went to a bad place.

So.... how 'bout those youtube videos? Eh? Eh? Anyone else wish the actors had recorder all the parts in the second one too so we could do the same thing?

[Badpie]

I thoroughly enjoy those videos. And I think it would have been really interesting to implement from the beginning. Not sure about changing those characters now, but I'm sill a supporter of the same sex stuff for both males and females.



I also have to admit I'm a straight gal who found that Shep/Kaidan video REALLY hot.