156 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Xaijin wrote...

Except he didn't enter from space, and was wearing the appropriate equipment. As we can see from Legion, Shepard's suit had ... issues.

Best reasoning I can think of:

-The Normandy was already on its way crashing into the planet (we don't know how high or low Shepard was at that point, since there are no Earth-like clouds to compare it)
-Shepard's N7 armor could have built-in parachutes - and we already know N7 armor protects against temperature and pressure
-Shepard's suit cracked upon entering the planet and basically fell apart once his body was retrieved, leaving the helmet (for Shepard to find) and the shoulderplate (for Legion to find)

Whether he fell or entered orbit, we all know his brain survived somehow.

Modifié par Ecael, 26 mars 2010 - 04:33 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Its Dead Head Fred all over again

[GuardianAngel470]

Nerivant wrote...

I just realized that this is a thread about physics, about a game in which the very name describes the ability to **** up the laws of physics. The ability that the entire series is centered on.

Mind-boggling, really.

Hey, there is an expanation for that. It's called dark energy.  Since we know so little about it we get to make up all sorts of crap and say it's plausible.  That's what sci-fis are all about, toying with the unknown.

[Xaijin]

Even so, he's still going to equalize at terminal, and he has no elevator surfaces to facilitate any kind of stall during drafting . Much better that he simply never entered orbit in the first place, though his helmet was presumably still attached to his head after he lost consciousness.

[InvaderErl]

The helmet may have been a spare on the Normandy. *shrugs.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 26 mars 2010 - 04:36 .

[Ecael]

Xaijin wrote...

Even so, he's still going to equalize at terminal, and he has no elevator surfaces to facilitate any kind of stall during drafting . Much better that he simply never entered orbit in the first place, though his helmet was presumably still attached to his head after he lost consciousness.

Well, the helmet was a little too conveniently placed at the crash site:wizard:

[GuardianAngel470]

Nerivant wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Perhaps that planet did not have the kind of atmosphere that earth has? I assume that not all planet atmospheres are created equal though I did think the same thing as the original poster 1st time through.

I think they also kind of did a bit of a tribute to 2001 a space odyessy in that scene as Shepard thrashes around grabbing for his air line much like Frank Pool did when HAL killed him.

They density of the atmosphere is irrelevant.  If you are saying the composition of the atmosphere is more prone to ignition then you have a point, it may be.  But if not then terminal velocity is terminal velocity, variable depending on the density of the atmosphere if the speed changes then so does the ignition point.

Depends more on gravity, which you can see from the scan.

It's a give and take relationship.  Gravity wants to keep accelerating an object but the density of the air determines how fast an object can move.  I guess I left the gravity part unsaid when I shouldn't have.

Never rule out updrafts.
Atmospheres can be very, very turbulent.

True, but if we went into that much detail we would have to include the fact that the air is less dense in the upper atmosphere and how the atmosphere isn't one uniform density but consistent of pockets of denser air and pockets of less dense air, and we would also have to factor in temperature and its effects on density, and we really don't need to go into all that.  This is purely an acedemic discussion.
I also don't know the necessary physics to compute the information, so we'll just keep it simple.

[Xaijin]

Indeed.



It was the them



A BLOCK OF WOOD!

[implodinggoat]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Perhaps that planet did not have the kind of atmosphere that earth has? I assume that not all planet atmospheres are created equal though I did think the same thing as the original poster 1st time through.

I think they also kind of did a bit of a tribute to 2001 a space odyessy in that scene as Shepard thrashes around grabbing for his air line much like Frank Pool did when HAL killed him.

They density of the atmosphere is irrelevant.  If you are saying the composition of the atmosphere is more prone to ignition then you have a point, it may be.  But if not then terminal velocity is terminal velocity, variable depending on the density of the atmosphere if the speed changes then so does the ignition point.

Depends more on gravity, which you can see from the scan.

It's a give and take relationship.  Gravity wants to keep accelerating an object but the density of the air determines how fast an object can move.  I guess I left the gravity part unsaid when I shouldn't have.

Shepard was quite far from the planet when he was blown out of the Normandy.  So the whole time he was drifting towards the planet gravity would be accelerating his entry speed through a vacuum (hence no atmospheric friction to slow his acceleration down) meaning that he would likely be traveling at a very high speed before he entered the atmosphere.   If the density of the atmosphere weren't sufficient to slow his descent then his body would be splattered across a square mile upon impact and if it were nearly all of the momentum would be converted into heat by atmospheric friction and he would be incinerated.

In either case the damage to his brain would be sufficient to prevent the reconstruction of his memory and personality.   If Shepard's body did enter the atmosphere then the "Shepard" in ME2 is really just a Cerberus construct with artifical memories.   That seems unlikely though since the Redemption comic demonstrates that Cerberus went to considerable lengths to retrieve Shepard's body.   So either the real Shepard is a smear on the surface of some backwoods planet and your character in ME2 is in reality Shepard V 2.0 or his body never entered the atmosphere, take your pick.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 26 mars 2010 - 04:42 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Nerivant wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

I just realized that this is a thread about physics, about a game in which the very name describes the ability to **** up the laws of physics. The ability that the entire series is centered on.

Mind-boggling, really.

Hey, there is an expanation for that. It's called dark energy.  Since we know so little about it we get to make up all sorts of crap and say it's plausible.  That's what sci-fis are all about, toying with the unknown.

You don't question the futility of arguing about the physics in a game, where, to the casual obsever, the laws of physics mean ****?

Are you a casual observer? Are any of the people here casual observers?  I honestly don't think so, I think we are all sci-fi fans talking about a work of fiction and its established physics in order to entertain ourselves.  If you wanted to talk about real physics you could go to scientific forum.  This isn't a scientific forum, and thus we can talk about the fake physics of a work of fiction all day long if we want.  Which, consequently, is exactly what we are doing.

[Xaijin]

aye. I'll go with the they dropped his helmet into orbit during NOO recovery, because if he hit atmo anywhere in that process there's going to be very little left.

[Ecael]

Nerivant wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Nerivant wrote...

I just realized that this is a thread about physics, about a game in which the very name describes the ability to **** up the laws of physics. The ability that the entire series is centered on.

Mind-boggling, really.

Hey, there is an expanation for that. It's called dark energy.  Since we know so little about it we get to make up all sorts of crap and say it's plausible.  That's what sci-fis are all about, toying with the unknown.

You don't question the futility of arguing about the physics in a game, where, to the casual obsever, the laws of physics mean ****?

Well, the writers to try to keep it somewhat believeable, in terms of "if human civilization advances this far enough, this could possibly happen". Michio Kaku wrote a book called Physics of the Impossible that essentially describes those far-fetched science fiction technologies and if humans are capable of developing something similar to it (and how or what is required to do it).

[JamieCOTC]

The Shadow Broker was waiting and collected the body before it burned up. Then he turned around and shipped it off-world to turn around and give it back to the Collectors at a later date ... even though they had every opportunity to pick up the body after they destroyed the ship. Does that make sense? No? Oh well.

[Xaijin]

Seeing as N7 can't stop a Carnifex round, it's not going to do jack to alleviate a terminal free fall impact.

[implodinggoat]

Nerivant wrote...

Until we know the exact specifications of his N7 armor, we will have no idea what sort of damage re-entry would have done.

Hell, if he went in wearing Colossus X, he would have survived.

The armor is less an issue than the body within, which is still composed of fragile flesh and would have to survive all the momentum of his reentry being suddenly stopped as he hit the surface.  The armor might be intact; but it would be filled with Shepard goo.

The only way around this would be if the planet's atmosphere were extremely dense and would thus slow his descent to a speed which wouldn't destroy his brain and that his armor had sufficient thermal resistance to keep his body from being incinerated.   However since the armor was punctured the thermal energy could enter the suit and would thus incinerate the body inside the suit.

So the suit would be filled with ashes or goo, take your pick.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 26 mars 2010 - 04:48 .

[Ecael]

implodinggoat wrote...

Shepard was quite far from the planet when he was blown out of the Normandy.  So the whole time he was drifting towards the planet gravity would be accelerating his entry speed meaning that he would likely be traveling at a very high speed before he entered the atmosphere.   If the density of the atmosphere weren't sufficient to slow his descent then his body would be splattered across a square mile upon impact and if it were nearly all of the momentum would be converted into heat by atmospheric friction and he would be incinerated.

In either case the damage to his brain would be sufficient to prevent the reconstruction of his memory and personality.   If Shepard's body did enter the atmosphere then the "Shepard" in ME2 is really just a Cerberus construct with artifical memories.   That seems unlikely though since the Redemption comic demonstrates that Cerberus went to considerable lengths to retrieve Shepard's body.   So either the real Shepard is a smear on the surface of some backwoods planet and your character in ME2 is in reality Shepard V 2.0 or his body never entered the atmosphere, take your pick.

I'd be all for saying that Shepard never entered the atmosphere - however, we need to explain why the N7 helmet was found so close to the crash site (and why Shepard's shoulderplate was too) only to remain somewhat intact.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ecael wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Shepard was quite far from the planet when he was blown out of the Normandy.  So the whole time he was drifting towards the planet gravity would be accelerating his entry speed meaning that he would likely be traveling at a very high speed before he entered the atmosphere.   If the density of the atmosphere weren't sufficient to slow his descent then his body would be splattered across a square mile upon impact and if it were nearly all of the momentum would be converted into heat by atmospheric friction and he would be incinerated.

In either case the damage to his brain would be sufficient to prevent the reconstruction of his memory and personality.   If Shepard's body did enter the atmosphere then the "Shepard" in ME2 is really just a Cerberus construct with artifical memories.   That seems unlikely though since the Redemption comic demonstrates that Cerberus went to considerable lengths to retrieve Shepard's body.   So either the real Shepard is a smear on the surface of some backwoods planet and your character in ME2 is in reality Shepard V 2.0 or his body never entered the atmosphere, take your pick.

I'd be all for saying that Shepard never entered the atmosphere - however, we need to explain why the N7 helmet was found so close to the crash site (and why Shepard's shoulderplate was too) only to remain somewhat intact.

Planted there so the alliance assumed Shepard was dead

[InvaderErl]

Like I said, presumably Shepard would have a spare helmet on board the ship.



That or Ninjas.