Ignoring an entire console because of crappy launch titles is kinda stupid. It's like me entirely ignoring the 360 because I had a terrible time with Perfect Dark Zero.
Are consoles holding back game development?
Débuté par
Faz432
, mars 26 2010 02:44
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#27
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 05:24
Surango
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Celrath wrote...
Red Steel?
I think that was it.
#28
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 05:27
Surango
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Cascadus wrote...
Ignoring an entire console because of crappy launch titles is kinda stupid. It's like me entirely ignoring the 360 because I had a terrible time with Perfect Dark Zero.
Wasn't really the point for me. If it had been any other game the same results would have occured. Slinging around a weightless object when you're used to a short, heavy blade that could go through someone's skull unsharpened...well.. that kind of puts a damper on things.
Modifié par Surango, 27 mars 2010 - 05:28 .
#29
Guest_Celrath_*
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 05:27
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Red steel was the the only game on the Wii that looked remotely interesting to me when it came out.
#30
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 05:54
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Celrath wrote...
Red steel was the the only game on the Wii that looked remotely interesting to me when it came out.
My friend loved it. It got him wanting to try my sword form. It was so sad.. he'd do these haioowaa stances you see in the really bad movies and charged, bokken raised. Me? I stood there. Waited til he got right up on me to strike and put my hand up neck level. He ran into it and fell over unable to breathe for almost a minute. I was too busy laughing at him to do anything. (Don't worry, I knew where to hit to just make him fall over.) He never bothered going into the heavier weapons.
#31
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 06:09
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Cascadus wrote...
Well, don't worry, because the Wii has the lowest software attach rate out of all the three main consoles. And just because you see a lot of shovelware, it doesn't mean it's selling well. It just means said shovelware is cheap enough to load onto the Wii's library en masse.
It's still depressing to see Carnival Games overtake MadWorld or No More Heroes though.
The attach rate is indeed bad and the wii is remarkable for having the terrible games outweigh the mediocre ones which outweigh the good ones.
However the scary part of this is how the market could change to bring more and more investment to back up what are not "games" for us but rather "Im bored and lazy and I might want to try swinging something" not-really-worth-ur-money titles. You can read a number of "expert" opinions that think that the Nintendo model is what the "new" gaming industry is about and whatnot. It would spell disaster for what we love.
#32
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 07:40
orpheus333
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Beetgreen wrote...
If it bothers PC gamers that consoles are holding back development of games, perhaps PC gamers should prove to the industry that they're worth investing in. You could start by actually buying games.
This irritates me. The vast majority of PC Gamers actually do buy their games.
Personally i don;t think the gulf is so large. While high end PCs are incredibly powerful they are normally under used, not because of developing for a console but just because it is a tiny market share. Whether developed for PC or console a game can still innovate, i see no reason for the platform to dictate innovation in the games industry. The market in general is a bigger factor. With games costing so much to create these days we will always see tested formats being copied.
The PC however is at the leading edge of indie development and a lot of great stuff has come out of that scene and just like 20 years ago if an indie developer can make it with their ideas we will see more interesting stuff on the market. Just look at the story behind Portal
Modifié par andyr1986, 27 mars 2010 - 07:49 .
#33
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 09:11
eriaa
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No, I don't believe they are. Console games
are still getting better...there's a lot of untapped potential there.
And sad as I am to say this, but PC gaming
will slowly die off. I myself recently got a
PS3, and I have to say I love
it. I am renting games only, which cuts a lot
of cost from me buying so many games, like I had
to on my PC (I have never pirated a game).
Which
brings up another thing. Recently Kotaku did their 2010 cenus...and 79%
of the responders said they have pirated games...79%! That's insane! No
wonder developers are moving away from the PC more and more, or just
giving us poorly done ports. You have very few developers these days who really strive to make great PC games...Bioware is one that still loves the PC.
You really have to think about the market as well. If a developer wants numbers, they will go to the consoles...as I would guess there are far more console gamers than PC gamers atm. So they need to cater to that crowd and make sure they are done right for that crowd.
Things like OnLive will maybe PC gaming become more popular...but I think their pricing plan will be there downfall. It's really PCs that holds PC gaming back...as not everyone can afford a crazy gaming rig, or having to upgrade every few years...as where you can buy a ps3 and have it last you 10 years (xbox 360s according to kotakus cenus have a 65% failure rate!).
IDK, I 'm a PC gamer at heart, but I'm realistic in knowing that consoles are and will take over.
are still getting better...there's a lot of untapped potential there.
And sad as I am to say this, but PC gaming
will slowly die off. I myself recently got a
PS3, and I have to say I love
it. I am renting games only, which cuts a lot
of cost from me buying so many games, like I had
to on my PC (I have never pirated a game).
Which
brings up another thing. Recently Kotaku did their 2010 cenus...and 79%
of the responders said they have pirated games...79%! That's insane! No
wonder developers are moving away from the PC more and more, or just
giving us poorly done ports. You have very few developers these days who really strive to make great PC games...Bioware is one that still loves the PC.
You really have to think about the market as well. If a developer wants numbers, they will go to the consoles...as I would guess there are far more console gamers than PC gamers atm. So they need to cater to that crowd and make sure they are done right for that crowd.
Things like OnLive will maybe PC gaming become more popular...but I think their pricing plan will be there downfall. It's really PCs that holds PC gaming back...as not everyone can afford a crazy gaming rig, or having to upgrade every few years...as where you can buy a ps3 and have it last you 10 years (xbox 360s according to kotakus cenus have a 65% failure rate!).
IDK, I 'm a PC gamer at heart, but I'm realistic in knowing that consoles are and will take over.
#34
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 09:13
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andyr1986 wrote...
Beetgreen wrote...
If it bothers PC gamers that consoles are holding back development of games, perhaps PC gamers should prove to the industry that they're worth investing in. You could start by actually buying games.
This irritates me. The vast majority of PC Gamers actually do buy their games.
A recent poll on kotaku shows that 79% of its readers pirate PC games. I'm mostly a PC gamer, and I have never pirated a game...but it goes on way too much. 79% is not the vast majority.
Modifié par eriaa, 27 mars 2010 - 09:15 .
#35
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 09:27
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It is worth saying that the Kotaku survey had only 23,000 votes. That's not a big enough sample for an empirical conclusion, asides the fact that the question was "have you ever" rather than "do you often". Regardless it is an interesting indicator. I have no sympathy for pirates but I have to say that the DRM that everyone is trying to get in seems to be pushing people to pirate. If I bought something I want to be able to have a soft copy as well as backup.
#36
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 09:31
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No More Heroes > > > > > > > > > > Red Steel
*Most launch games suck, if I judged a PS3 just because of Resistance looking interesting I'd hate the PS3.
*Most launch games suck, if I judged a PS3 just because of Resistance looking interesting I'd hate the PS3.
Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 27 mars 2010 - 09:33 .
#37
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 11:50
Cascadus
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No More Heroes 2 > No More Heroes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pile of dogshit >>>>>>> Red Steel.
Modifié par Cascadus, 27 mars 2010 - 11:58 .
#38
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 11:51
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No More Heroes 2=Best game of the year so far except for Mass Effect 2.
#39
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 11:55
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Blah blah blah...
pc gaming will die...they been saying that for 20 years...
Lets take ME3 as a perfect example. It will and is being developed for the current gen of 360, meaning it could be soooo much better on a pc, but no, it will be dumbed down again on the pc becasue of the 360's limited architecture....
because consoles are released in generations, and not continually updated, games will always suffer because of it.
Ads for the idiot blaming priacy on killing the pc market, you actually know how easy it is to copy a console game...you would be suprised, its easier than a pc title fyi
And on that subject, how many poeple I wonder never ever buy console games, they just 'rent' them instead....so much lost money to the publisher don't you think? So, is 'renting' actually any better....the publisher is still not getting their money are they?
pc gaming will die...they been saying that for 20 years...
Lets take ME3 as a perfect example. It will and is being developed for the current gen of 360, meaning it could be soooo much better on a pc, but no, it will be dumbed down again on the pc becasue of the 360's limited architecture....
because consoles are released in generations, and not continually updated, games will always suffer because of it.
Ads for the idiot blaming priacy on killing the pc market, you actually know how easy it is to copy a console game...you would be suprised, its easier than a pc title fyi
And on that subject, how many poeple I wonder never ever buy console games, they just 'rent' them instead....so much lost money to the publisher don't you think? So, is 'renting' actually any better....the publisher is still not getting their money are they?
#41
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:00
Feraele
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Faz432 wrote...
This is something that has been on my mind for a while, are consoles holding back game development?
Logically you have to think YES, as the Xbox 360 and PS3 are now 5 year old hardware and with no plans for MS or Sony to release new consoles they're aging. So when developers are planning a new game like DA2 or ME3 they must have to think "we would love to do this or that BUT the hardware restrictions of the Xbox or PS3..." Whereas with PC development they can plan to develop a game to the full extents of todays hardware.
So are they?
Hmmm from the general rumours I read...its more like, more games are being developped with the console in mind. Not sure if that is true however. It "could be" that because of certification..at Microsoft and Sony...things are held up or delayed, other than that..I don't know.
#42
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:04
Onyx Jaguar
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Maviarab wrote...
Blah blah blah...
pc gaming will die...they been saying that for 20 years...
Lets take ME3 as a perfect example. It will and is being developed for the current gen of 360, meaning it could be soooo much better on a pc, but no, it will be dumbed down again on the pc becasue of the 360's limited architecture....
because consoles are released in generations, and not continually updated, games will always suffer because of it.
Not really. I have played both versions of Morrowind and outside of Graphical integrity only the mods suffer (and the controls to a certain extent), same with Oblivion, Fallout 3 and in the reverse case the GTA games. So while it may be "dumbed down" graphically, other faults are in the porting process, there isn't that wide of a gap. Besides in five years the graphic difference will not be that much. Morrowind looks like crap today regardless of what you play it on.
#43
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:10
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Don't we get the superior versions of all those games anyways? Modding, higher graphical fidelity and more hotkey options after all.Maviarab wrote...
Blah blah blah...
pc gaming will die...they been saying that for 20 years...
Lets take ME3 as a perfect example. It will and is being developed for the current gen of 360, meaning it could be soooo much better on a pc, but no, it will be dumbed down again on the pc becasue of the 360's limited architecture....
because consoles are released in generations, and not continually updated, games will always suffer because of it.
#44
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:14
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I would agree Fera primarily because:
*get your flames ready people*
The 'modern' gamer does not really have the time to spend playing games, the modern gamer does not generally have the attention span for huge cpomplex games....the modern gamer is becoming lazy....
need facts? Look at the PS3's latest and greatest offering....8 hours to complete? I mean come on seriously...its an insult to anyone...
Historically, pc games have been sit down and concentrate games (this is now changing) and console games have been ailed more towards the 'younger' gaming market and those who want a 'pick up and play' game, something to do for an hour before you go out.
Most console games are geared and playing with friends, or for kids. People can argue this fact all day long, but out of the last 500 games to come out for consoles (all of them)...how many of them would you actually classify as 'adult' games? Not so many, I already know, Im just getting you to think about it.
And unfortunatly for the pc market, that section of the gameing market (for consoles) is very large, so its natural publishers will want to crack that market. are they actually better games? well thats another debatable point.
I find it amazingly funny (there is a current thread at the moment here in the forums) that people on consoles are getting all excited at the possibility of modding their save games lmao....really? Just get a decent PC and be done with it....what you want from your game cannot be achieved on a console, yet people still think its a better platform, yet moan when the PC users get a better deal from a game....hey, it was your chice to spend (almost) as much on a small box as what a good pc would have cost you.
Also, we hve to lok at lifestyles, again people in general are getting lazier, they do not want the (supposed) hassle that comes witha pc, they want to buy a disc, put in their little shiny box and play the game. The PC market will never die, it just continually changes and evolves. In my opinion, the only time the PC market will die (for games) is when people like myself (and of a similar age) can no longer understand how to play a damn game because we are too addled in the head....but thats not going to happ[en for another 40 years or so...
Also, lets take a look at the future of gaming for a moment shall we? Full immersive VR....you really think...honestly, thata console will give you that? No it won't (and anyone who thinks it will is kidding themselves), a PC once again will be the forefront of that technology (we already have it if you can afford it btw)....
*get your flames ready people*
The 'modern' gamer does not really have the time to spend playing games, the modern gamer does not generally have the attention span for huge cpomplex games....the modern gamer is becoming lazy....
need facts? Look at the PS3's latest and greatest offering....8 hours to complete? I mean come on seriously...its an insult to anyone...
Historically, pc games have been sit down and concentrate games (this is now changing) and console games have been ailed more towards the 'younger' gaming market and those who want a 'pick up and play' game, something to do for an hour before you go out.
Most console games are geared and playing with friends, or for kids. People can argue this fact all day long, but out of the last 500 games to come out for consoles (all of them)...how many of them would you actually classify as 'adult' games? Not so many, I already know, Im just getting you to think about it.
And unfortunatly for the pc market, that section of the gameing market (for consoles) is very large, so its natural publishers will want to crack that market. are they actually better games? well thats another debatable point.
I find it amazingly funny (there is a current thread at the moment here in the forums) that people on consoles are getting all excited at the possibility of modding their save games lmao....really? Just get a decent PC and be done with it....what you want from your game cannot be achieved on a console, yet people still think its a better platform, yet moan when the PC users get a better deal from a game....hey, it was your chice to spend (almost) as much on a small box as what a good pc would have cost you.
Also, we hve to lok at lifestyles, again people in general are getting lazier, they do not want the (supposed) hassle that comes witha pc, they want to buy a disc, put in their little shiny box and play the game. The PC market will never die, it just continually changes and evolves. In my opinion, the only time the PC market will die (for games) is when people like myself (and of a similar age) can no longer understand how to play a damn game because we are too addled in the head....but thats not going to happ[en for another 40 years or so...
Also, lets take a look at the future of gaming for a moment shall we? Full immersive VR....you really think...honestly, thata console will give you that? No it won't (and anyone who thinks it will is kidding themselves), a PC once again will be the forefront of that technology (we already have it if you can afford it btw)....
#45
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:20
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@Cascadus...
Agreed. Which is why as the op stated, consoles 'are' limiting game development. It comes in fits and starts. When the new generation of consoles appear, there will be a whole host of interesting and exciting games come out. Consoles once again will be on a par with PC's, but another 12 months down the line, when that console cannot and will not be upgraded/updated, games will once again suffer and developers are stuck with that consoles architecture, while the PC has moved far ahead of it.
Its an age old argument, and I have no wish to start a platform war (thought hats difficult given the fanatacism some people have), but it is quite simply, if you have any common sense and intelligence, fact.
Yes I am a PC fanboy, but its akin to cars. I love my BMW, think its wonderful, but I'm not so blind as to think its better than something else. Yes it is in certain areas, and it isnt in other areas. Makes you wonder why we can't all get along and justa ccept that consoles and PC's are aimed for different markets, and are better and worse than each other in different areas.
Agreed. Which is why as the op stated, consoles 'are' limiting game development. It comes in fits and starts. When the new generation of consoles appear, there will be a whole host of interesting and exciting games come out. Consoles once again will be on a par with PC's, but another 12 months down the line, when that console cannot and will not be upgraded/updated, games will once again suffer and developers are stuck with that consoles architecture, while the PC has moved far ahead of it.
Its an age old argument, and I have no wish to start a platform war (thought hats difficult given the fanatacism some people have), but it is quite simply, if you have any common sense and intelligence, fact.
Yes I am a PC fanboy, but its akin to cars. I love my BMW, think its wonderful, but I'm not so blind as to think its better than something else. Yes it is in certain areas, and it isnt in other areas. Makes you wonder why we can't all get along and justa ccept that consoles and PC's are aimed for different markets, and are better and worse than each other in different areas.
#46
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:31
Onyx Jaguar
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Maviarab wrote...
I would agree Fera primarily because:
*get your flames ready people*
Most console games are geared and playing with friends, or for kids. People can argue this fact all day long, but out of the last 500 games to come out for consoles (all of them)...how many of them would you actually classify as 'adult' games? Not so many, I already know, Im just getting you to think about it.
.
Since 2008, single player emphasis:
Devil May Cry 4
Lost Odyssey
The Club
Condemned 2: Bloodshot
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 (debatable, heavy multiplayer portion)
Dark Sector
Viking
Grand Theft Auto 4
Ninja Gaiden 2
Too Human (debatable, co-op portion)
Army of Two (debatable, heavy co-op portion)
Tales of Vesperia
Mercenaries 2
Armored Core: For Answer
Brothers in Arms Hells Highway (debatable, do not know if its a PC port or not)
Silent Hill Homecoming
Guilty Gear 2: Overture
Dead Space
Golden Axe
Saints Row 2
Fable 2
Far Cry 2 (debatable, developed primarily on PC)
Legendary (pure crap but whatever)
Gears of War 2 (debatable, heavy online portion)
Rise of the Argonauts (debatable, do not know if its a PC port or not)
The Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery
Tomb Raider: Underworld
Destory All Humans
Prince of Persia
Onechanbara
Star Ocean
50 Cent Blood on the Sand
Resident Evil 5
Wheelman
Chronicles of Riddick
Ninja Blade
Velvet Assassin
Red Faction: Guerilla
Overlord 2
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood
I could go on and that is just the Xbox 360
I hate overgeneralization when it comes to Video Games.
The list would be smaller if I were to prove that specific point for you it seems. Now if I would divide the obvious PC to console ports, the Multiplayer games and the kids games there would be a clearer picture. But i haven't even gotten to PS3, but thankfully the Wii's demographic suits your argument better.
Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 27 mars 2010 - 12:33 .
#47
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 12:35
Loerwyn
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Mass Effect was on the 360. We, on the PC, got an alright port that didn't look too bad. Mass Effect 2 was on the 360 and PC, and was (graphically) much better. I don't think, really, that consoles hold the PC back too much. As long as developers, if they develop for consoles and PCs, give PC gamers incentives to buy that version (better graphics, mods etc) then I think PC gaming is going to be just fine.
#48
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 01:21
Faz432
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Just edited my op to include the question -
Do you think current consoles are limiting the potential of games being developed?
I think this more accurately describes my concern. Before you answer that question though ask yourself -
If the Xbox 720 or PS4 came out next month would the games being brought out after that be more advanced than they are now?
------------
Bit off topic the piracy points, but I do love the delusion that console gamers DO NOT PIRATE! or that renting or borrowing a game is not essentially the same thing.
Do you think current consoles are limiting the potential of games being developed?
I think this more accurately describes my concern. Before you answer that question though ask yourself -
If the Xbox 720 or PS4 came out next month would the games being brought out after that be more advanced than they are now?
------------
Bit off topic the piracy points, but I do love the delusion that console gamers DO NOT PIRATE! or that renting or borrowing a game is not essentially the same thing.
Modifié par Faz432, 27 mars 2010 - 01:24 .
#49
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 01:26
Feraele
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I think..being an "older gamer"...could call me old school btw..1995 first time online playing games. 
I have watched the transition of games, and the new generations of gamers. Its all come down to what..is easiest, fastest..and less challenging in the long run.
Hence why Wow is popular and remains popular with that set. I played it for about 3 months, lost interest and never went back.
Good game to cut your gaming teeth on..if you're a newbie, but it doesn't hold the interest of someone like me..who likes the challenging side of games, and also the story lines.
Sandbox games..such as what SWG was "supposed" to be..until LucasArts and Sony had a brainfart and changed all that to the detriment of what that game was all about...or even Ryzom, are less popular because, they don't lead you around by the nose.
They don't pat you on the head and give you a cookie for walking five steps to the next quest giver.
Everquest was a challenging game, back in the day. Yes bugs...lots of bugs sometimes. But there was more camaraderie there, more community there than I have seen in sometime..since.
It seems the sandbox games become labelled as "niche" and relatively very few people play them in comparison to say a game like Wow...Eve Online is yet another game that could be considered "niche" and "sandbox".
And of course the standards of today..at least from what I read from gaming forums..it seems like most gamers today think that Blizzard created the genre, because of course...EQ and UO were created before they were born (I'm kidding hehehe)
I guess my fear is..that developpers will continue to remove challenge from their games in order to mimic the Juggernaut Wow..but they need to realize that..Wow was a blip, an anomaly, and in order to compete, with them today..you probably have to spend ten times the amount they did..to make a game that is competitive and "steals" some of Wow's thunder.
Now don't get me wrong...personally I don't like Blizzard or Wow ..etc. Not my cup of tea..tried it, didn't like it.
Its just how I see things as they stand today.
I have watched the transition of games, and the new generations of gamers. Its all come down to what..is easiest, fastest..and less challenging in the long run.
Hence why Wow is popular and remains popular with that set. I played it for about 3 months, lost interest and never went back.
Good game to cut your gaming teeth on..if you're a newbie, but it doesn't hold the interest of someone like me..who likes the challenging side of games, and also the story lines.
Sandbox games..such as what SWG was "supposed" to be..until LucasArts and Sony had a brainfart and changed all that to the detriment of what that game was all about...or even Ryzom, are less popular because, they don't lead you around by the nose.
They don't pat you on the head and give you a cookie for walking five steps to the next quest giver.
Everquest was a challenging game, back in the day. Yes bugs...lots of bugs sometimes. But there was more camaraderie there, more community there than I have seen in sometime..since.
It seems the sandbox games become labelled as "niche" and relatively very few people play them in comparison to say a game like Wow...Eve Online is yet another game that could be considered "niche" and "sandbox".
And of course the standards of today..at least from what I read from gaming forums..it seems like most gamers today think that Blizzard created the genre, because of course...EQ and UO were created before they were born
(I'm kidding hehehe)I guess my fear is..that developpers will continue to remove challenge from their games in order to mimic the Juggernaut Wow..but they need to realize that..Wow was a blip, an anomaly, and in order to compete, with them today..you probably have to spend ten times the amount they did..to make a game that is competitive and "steals" some of Wow's thunder.
Now don't get me wrong...personally I don't like Blizzard or Wow ..etc. Not my cup of tea..tried it, didn't like it.
Its just how I see things as they stand today.
Modifié par Feraele, 27 mars 2010 - 01:30 .
#50
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 27 mars 2010 - 01:32
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Do you think current consoles are limiting the potential of games being developed?
Much better worded...and yes I do.
I think this more accurately describes my concern.
yes it does lol...well done
If the Xbox 720 or PS4 came out next month would the games being brought out after that be more advanced than they are now?
Yes I believe they would (I stated thate arlier), but again, within 12 months PC hardware and capabilities would leave the console behind, and then we are back to your first question again lol.
