89 réponses à ce sujet

[Dudebag]

As gamers we are blessed with many genres in gaming, from FPS to RTS there is a game to suit everyones tastes, but as of late those who would call them RPG gamers seem to have a false sense of superiority and make bold claims that eceryone who plays FPS games are 13 year old kids and that FPS games take no skill and that they, the RPG fans are superior because they play games they claim take more intelligence and skill to beat, but is this really true?

Now first off let me start by saying that I am a gamer unrestricted by genre, I will play any game of any genre provided that the game looks good, but now with the attacks from RPG fans against the FPS fans I feel I must investigate the validity of such bold claims.

First off lets have a look at the transition from ME1 to ME2.

Sure I know that it is probably a bit late for this and the arguments have died down but I am afraid this was the source of a lot of the attacks from RPG fans against FPS fans. When Mass Effect came out it was praised highly by RPG fans dispite the gameplay and mission design being in shambles, sure the story was ok (not quite as good as the fans would make out however) but the rest of the game was horrible. Then along comes Mass Effect 2, it fixed a lot of the gameplay and mission design problems and while it isnt the finest example of third person shooter it was a lot better than Mass Effect 1. You would think that the fans would praise the game for improving on the gameplay from Mass Effect 1 but instead they did the opposite, they instead chose to criticize the game for getting rid of what they percieved as depth and making them have to use cover and aim. Now I dont know about you guys but I wouldnt call having to buy or find an upgraded version of the same gun or armour depth, In fact I am going to say that it was the RPG elements of the first game that simplified the game to begin with, the combat pretty much relied on stats over skill, the enemy AI was so terrible it was impossible to use tactics and in the end battles come down to you and your fire your guns at each other and the one whos gun does the most damage and whoever has the most health wins, the game even had an auto aim option so that the RPG diddnt have to strain himself trying to aim at his enemy.

When it comes down to it RPG players complained about Mass Effect 2 because it forced them to use skills instead of allowing them to effortlessly complete the game.

But I see your still not convinced, lets have a look at one RPG series that many RPG fans consider to be one of the best RPG series of all time, Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy has to be the ultimate in simple games, you select your character then you select your attack and then the monster take damage, repeat process until monster dies. Now one would think that the Final Fantasy games were simple enough as they were and that they could not get any simpler, well if you were thinking that then you thought wrong, Square Enix took Final Fantasy XIII to a new level of simplicity. Because controlling many characters at once can be a daunting task for your average Final Fantasy fan Square Enix decided to make it simpler and only had the player controling one player and the rest of your squad is controlled by computer, not only that but to keep the player from getting confused when exploring the map they only made it possible to go in 2 directions, forwards and backwards.

Even looking at online RPGs we see just how simple the genre is, combat is nothing but the player pressing buttons to perform skills and performing those skills in a pattern till the battle is won and the victor is usually decided by who has the better stats and gear.

Lets face it the RPG is incredibly simple, sure the RPG fans might try to delude themselves to this fact but then that is mostly because they are idiots.

[Phil5000]

I like boobies!

[RaoulG4668]

 The title kills your entire post, because a lot of this entire forum is full of extremely intelligent people.

Therefore, I shall not read it and will instead declare it invalid. Good day to you sir!  

[Beetgreen]

I agree with this thread. RPG fans find satisfaction in finding new, more powerful items as a means towards completing a game. People who preferred Mass Effect 2 found using skill as a means of overcoming a challenge more rewarding.

Modifié par Beetgreen, 26 mars 2010 - 10:48 .

[Ponce de Leon]

I like complex RPGs... where you have like 560 different skill each very important for your survival and what-not? I myself cannot describe myself as an RPG player, simply because I haven't played RPGs as much as the other styles. For example, strategy games, I played them for some 5 times more than RPGs. I spent over 250 hours playing that god forsaken Anno 1701, and stopped ONLY because my PC went puff. As for WHY I play RPGs... well, not to achieve goals, but rather because gaming is like observing a work of art. Game development itself IS a work of art. And if I am not forced to learn art, then I enjoy looking at architectural marvels or whatelse.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Are people with no registered games trolls?



Blah blah bah for multiple paragraphs spuriously mentioning some trolls with no registered games.



Another paragraph that lumps everyone in together based on a stupid assumption.



Summation.



Lets face it, people without registered games are trolls.

[VampireCommando]

I'd like to see a COD fanatic pick up a mouse and keyboard and go through DA without having any questions about anything and able to play it just as easly as any of us. Because it just wouldn't happen ^^

And i have a masters degree, but because i play RPG's that makes me stupid. . . i think not,

Modifié par VampireCommando, 26 mars 2010 - 12:09 .

[Beetgreen]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Are people with no registered games trolls?

Blah blah bah for multiple paragraphs spuriously mentioning some trolls with no registered games.

Another paragraph that lumps everyone in together based on a stupid assumption.

Summation.

Lets face it, people without registered games are trolls.

The name calling was a bit trolling, but insults aside I think the original poster made a legitimate point.  Mass Effect 2 has vastly superior gameplay to Mass Effect 1.
The shooting mechanics are improved(no auto-aim, and it actually matters where you hit your enemies), and the AI is superior.  The player can no longer rely on weapons and upgrades to win the battles.
I think some players get a sense of satisfaction in finding new loot which allows them to overcome obstacles while others prefer skill and tight reflexes.

Modifié par Beetgreen, 26 mars 2010 - 11:47 .

[Kenrae]

Dudebag wrote...
But I see your still not convinced, lets have a look at one RPG series that many RPG fans consider to be one of the best RPG series of all time, Final Fantasy.

You know, I kinda agree with many of your points. But this sentence... JRPGs are regarded as very simple RPGs. Not necessarily worse for that, that's a matter of taste. I mean, Tetris is simple, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game. But, they are simpler. Maybe you should take Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age, but then your argument wouldn't stand a chance against those examples .

You're also "subsetting" skills. Just because a game doesn't require physical skills it doesn't mean it doesn't require any skils at all. To use another genre as an example, there are many non-real time strategy games that are very difficult to beat, but they don't require you to be fast with your mouse and aim true. They require skills, just a different sort of skills.

Mass Effect has always been a mix of shooter and RPG, on both versions. On ME2 they've improved the gameplay and the AI, and increased the difficulty, which was really needed. I have no problem with that, actually, I prefer ME2 than ME1 and I loved ME1. While RPGs is the type of game I play most, I enjoy other genres too, so I don't have any problem with mixing. Other people are fanboys of a genre, well, to each his own. And yes, some of these people can be really annoying on forums, I just ignore them.

[Khayness]

Dudebag wrote...

Even looking at online RPGs we see just how simple the genre is, combat is nothing but the player pressing buttons to perform skills and performing those skills in a pattern till the battle is won and the victor is usually decided by who has the better stats and gear.

Read some TheoryCrafting about how to increase your efficency with your current stats and gear. Not so stupid.

Also here is this:

[HoonDing]

I guess I'm an idiot. But I wouldn't generalize, really.

[Rzepik2]

Dudebag wrote...

But I see your still not convinced, lets have a look at one RPG series that many RPG fans consider to be one of the best RPG series of all time, Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy has to be the ultimate in simple games, you select your character then you select your attack and then the monster take damage, repeat process until monster dies. Now one would think that the Final Fantasy games were simple enough as they were and that they could not get any simpler, well if you were thinking that then you thought wrong, Square Enix took Final Fantasy XIII to a new level of simplicity. Because controlling many characters at once can be a daunting task for your average Final Fantasy fan Square Enix decided to make it simpler and only had the player controling one player and the rest of your squad is controlled by computer, not only that but to keep the player from getting confused when exploring the map they only made it possible to go in 2 directions, forwards and backwards.

Final fantasy? An RPG? It's not even a cRPG!
Before starting any discussion I would like to know - have you ever played a real cRPG?

Modifié par Rzepik2, 26 mars 2010 - 01:44 .

[Kenrae]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Dudebag wrote...

But I see your still not convinced, lets have a look at one RPG series that many RPG fans consider to be one of the best RPG series of all time, Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy has to be the ultimate in simple games, you select your character then you select your attack and then the monster take damage, repeat process until monster dies. Now one would think that the Final Fantasy games were simple enough as they were and that they could not get any simpler, well if you were thinking that then you thought wrong, Square Enix took Final Fantasy XIII to a new level of simplicity. Because controlling many characters at once can be a daunting task for your average Final Fantasy fan Square Enix decided to make it simpler and only had the player controling one player and the rest of your squad is controlled by computer, not only that but to keep the player from getting confused when exploring the map they only made it possible to go in 2 directions, forwards and backwards.

Final fantasy? An RPG? It's not even a cRPG!
Before starting any discussion I would like to know - have you ever played a real cRPG?

Please, don't give him arguments...

[FutureBoy81]

*** ***

Modifié par FutureBoy81, 26 mars 2010 - 01:04 .

[ImperialOperative]

I don't know any RPG fans that like Final Fantasy.

[jsachun]

If rpg is simple, what does that make fps? games for simpleton?

[Beetgreen]

ImperialOperative wrote...

I don't know any RPG fans that like Final Fantasy.

I liked the games when I was a kid because frankly they were good for their time.  The series has refused to evolve and in many ways has even taken stesp back from the earlier titles.

I feel no sense of adventure playing Final Fantasy XIII.  Everything is completely linear, I have no say in the direction of the story and the world just doesn't feel alive.  Very dissapointing game.  I was hoping to embark on a great quest rather than sit through an interactive movie,

[Quixal]

Many folks tend to talk down to those who don't share their tastes. It seems the OP is enthusiastically guilty of the very type of behavior he rails against.



I will shut up now lest I become guilty of same.

[AshedMan]

No. Any group of people will have it's share of idiots, but to claim the entire group/culture is represented by those few is a false claim.

[Daewan]

RPG skills that are transferable to the real world: Problem solving. Problem identification. Basic math. Complex pattern recognition. Basic social interaction. Patience.

FPS skills that are transferable to the real world: Eye-hand coordination. Fine motor control.

Hrm.... which set of idiots do you think is more employable?

[MerinTB]

PontiusPilate wrote...

i must be an idiot than, because i thought final fantasy was turn based RPG...'could be wrong..reading up there from the guy who said it wasn't, i am wrong i guess ;|..

It hasn't been turn based (for the most part) since 7.

Tactics and Tactics Advanced were turn-based.

I'm feeling like a broken record on this one.

Turn based = each player (or character) gets an uninterrupted turn in which no one else can take a turn until that player is done
Real time= combat is continuous based on a clock that doesn't pause for any one player - each participant (player or NPC or monster) acts simultaneously.

ATB uses a clock that runs constantly, and any character or monster can attack at any time without having to wait for a different character to have gone.

Having charging bars for abilities does not mean turn based.  Combat relying on the stats of the characters instead of the twitch skills and button mashing of the player does not mean turn based.

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I understand I'm fighting a losing battle here - most don't seem to care what words mean as long as they can use them to attack things they don't like.