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[mousestalker]

 The first time I played DA:O I was actually impressed by him, but I now know why the Orlesian Wardens sent him. It isn't because he is from Ferelden (he has a funny accent after all, so a lot of good that's going to do). It's because he's a screw up.

He gets captured because he believes Howe. The dude is a rogue and he drinks poison. He believes a nobleman that no one in Ferelden trusts, other than the Couslands (look what that got them). Instead of asking around he gets tricked by the regent's spymaster.

Next, he then withholds important information when he meets the remaining two Gray Wardens in Howe's palace. That may be excusable because of weakness from harsh treatment. But if you ask him if he can make new Gray Wardens he replies that he can't as all the archdemon blood has vanished.

He then pops up at Landsmeet and bigfoots your power play. All of a sudden Loghain can be made a Gray Warden, which was impossible earlier. Leaving you with choosing between having Alistair in and Loghain dead or Loghain in and Alistair sulking.

Being politically naive is no crime. But a Warden of his experience should know that he is proceeding with little or no intelligence and should at least attempt to gather some and learn the lay of the land and who the players are. When he pops up with his magically appearing archdemon blood he has made no attempt to learn anything about the other two Grey Wardens. None.

I really can not think of any suggestion or idea that he makes or has that is a good one. Riordan is a fathead with really great hair, sexy voice and scruffy beard. Even his idea about taking Alistair never ends well if you're a female Warden in a romance with the Alistair.

As for how he dies, well +10 for style, but -100 on sense. No warrior or rogue fights in game with just one blade. You either fight with two or with sword and shield. If I'm playing 'climb the dragon' I think I'd want two blades for better holding. Riordan is the worst sort of incompetent. A man whose appearance and history predispose you to like and trust him, while being eminently untrustworthy.

I just wish there were some way to leave him in his cell.

[Ponce de Leon]

I laughed so hard at his response when I said "Impressive moves for an old man!"

Still, he's a maniac in his final battle. No sane man would jump on the head of a dragon attempting to stab and kill it. I mean, EVEN if you have a chance of killing mr. Demon A., what's the chance you survive the fall WITH the archie AND the spirit gets in your body? Ah well, I guess he spent some time smoking lyrium when he was younger or something...

[Lucy Glitter]

TELL ME WHAT HE SAID IN REPLY DARKY!

[Sabriana]

I agree on him not being forthcoming with information. He should know that the PC warden was a GW for a few hours, and that Alistair was one for 6 month before Duncan bit the dust. The first (or one of the first) question he should have asked is "How much do you know about the GWs, the Blight, and the archdemon?"

However, I also find it a bit strange that Duncan never mentioned the archdemon deal to Alistair. He's had 6 month to spit that VERY important information out, but neglected to do that.



Being captured by Howe was a bit silly, I agree on that too. Given his age, he should have been more careful, especially when dealing with Ferelden nobility, and him coming out of Orlais. No matter what his nationality, simply traveling from Orlais should make anyone careful, considering the bad and bitter history the two nations have.



As for the ritual, I think it is mentioned that Loghain seized Riordan's blood supply, and upon Loghain's defeat it becomes once again available to the GWs.



His death is spectacular, but stupid, true enough. You are right, jumping onto a flying dragon with one sword is unworthy of a rogue who is also a Grey Warden. Well, at least he managed to gimp the beast for my PC and her trusty misfits.

[MutantSpleen]

You have to give him props for the dragon jump move. Just think if he had pulled that off we all would have looked like rookies. Still he did manage to get the thing to land, which I was wondering just how we were going to pull that off.

[nos_astra]

Sabriana wrote...
As for the ritual, I think it is mentioned that Loghain seized Riordan's blood supply, and upon Loghain's defeat it becomes once again available to the GWs.

Considering that Riordan had no time to speak to Loghain until he yields at the Landsmeet it's quite optimistic of him to assume that it has not been destroyed.

[Sabriana]

klarabella wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
As for the ritual, I think it is mentioned that Loghain seized Riordan's blood supply, and upon Loghain's defeat it becomes once again available to the GWs.

Considering that Riordan had no time to speak to Loghain until he yields at the Landsmeet it's quite optimistic of him to assume that it has not been destroyed.

yeah Klarabella, I agree. I'm just reaching to find at least something that was done right by Riordan. Perhaps he just assumed that it wasn't destroyed. Iirc, Riordan assumes a lot, but is really bad at it.

[nranola]

I agree, the jumping on the dragon was a bit... stupid. I facepalmed the moment I saw it. But I guess he was trying to disable the wings so the rest have a better chance at taking the Archdemon down later on, so props to him for that.



As for him getting caught... it's either he's as incompetent as you say, or Howe is really good at manipulating people. Or both? 8D

[Xandurpein]

Without Riordan jumping onto the dragon the dragon how would we even have managed kill it. He brought the thing down to ground level. The idea that he should jump on to the dragon with one blade in each hand is not very convincing either, I mean wasn't it smarter that he kept one hand free to hang on with?

Obviously Riordan was resigned to die when the battle begun. He as much as told you that he thought it was his duty to kill the Archdemon himself as the oldest present Warden. I doubt he cared much about his own security when he lept at the Archdemon, he intended to die seconds after the Archdemon died anyway.

[MutantSpleen]

Well in his defense he thought no one would know who he was. Its not like he is a common face in Ferelden, he lives in Orlais. Plus the Orlesian Wardens did not have any good intel about what was really going on in Ferelden. Howe duped him with feigned civility and charity. Just like he did to Bryce, a man he had known for 30 years! So give poor Riordan a break.

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 26 mars 2010 - 12:24 .

[Sabriana]

No, not really, Xandurpein. Remember how Duncan used one of his blades to keep a steady hold on the alpha ogre? There isn't really much natural handhold on dragons, a blade might have made the difference. His idea was definitely to kill the archdemon, but he seemed to fail in considering that the beast wouldn't simply hold still for that. It's a given that it would maneuver to shake the cowboy-warden off. He should have brought a mage or two, or even some rangers with him to ground the dragon first before trying to kill it.



His last attempt to at least gimp the dragon was quick thinking in the face of certain death, and made it so much easier for the PC and her allies to strike the final blow. Else they would have to rely on ranged attacks to gimp it themselves before being able to ground it. That would have cost precious time, and possibly a lot of lives.

[Xandurpein]

Sabriana wrote...

No, not really, Xandurpein. Remember how Duncan used one of his blades to keep a steady hold on the alpha ogre? There isn't really much natural handhold on dragons, a blade might have made the difference.

Fair enough. But given the natural armor on a dragon, maybe a using both hands to gain maximum force in one thrust is a better way to hurt a dragon than a flurry of cuts?

[Behindyounow]

The only thing I have against him is regarding recruiting Loghain. He knows that a Grey Warden has to die to kill the Archdemon and he just stands there and lets you argue with Alistair.



Heres an idea Riordan: Tell Alistair the way an archdemon dies. I'm sure he wouldn't mind recruiting Loghain after that.

[mousestalker]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Well in his defense he thought no one would know who he was. Its not like he is a common face in Ferelden, he lives in Orlais. Plus the Orlesian Wardens did not have any good intel about what was really going on in Ferelden. Howe duped him with feigned civility and charity. Just like he did to Bryce, a man he had known for 30 years! So give poor Riordan a break.

Well, his voice just screams "Hi, I'm an Orlesian". Which if you're in a country that fought a protracted war with Orlais within living memory and is ruled by a regent who is known to have a hatred of all things Orlesian, is a problem.

[MutantSpleen]

Well there are still a lot of Orlesians in Ferelden, its not like they sealed their borders from all Orlesians. Heck Arl Eamon is married to one.

[MutantSpleen]

Behindyounow wrote...

The only thing I have against him is regarding recruiting Loghain. He knows that a Grey Warden has to die to kill the Archdemon and he just stands there and lets you argue with Alistair.

Heres an idea Riordan: Tell Alistair the way an archdemon dies. I'm sure he wouldn't mind recruiting Loghain after that.

Until you ask him later on how to kill the Archdemon he has been assuming Duncan had already told you. He says he would have told you right away if he had known.

[mousestalker]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

The only thing I have against him is regarding recruiting Loghain. He knows that a Grey Warden has to die to kill the Archdemon and he just stands there and lets you argue with Alistair.

Heres an idea Riordan: Tell Alistair the way an archdemon dies. I'm sure he wouldn't mind recruiting Loghain after that.

Which is part of the problem. When you see Riordan for the first time after his imprisonment, you can ask him a lot of questions about the Grey Wardens. Why doesn't Riordan respond with "Tell me what you know about the Gray Wardens, and I'll try to fill in the gaps"? That's the sensible response. If you ask him every possible question the light ought to come on in his head and he should realize that you literally know none of the Gray Warden secrets (the dying at Joining bit seems to be common knowledge known to everyone but you, Daveth and Jory).

Until you ask him later on how to kill the Archdemon he has been assuming Duncan had already told you. He says he would have told you right away if he had known.

[MutantSpleen]

Fine, fine. I am the Orlesian apologist.

Seriously Riordan never bugged me but everyone has an opinion.

[nos_astra]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

The only thing I have against him is regarding recruiting Loghain. He knows that a Grey Warden has to die to kill the Archdemon and he just stands there and lets you argue with Alistair.

Heres an idea Riordan: Tell Alistair the way an archdemon dies. I'm sure he wouldn't mind recruiting Loghain after that.

Until you ask him later on how to kill the Archdemon he has been assuming Duncan had already told you. He says he would have told you right away if he had known.

And the fact that Alistair threatens to leave the Grey Wardens isn't any hint that there might be a piece of information lost on the two junior members of the order? No way to talk around it?

Almost everything Riordan does is strangely convenient for the plot but doesn't make much sense beside that.

Edit: I try to handwave it, of course. I took up on his offer of making Loghain a Grey Warden with my favourite PC.

Modifié par klarabella, 26 mars 2010 - 01:11 .

[Sabriana]

Xandurpein wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

No, not really, Xandurpein. Remember how Duncan used one of his blades to keep a steady hold on the alpha ogre? There isn't really much natural handhold on dragons, a blade might have made the difference.

Fair enough. But given the natural armor on a dragon, maybe a using both hands to gain maximum force in one thrust is a better way to hurt a dragon than a flurry of cuts?

True, fair enough as well.

I guess it boils down to "don't jump a dragon in mid-flight, bring it down first". Iirc, my PC had access to a bunch of mages and superb elven rangers. I don't doubt that she would loan a few handfuls of those to Riordan to range/mage-drop/gimp the archdemon first and foremost. She didn't even use the mages after they wiped out her, the allies, and themselves with their aoe spells, and made me re-load. Those fire-bombs and the other range-magic spells would have been perfect for the dragon.

[MutantSpleen]

klarabella wrote...

Edit: I try to handwave it, of course. I took up on his offer of making Loghain a Grey Warden with my favourite PC.

Me too. Plus Loghain is such a great character,even more so when you get to know him. Plus I can't handle that scene when you execute Loghain and he says "Daughters never grow up Anora, they remain six years old with pigtails and skinned knees forever."

[mousestalker]

MutantSpleen wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Edit: I try to handwave it, of course. I took up on his offer of making Loghain a Grey Warden with my favourite PC.

Me too. Plus Loghain is such a great character,even more so when you get to know him. Plus I can't handle that scene when you execute Loghain and he says "Daughters never grow up Anora, they remain six years old with pigtails and skinned knees forever."

Definitely a 'reach for the hanky' moment there.

[Sabriana]

MutantSpleen wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Edit: I try to handwave it, of course. I took up on his offer of making Loghain a Grey Warden with my favourite PC.

Me too. Plus Loghain is such a great character,even more so when you get to know him. Plus I can't handle that scene when you execute Loghain and he says "Daughters never grow up Anora, they remain six years old with pigtails and skinned knees forever."

Hanky moment indeed, Mousestalker.
I simply can't execute someone who yielded. Personally, I'd rather throw him in the tower or something, but chopping his head off in front of his daughter, splattering her with his blood is impossible for me to do. Like or dislike Anora, but that is simply out of the question.

[LadyDamodred]

I like Riordan, so I forgive him his faults. *shrugs*



I, on the other hand, have absolutely no problem executing Loghain; not with letting Alistair do it or when my CE does it. My more politically minded characters see it as necessary to prevent anyone from still trying to make a fuss. There is no banner for them to rally behind now. It sucks, b/c I think Loghain is all kinds of awesome, but there it is.

[nos_astra]

MutantSpleen wrote...
Me too. Plus Loghain is such a great character,even more so when you get to know him. Plus I can't handle that scene when you execute Loghain and he says "Daughters never grow up Anora, they remain six years old with pigtails and skinned knees forever."

Oh well, my reasons were not nearly as compassionate. I have no problem executing Loghain (technically it's Alistair doing that in my games) but I did it for the drama ending to the Alistair romance. She made Loghain a Grey Warden to show him what a goddamn fool he was and underestimated Alistair's reaction to that.
I wanted to roleplay her that way in Awakening, carrying Maric's sword and a little demon statuette around.
(I wished I could have kept the rose and the runic worry token.)