332 réponses à ce sujet

[WilliamShatner]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I am not too sure Gaider is saying he wants to write less dialogue, because I know he loves his work, and I can imagine he wouldn't mind writing the same amount as Origins, he just sees the old system as open to abuse. You go talk to someone, and they hav the same options each time or some such. Like, I can't quote what he said word for word obviously, but I am pretty sure he didn't intend for it to mean he didn't want to do as much work.

I think it would be cool if you could ask someone different things after every big quest, or somesuch. Along with the interactable objects and the initiated dialogue.

I agree that talking to someone and hearing the same greeting over and over again is a bit tiresome, but the solution to that is to write and record more greetings giving a sense of variation - not cut the out entire ability to talk to people.

[Lucy Glitter]

Neither did I. Why couldn't I just click on him?



That was just... odd.

[Brockololly]

The whole click on an inanimate object to start a conversation thing bugged me. Sometimes it makes sense, like clicking on the painting of Howe's mother and then he talks about his family. But other times, you see a tree or flying boat or sign and you have no clue who is going to start talking or about what. Thats my problem is that it takes agency away from the player.

I know the writers want to get away from the laundry list of questions structure, but IMO the Awakening system on its own is a hindrance to interacting with the characters and I don't think that was Bioware's goal. The dialogue system in Origins wasn't perfect but if they just paced out some of the questions you could ask so you couldn't burn through all at once, that might help.

Oh and back to the whole missing letter shenanigans- what cruel irony is it that Bioware seemingly skimps out on the Zevran and Leliana letters but they start selling Dragon Age letter openers?! (http://social.biowar...4/index/2509174)

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 mai 2010 - 02:58 .

[Lenimph]

Brockololly wrote...


Oh and back to the whole missing letter shenanigans- what cruel irony is it that Bioware seemingly skimps out on the Zevran and Leliana letters but they start selling Dragon Age letter openers?! (http://social.biowar...4/index/2509174)

Those bastards!

[GardenSnake]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I am not too sure Gaider is saying he wants to write less dialogue, because I know he loves his work, and I can imagine he wouldn't mind writing the same amount as Origins, he just sees the old system as open to abuse. You go talk to someone, and they hav the same options each time or some such. Like, I can't quote what he said word for word obviously, but I am pretty sure he didn't intend for it to mean he didn't want to do as much work.

I think it would be cool if you could ask someone different things after every big quest, or somesuch. Along with the interactable objects and the initiated dialogue.

I agree that talking to someone and hearing the same greeting over and over again is a bit tiresome, but the solution to that is to write and record more greetings giving a sense of variation - not cut the out entire ability to talk to people.

I'm with you on that one my cousin. (No seriously, I'm a cousin of the shatman) Gaider obviously has good intentions, but the new system just came off as dumb and half-assed. Does recording a few extra greetings and farewells really cost that much more money? And does taking away some of the dialouge options after you've explored them really that hard to program? If so, I don't care and I could handle it, but if not, then just go with that I say. :happy:

[Lucy Glitter]

Does anyone else reckon it will be like Ultimate Sacrifice? No dev comments on it, one announcement that they trashed that idea in Awakening...



Probably.

[Brockololly]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Does anyone else reckon it will be like Ultimate Sacrifice? No dev comments on it, one announcement that they trashed that idea in Awakening...

Probably.

Apologies for reviving a month dead thread, but I come bearing good news!
http://social.biowar...4/index/2916060

Specifically this part:

Victor Wachter wrote...

• (Awakening only) Players may now receive notes of appreciation from former love interests.

  
Although the "former" love interest part is interesting....I wonder if they changed the original letters maybe?

Modifié par Brockololly, 19 juin 2010 - 12:39 .

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...
Apologies for reviving a month dead thread, but I come bearing good news!
http://social.biowar...4/index/2916060

Specifically this part:

Victor Wachter wrote...

• (Awakening only) Players may now receive notes of appreciation from former love interests.

  
Although the "former" love interest part is interesting....I wonder if they changed the original letters maybe?

I believe it's just context. Former as in the previous game, I doubt it's breakup letters...unless Bioware just wants to see how ugly they can turn the Leliana and Zevran threads into.

[Lucy Glitter]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Victor Wachter wrote...

• (Awakening only) Players may now receive notes of appreciation from former love interests.

You have officially ruined my day life.

I reiterate - my life is ruined.

Also, Brockololly. It isn't good news. It's bad news. It means they didn't cut it out. It means they just intended LIs to be completely absent from Awakenings.

I swear, BioWare. I swear to some kind of God of Murdering... <_<

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 19 juin 2010 - 06:53 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Hmm, I don't see how that would be the case. I mean not to get into semantics but isn't that the point of cutting something out?



Well also look how buggy Awakening is, what would be the chance of this being problematic? I have not tested this myself but how are they implemented within the game?

[Lucy Glitter]

Cutting something out means they either decided to just get rid of it, or they had something else in store. Which the latter was suspected. Like, a DLC with you helping out your LI. Anything with them actually in it.



Putting a letter in is very, very easy. Btw.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I have no doubt that a text document would not be that hard to implement. But how exactly is it implemented? Is it just an item in your inventory or is it something to do with your codex?

EDIT:  Ah I see where you are coming from.  Well not to say that I'm surprised, Awakening seemed pretty much to be left on a raft by itself, I would not expect hardly any content to expand it.  The Leliana DLC gives me hope that they will re-sign those actors, so I would hope for a new expansion rather than putting them in Awakening as Awakening was pretty much one sided in recruiting people to their eventual deaths.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 19 juin 2010 - 07:07 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Someone gives you an item for your inventory, in this case, a letter, that would (I assume) spawn a codex entry.

[Brockololly]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I reiterate - my life is ruined.

Also, Brockololly. It isn't good news. It's bad news. It means they didn't cut it out. It means they just intended LIs to be completely absent from Awakenings.

I swear, BioWare. I swear to some kind of God of Murdering... <_<

I'm sorry Lucy:(

I too would have loved to see the LI's back in some form greater than letters, but its at least something,  right? Its just disappointing like so much else in Awakening. Awakening isn't terrible, but botched opportunities for continuity like the LI's or having your dog or Wynne having amnesia kind of sour the experience for me.

At least you didn't romance Morrigan, Lucy. Unless there is some other bug in Awakening, you get zero acknowledgement of having romanced Morrigan in Origins- and the epilogue slide for her is even buggy.

Hopefully, all the LI's and the Warden will have their glorious return in an ex-pack or sequel or something.....

Modifié par Brockololly, 19 juin 2010 - 12:59 .

[CybAnt1]

I find it weird they're treating the missing/unimplemented letters as a bug.



I sort of viewed them as one of many things that it looks like "we would have finished if we had time but didn't".



As I've said before, it looks like they originally intended the female sergeant outside the Keep to be a full-service postal center, who would originally have lots of letters for you, of which these might be just one set.



I mean ... that is why you ask her "any letters for me?" ... but only once in the game does she answer ... yes.



I think they originally intended that to act as a big continuity bridge between the two games, with letters possibly arriving from another companions, possibly Anora if she was monarch, etc., etc.



But just never got around to implementing it. It just really seems that way to me.



I'm glad they're putting these back into the game ... just find it odd that was given higher priority than solving the Silverite mines bug, though, which from my viewpoint really belongs at the top of the bugfix list. On the other hand, it could also be the hardest to fix, since the precise cause for it remains unknown, at least to players.

[Brockololly]

CybAnt1 wrote...


I think they originally intended that to act as a big continuity bridge between the two games, with letters possibly arriving from another companions, possibly Anora if she was monarch, etc., etc.

But just never got around to implementing it. It just really seems that way to me.

Yeah, I figured it would be sort of like ME2 and the emails. And yet you hardly get anything from the postal mail lady person.

CybAnt1 wrote...

I'm glad they're putting these back into the game ... just find it odd that was given higher priority than solving the Silverite mines bug, though, which from my viewpoint really belongs at the top of the bugfix list. On the other hand, it could also be the hardest to fix, since the precise cause for it remains unknown, at least to players.

I know the big bugs like Silverite Mines are important to fix, but its encouraging to me that they're fixing the other story related bugs too. I really just wish they would update the toolset for Awakening- who knows what else is buggy in there that we don't even know about?

[facialstrokage]

scyphozoa wrote...

I remember Gaider's explanation of the new dialogue mechanics. I understood it as,  while the old system was convenient, it was also tremendously artificial. I don't necessarily think the Awakening mechanic was the best it could be, but I do think the old formula needs to be developed and improved on and that Awakening's dialogue was a step in the right direction to more natural and organic interaction.

The biggest shortcoming I found in Awakening's dialogue is that while the dialogue triggers in the world were great, I still found myself farming dialogue by entering and re-entering the main hall.

Like I said, not perfect, but imo, still a step in the right direction.

I agree. The dialogue is very superficial in Origins. One thing that bothered me was how forced and unnatural the conversations were. For example, you have a conversation and it ends with "now let's go, there are darkspawn waiting to be killed", and you say "sure, that sounds good." And then the next second you initiate another conversation until the character runs out of things to say. I remember coming out of Lothering and just spamming conversations with Leliana and giving her gifts until I had enough approval to bed her (after Marjolaine's quest obviously). Now that's just not something she would do. You two had just met and there's no way she loves you that much. The relationship seemed superficial and systematic. Rather, they should limit the amount of conversations at a time a character can have, like in Mass Effect, where some conversations only trigger after certain missions.

Awakening obviously needs work in the dialogue system. Yes, the clicking on random objects was irrelevant, but I think they are doing something innovative and  I give them credit for it. I personally think they should blend the two system together. Some conversations you can initiate, others are situational. I also think they should incorporate less, but deeper conversations. I don't want to talk with a character for 30 seconds and then have them end it with "let's kill darkspawn" when there's no darkspawn to be killed. I'm very tempted to just start another conversation. If I want to talk with someone, it should be a legitimate conversation. Had they had more elongated conversations, I would feel much more satisfied, and I wouldn't be tempted to rush through more conversations.

Modifié par facialstrokage, 19 juin 2010 - 05:17 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Brockololly wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I reiterate - my life is ruined.

Also, Brockololly. It isn't good news. It's bad news. It means they didn't cut it out. It means they just intended LIs to be completely absent from Awakenings.

I swear, BioWare. I swear to some kind of God of Murdering... <_<

I'm sorry Lucy:(

I too would have loved to see the LI's back in some form greater than letters, but its at least something,  right? Its just disappointing like so much else in Awakening. Awakening isn't terrible, but botched opportunities for continuity like the LI's or having your dog or Wynne having amnesia kind of sour the experience for me.

At least you didn't romance Morrigan, Lucy. Unless there is some other bug in Awakening, you get zero acknowledgement of having romanced Morrigan in Origins- and the epilogue slide for her is even buggy.

Hopefully, all the LI's and the Warden will have their glorious return in an ex-pack or sequel or something.....

It's okay. I will just mope in my room.

I do think that Awakening is a bloody brilliant plot, I love the story, and I do admit some of the companions were great. I think Nathaniel and Justice were great. Most of it felt very rushed, though. The main plot was the only thing that wasn't in my eyes, but I admit it was really great. 

I want another ex-pack. Baaaadly!

facialstrokage wrote...

I agree. The dialogue is very superficial in Origins. One thing that bothered me was how forced and unnatural the conversations were. For example, you have a conversation and it ends with "now let's go, there are darkspawn waiting to be killed", and you say "sure, that sounds good." And then the next second you initiate another conversation until the character runs out of things to say. I remember coming out of Lothering and just spamming conversations with Leliana and giving her gifts until I had enough approval to bed her (after Marjolaine's quest obviously). Now that's just not something she would do. You two had just met and there's no way she loves you that much. The relationship seemed superficial and systematic. Rather, they should limit the amount of conversations at a time a character can have, like in Mass Effect, where some conversations only trigger after certain missions.

Awakening obviously needs work in the dialogue system. Yes, the clicking on random objects was irrelevant, but I think they are doing something innovative and  I give them credit for it. I personally think they should blend the two system together. Some conversations you can initiate, others are situational. I also think they should incorporate less, but deeper conversations. I don't want to talk with a character for 30 seconds and then have them end it with "let's kill darkspawn" when there's no darkspawn to be killed. I'm very tempted to just start another conversation. If I want to talk with someone, it should be a legitimate conversation. Had they had more elongated conversations, I would feel much more satisfied, and I wouldn't be tempted to rush through more conversations.

Definitely agree that the system in Origins wasn't great. I think the new conversation system, if turned up a notch, would be a sound new convo system. I can't wait to see it in action.

[darrenr22]

CybAnt1 wrote...

As I've said before, it looks like they originally intended the female sergeant outside the Keep to be a full-service postal center, who would originally have lots of letters for you, of which these might be just one set.

I mean ... that is why you ask her "any letters for me?" ... but only once in the game does she answer ... yes.

I think they originally intended that to act as a big continuity bridge between the two games, with letters possibly arriving from another companions, possibly Anora if she was monarch, etc., etc.

But just never got around to implementing it. It just really seems that way to me.

That sounds like an awesome idea for a relatively straightforward mod, though, doesn't it? Now if only someone with the relevant expertise (which isn't me) and concern for the game's story would create such a mod.

Modifié par darrenr22, 20 juin 2010 - 10:16 .

[Tellervo]

darrenr22 wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

As I've said before, it looks like they originally intended the female sergeant outside the Keep to be a full-service postal center, who would originally have lots of letters for you, of which these might be just one set.

I mean ... that is why you ask her "any letters for me?" ... but only once in the game does she answer ... yes.

I think they originally intended that to act as a big continuity bridge between the two games, with letters possibly arriving from another companions, possibly Anora if she was monarch, etc., etc.

But just never got around to implementing it. It just really seems that way to me.

That sounds like an awesome idea for a relatively straightforward mod, though, doesn't it? Now if only someone with the relevant expertise (which isn't me) and concern for the games story would create such a mod.

I'd be happy to write letters from companions up for such a mod, though I don't know the modder would have me.  Especially from Zev and Lels--perhaps giving the Warden an update or two.  It would be a little lore changing, I suppose, to have extra letters at all.

I would have to include something vague and cryptic from Morrigan, though.  I'd be absolutely unable to resist.

Modifié par Tellervo, 20 juin 2010 - 10:08 .

[Yana Montana]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I reiterate - my life is ruined.

Also, Brockololly. It isn't good news. It's bad news. It means they didn't cut it out. It means they just intended LIs to be completely absent from Awakenings.

I swear, BioWare. I swear to some kind of God of Murdering... <_<

Exactly my thought...

[YohkoOhno]

You guys take the romances a bit too seriously. I'm just glad the next time I play I'll get letters once the patch is installed.

[Vim]

Tellervo wrote...

darrenr22 wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

As I've said before, it looks like they originally intended the female sergeant outside the Keep to be a full-service postal center, who would originally have lots of letters for you, of which these might be just one set.

I mean ... that is why you ask her "any letters for me?" ... but only once in the game does she answer ... yes.

I think they originally intended that to act as a big continuity bridge between the two games, with letters possibly arriving from another companions, possibly Anora if she was monarch, etc., etc.

But just never got around to implementing it. It just really seems that way to me.

That sounds like an awesome idea for a relatively straightforward mod, though, doesn't it? Now if only someone with the relevant expertise (which isn't me) and concern for the games story would create such a mod.

I'd be happy to write letters from companions up for such a mod, though I don't know the modder would have me.  Especially from Zev and Lels--perhaps giving the Warden an update or two.  It would be a little lore changing, I suppose, to have extra letters at all.

I would have to include something vague and cryptic from Morrigan, though.  I'd be absolutely unable to resist.

But a letter would be out of character for Morrigan. She isn't the letter writing sort. A letter would be an admission of weakness.   Instead she'd nurse the pain she feels in her heart to make herself stronger, just as Flemeth has taught her. The only way I'd see her contacting  the Warden is if Flemeth or some other force stronger than herself has taken the Warden's child away from her for some nefarious purpose.   But even then she wouldn't write, she'd come personally to enlist the Warden's help because that's the kind of gal she is.  And you can't do that sort of plot justice in a single letter or even a DLC , that sort of epic quest is more appropriate for Dragon Age 2.

Now I could possibly see a teaser letter from someone who believes they may have sighted Morrigan, but without knowing where Bioware intends to take that particular plot in the sequel, it would be too easy to write something that ends up clashing with Dragon Age 2.

[Tellervo]

YohkoOhno wrote...

You guys take the romances a bit too seriously. I'm just glad the next time I play I'll get letters once the patch is installed.

They are made of pixels, have no real emotions, etc.  That doesn't mean I'm not going to make every effort to get the maximum amount of fun possible out of this game.