98 réponses à ce sujet

[gauntz]

Vibrating blades could be a sci-fi explanation for melee weapons in Mass Effect; I understand that "vibrosword" is a common more realistic solution to swords than lightsabers in sci-fi fiction. Anyways, what I'd most like to see is biotic body attacks.

[Solomen]

I'm all for vanguards having some form of melee besides the punch to the face, even gun kata with mell equipped weapon handles would be good.

[Solomen]

melee equipped...

[DPSSOC]

How would people feel about a bayonette style gun fixture?  Turn the punch (on that note what was wrong with the rifle butt?) into a possible 3 hit combo; rifle butt, bayonette jab, shot (B, B, RT on console unsure of PC controls); that while not an instant kill can drive the enemy in question back a few feet allowing the player to return to shooting normally.  Now unfortunately I couldn't see this working with the HP or SMG so it might be too specific to be implemented unless someone can come up with a way to make it work for the smaller guns.

[Solomen]

DPSSOC wrote...

How would people feel about a bayonette style gun fixture?  Turn the punch (on that note what was wrong with the rifle butt?) into a possible 3 hit combo; rifle butt, bayonette jab, shot (B, B, RT on console unsure of PC controls); that while not an instant kill can drive the enemy in question back a few feet allowing the player to return to shooting normally.  Now unfortunately I couldn't see this working with the HP or SMG so it might be too specific to be implemented unless someone can come up with a way to make it work for the smaller guns.

Equillibrium had melee equipped pistol butts for lethal pistol whipping.

[Nightwriter]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Ok, you kinda missed my point. Having simple CQC that compliments the shooting is OK. Turning Shepard a cyberninjapirate is not. Punching and kicking yes, dropping them, with limitations, yes, removing their weapon, maybe with heavy limitations. Grapling means you ****ed up and you are fighting for your life, so no. And using enemies as shields hell no, there are way too many stupid things with this one (weapon penetration etc.).

The MGS series is based on steath, so it's realistic that it has heavy CQC (from Snake Eater on). Don't get me wrong I love MGS series. ME series on the other hand is not based on stealth and it should not be. So implementing a CQC system like MGS just would not work.

Oh. I didn't get the impression that's what you meant at all. I see what you're saying now, yeah, I only meant combat that compliments the shooting. By grappling I meant anything that involves you grabbing an enemy, for whatever reason.

But what exactly do you mean by weapon penetration? I would think it would be perfectly plausible to grab the enemy and utilize their shields to soak up incoming fire.

[Kangasniemi]

Nightwriter wrote...

Kangasniemi wrote...

Ok, you kinda missed my point. Having simple CQC that compliments the shooting is OK. Turning Shepard a cyberninjapirate is not. Punching and kicking yes, dropping them, with limitations, yes, removing their weapon, maybe with heavy limitations. Grapling means you ****ed up and you are fighting for your life, so no. And using enemies as shields hell no, there are way too many stupid things with this one (weapon penetration etc.).

The MGS series is based on steath, so it's realistic that it has heavy CQC (from Snake Eater on). Don't get me wrong I love MGS series. ME series on the other hand is not based on stealth and it should not be. So implementing a CQC system like MGS just would not work.

Oh. I didn't get the impression that's what you meant at all. I see what you're saying now, yeah, I only meant combat that compliments the shooting. By grappling I meant anything that involves you grabbing an enemy, for whatever reason.

But what exactly do you mean by weapon penetration? I would think it would be perfectly plausible to grab the enemy and utilize their shields to soak up incoming fire.

By weapon penetration i mean that if guns will shread shields, armor and health in seconds, they would easily go trough the body you are holding and hit you with more than enough force to injure/kill you. And seeing how little the merc companies care about their infantry men, they would just shoot through him to get you. Not the mention the Collectors or the geth.

As for fighting while holding a hostage, that's not plausible. Maybe if you were holding a civilian who is scared ****less then maybe, but a live soldier/merc would fight back hard. So you would have to use all your concentration holding the hostage in line. And using an unconcious body as cover would mean you must carry dead weight in front of you and then you couldn't aim nor shoot.

Those are the main reasons that body cover thing is not plausible.

[All-a-Mort]

Isn't the idea of grabbing the enemy to use as a shield straying even closer to GoW2 style gameplay? Granted, maybe they could make it that biotics could then use the bodyshield whilst charging or throw it at someone, but otherwise...bit too Gears2 for me.

Can't really get the point of melee weapons. Most enemies in ME universe have at least some form of solid armour, say an upgraded equivalent of mediaeval plate armour. Now, plate armour of course rendered slashing weapons useless, so pointy stabbing weapons and weapons delivering blunt force (axes, hammers etc) were used. So short of a lightsaber/vibroblade (and Bioware would get crucified if they went down that route for being so similar to Kotor), then blunt force weapons are only use. So what's the need, when you can punch with solid powered armour or maybe use the stock of your weapon? I wait with some interest to see how the Kasumi backstab thing works, but would really consider doing it against say harbinger on insanity...yeah can see that working.

[Solomen]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Kangasniemi wrote...

Ok, you kinda missed my point. Having simple CQC that compliments the shooting is OK. Turning Shepard a cyberninjapirate is not. Punching and kicking yes, dropping them, with limitations, yes, removing their weapon, maybe with heavy limitations. Grapling means you ****ed up and you are fighting for your life, so no. And using enemies as shields hell no, there are way too many stupid things with this one (weapon penetration etc.).

The MGS series is based on steath, so it's realistic that it has heavy CQC (from Snake Eater on). Don't get me wrong I love MGS series. ME series on the other hand is not based on stealth and it should not be. So implementing a CQC system like MGS just would not work.

Oh. I didn't get the impression that's what you meant at all. I see what you're saying now, yeah, I only meant combat that compliments the shooting. By grappling I meant anything that involves you grabbing an enemy, for whatever reason.

But what exactly do you mean by weapon penetration? I would think it would be perfectly plausible to grab the enemy and utilize their shields to soak up incoming fire.

By weapon penetration i mean that if guns will shread shields, armor and health in seconds, they would easily go trough the body you are holding and hit you with more than enough force to injure/kill you. And seeing how little the merc companies care about their infantry men, they would just shoot through him to get you. Not the mention the Collectors or the geth.

As for fighting while holding a hostage, that's not plausible. Maybe if you were holding a civilian who is scared ****less then maybe, but a live soldier/merc would fight back hard. So you would have to use all your concentration holding the hostage in line. And using an unconcious body as cover would mean you must carry dead weight in front of you and then you couldn't aim nor shoot.

Those are the main reasons that body cover thing is not plausible.

I'd rather use the body as a projectile for smashing through cover

[Kangasniemi]

Solomen wrote...

I'd rather use the body as a projectile for smashing through cover

As would I. Throwing things as a biotic (small containers, bodies) would make a million times more sense than melee weapons. BTW, npcs can throw things at you so it's already in the game...

[Landline]

Tell you what, grab a hold of a melee weapon, join the military, use it in actual combat and if you survive more then five seconds and kill an enemy then ME can maybe have melee weapons.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 26 mars 2010 - 09:54 .

[Keltoris]

Landline wrote...

Tell you what, grab a hold of a melee weapon, join the military, use it in actual combat and if you survive more then five seconds and kill an enemy then ME can maybe have melee weapons.

I approve of this concept.

[Keltoris]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Modifié par Keltoris, 26 mars 2010 - 09:55 .

[Kangasniemi]

Keltoris wrote...

Landline wrote...

Tell you what, grab a hold of a melee weapon, join the military, use it in actual combat and if you survive more then five seconds and kill an enemy then ME can maybe have melee weapons.

I approve of this concept.

I second that concept.

[Solomen]

Kangasniemi wrote...

Solomen wrote...

I'd rather use the body as a projectile for smashing through cover

As would I. Throwing things as a biotic (small containers, bodies) would make a million times more sense than melee weapons. BTW, npcs can throw things at you so it's already in the game...

As a vanguard I can see the use of being able to use a close range series of attacks to get enemies off my back after a charge. 

[Aedan_Cousland]

Just to play devil's advocate, I will say that the melee weapons idea isn't quite as bad as Dual Wielding.

[Lord Coake]

Shep is able to beat Geth to death with just her right fist.  She doesn't need a melee weapon.

[Solomen]

Lord Coake wrote...

Shep is able to beat Geth to death with just her right fist.  She doesn't need a melee weapon.

Geth Hunters and Geth Prime are a pain in the butt in melee.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

hmmm melee weapons, be nice if there was some more melee options. Elbow-face is old and is not as useful if you ask me. A few more CQC moves or options would be nice for when the enemy gets too close.

[Lord Coake]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

hmmm melee weapons, be nice if there was some more melee options. Elbow-face is old and is not as useful if you ask me. A few more CQC moves or options would be nice for when the enemy gets too close.

The Claymore counts as a "melee weapon."

[Wild Still]

I could just see a wall full of melee weapons hanging from the "Vanguard Section" of every single mob with a shotgun, or pistol, or rifle....

Modifié par Wild Still, 26 mars 2010 - 10:47 .

[Solomen]

Wild Still wrote...

I could just see a wall full of melee weapons hanging from the "Vanguard Section" of every single mob with a shotgun, or pistol, or rifle....

Manriki style pistol... a heavy pistol with a charged chain and mace

[smudboy]

Kangasniemi wrote...
Ok, you kinda missed my point. Having simple CQC that compliments the shooting is OK. Turning Shepard a cyberninjapirate is not. Punching and kicking yes, dropping them, with limitations, yes, removing their weapon, maybe with heavy limitations. Grapling means you ****ed up and you are fighting for your life, so no. And using enemies as shields hell no, there are way too many stupid things with this one (weapon penetration etc.).

The MGS series is based on steath, so it's realistic that it has heavy CQC (from Snake Eater on). Don't get me wrong I love MGS series. ME series on the other hand is not based on stealth and it should not be. So implementing a CQC system like MGS just would not work.

How does grapling mean you ****ed up?  The idea is basic CQC aside from "elbowing".  I'd imagine a biotic could pull off some lethal punches/kicks.

What's wrong with using enemies as shields in a cover-based shooter?  This seems a rather simple, tactical concept which complements an existing playstyle (Vanguard.)  Instead of charging in and trying to shotgun everything to death, you can either use an emeny as a shield for a offensive/defensive tactics.  (Imagine instead of biotically charging you biotically charge and grab.  I never quite understood how hurling your entire body at someone would be an effective attack, but nevermind that.)

Look at the Soldier that's depleted his/her heat sinks.  All he's got is his elbow.  A Soldier who's an expert at fighting can only use his elbow.  Oh right, he's got a knockdown skill, the Concussive Shot.  A knockdown move.  How that even works is beyond me.

In ME you kill anything that movies.  Although I will admit giving Shepard a tranq gun would possibly make him more Paragon, I don't think that's a possibility.  (Unless BW wants to retcon the game again...)

Gears of War 2 has their Meat Shield tactic (picking up dead bodies.)

In a cutscene, Shepard twists a Sentinel's neck, as does Thane.  (As opposed to Thane being invisible/Jack being a biotic punching god, and Samara flying.)  If enemies are reacting to certain attacks/hits on their body, surely they can react differently to a grab/submission hold/be used for cover.

Why?  Because ME2 is all:1. find cover, 2. pop out and shoot/biotic, or as a Vanguard 1. Charge, 2. Shotgun.  For the entire game.  It needs variation, and not more heavy weapons.  Controlling the battlefield (pulling an enemy to you, going to them) makes a battle dynamic and more strategic, if you're forcing a change in position and enemy tactics.  The use of grenades are gone, so all ME2 really has is Shockwave and Singularity.  And that's if their armor is down.

Modifié par smudboy, 26 mars 2010 - 11:25 .

[The Spamming Troll part 2]

id love seeing melee weapons. i was completely against melee weapons in ME1 becasue it took 58 bullets to kill someone, so a sword would take a week to take an enemy down. but bioware really went a differnt direction in terms of gameplay with ME2. id like to see melee weapons now, **** it, why not? i never use the melee button in ME2 but if i had a bat, thatd be aweomse. i guess i kindof gave up on what ME should or shouldnt be, and id just like to see more of anything really. who cares?