15 réponses à ce sujet

[sonsonthebia07]

I was told that the negotiation system in this game isn't based on just how many para/gade points you have, but by the number of either paragon or renegade choices you make in the game. I initially thought that it was based on the points.

So, as all my playthroughs are generally me choosing entirely paragon or renegade options, I have not once had an issue with recruiting Morinth, Unfortunately, this poses a problem for me in my latest playthrough. I have chosen most of the renegade options once again as well as having done every loyalty but Zaeed's and Morinth's (I plan on doing Zaeed's after the Omega 4 because I am trying to have only Jack and Morinth survive). BUT...this time I  chose quite a few of the Neutral options because they are even..."douchier"...than the renegade options...namely, turning Tali's father's evidence in, among others. I also recruited Legion instead of handing it to Cerberus, which led to a huge Paragon point increase.

What I am trying to say is that, on a previous playthrough, I had much less renegade points because I only did 2 loyalties, yet I could recruit Morinth through dialogue choices. On this playthrough, because I chose maybe 3 neutral big options, I cannot recruit her. I even used the Death Mask, and my Renegade score is maxed.

Can someone help me with this? I really do not want to play this guy over again, done it 3 times now trying to get this setup to work. I'm pretty sure that there are no more options left for me in the game to score some renegade, nor am I sure that it would make any difference with the system the way it is.

[sonsonthebia07]

Bump before leaving. I really need to know if I have to restart this run yet again.

[trucoolbrees]

I think you need to restart. The system isn't entirely based on points, this post by Kin Stolz explains http://social.biowar...index/1197668/3





You may have to scroll down a bit.

[davidshooter]

The paragon renegade system in this game was implemented very poorly. If your points remained in a new game plus it would be excusable but they don't. As it plays now you are penalized later in the game for choosing responses you think are appropriate to each individual circumstance as opposed to just mindlessly choosing all renegade or paragon options. So ultimately Jack's loyalty, or in your case Morinth's recruitment, (and several other possibilities) hinge on extreme responses in completely unrelated conversations with completely unrelated characters, many of whom are only strangers met in passing.

In most conversations the neutral response is actually the most accurate reflection of real human interaction - and some of them are even the best lines, but if you choose this path with any regularity you can really screw up the ending of the game (depending on what you want to happen).

Recruiting Morinth should depend on what choices you made when speaking to her. Jack's loyalty should hinge on your interactions with her, and the extent to which your interactions with others effect her, etc etc. The system as it stands is really, really, stupid and I can't believe they chose to go with this over all the possibilities that could have been implemented.

Modifié par davidshooter, 26 mars 2010 - 06:21 .

[trucoolbrees]

Funny thing is, I get the option to recruit Morinth all the time as a paragon, .....never get it as a renegade.

[ObserverStatus]

Same here, I could never recruit Morinth as Renegade.

[davidshooter]

I never get sound regardless of paragon or renegade.

[ObserverStatus]

davidshooter wrote...

The paragon renegade system in this game was implemented very poorly. If your points remained in a new game plus it would be excusable but they don't. As it plays now you are penalized later in the game for choosing responses you think are appropriate to each individual circumstance as opposed to just mindlessly choosing all renegade or paragon options. So ultimately Jack's loyalty, or in your case Morinth's recruitment, (and several other possibilities) hinge on extreme responses in completely unrelated conversations with completely unrelated characters, many of whom are only strangers met in passing.

In most conversations the neutral response is actually the most accurate reflection of real human interaction - and some of them are even the best lines, but if you choose this path with any regularity you can really screw up the ending of the game (depending on what you want to happen).

Recruiting Morinth should depend on what choices you made when speaking to her. Jack's loyalty should hinge on your interactions with her, and the extent to which your interactions with others effect her, etc etc. The system as it stands is really, really, stupid and I can't believe they chose to go with this over all the possibilities that could have been implemented.

I concur, ME3 needs a persuade system based on points of a single skill, like in Fallout 3 or KOTOR

[CarpeOmnios]

I've only ever had the option to recruit Morinth once...other times my score wasn't high enough.

[greghorvath]

gibbed's save editor lets you overcome any shortcomings of the current paragon/renegade system

[spacehamsterZH]

trucoolbrees wrote...

I think you need to restart. The system isn't entirely based on points, this post by Kin Stolz explains http://social.biowar...index/1197668/3

Oooh, so that's why I didn't have any problems in my first playthrough... see, I had an imported character and I kept wondering why everyone was always complaining about this stuff.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to agree with the people who say this isn't a good idea. It sounds good in theory - you get a bonus for having finished ME1, and when you think about it, it really makes more sense that your personality would change based on past actions, i.e. if you're always a jerk to everyone, it eventually gets easier. But what it ends up doing is killing a big chunk of the "roleplay" because you can't really pick whichever dialogue option makes the most sense to you anymore unless you want to suffer the consequences. I hope they go back to having this scale with an upgradeable skill in ME3.

[SantosCapela]

The system is good both in theory and in practice but incomplete. It should be complemented by a single skill able to compensate more neutral paths. I find it acceptable that morinth recruitment should be difficult unless you are mostly renegade but in case of renegons there should be the option of spending points in a skill in order to compensate. This choice would come at the expense of points for other skills.



I do think your options during game should be taken into account, at least more than in me1 where your options almost had no effect and you had to constantly spend points in both charm and intimidate to open up dialogue. As such I'm against those two skills but I favor a single skill for those who opt for a renegon or paragade path.

[davidshooter]

I just choose whatever options I want now and then make sure I do Samara's loyalty mission as early as possible and then button mash my paragon score to full with the glitch at the end (360). I'm not really that big of an RPG fan (but I like the vibe and the combat of this game - apart from the idiotic auto sniper aim that can't be turned off ) so maybe this is an RPG thing that I just don't get but;

How does a system forcing an almost total paragon or renegade playthru in order to allow key decisions to be made a good idea in a game that sells itself on the depth of player choice and individual outcomes?

Apart from people trying to do specific endgame deaths, who isn't trying to keep their whole crew loyal and/or trying to keep all the recruitment options open?

Isn't trying to keep the whole crew loyal part of the design of the game? Isn't that supposed to be part of what every player is doing? Yet to accomplish this the player is given only one choice - Paragon or Renegade - and then it all resets in a new game+. I honestly don't follow the thinking here.

[greghorvath]

what thinking?

[sonsonthebia07]

davidshooter wrote...

I just choose whatever options I want now and then make sure I do Samara's loyalty mission as early as possible and then button mash my paragon score to full with the glitch at the end (360). I'm not really that big of an RPG fan (but I like the vibe and the combat of this game - apart from the idiotic auto sniper aim that can't be turned off ) so maybe this is an RPG thing that I just don't get but;
How does a system forcing an almost total paragon or renegade playthru in order to allow key decisions to be made a good idea in a game that sells itself on the depth of player choice and individual outcomes?
Apart from people trying to do specific endgame deaths, who isn't trying to keep their whole crew loyal and/or trying to keep all the recruitment options open?
Isn't trying to keep the whole crew loyal part of the design of the game? Isn't that supposed to be part of what every player is doing? Yet to accomplish this the player is given only one choice - Paragon or Renegade - and then it all resets in a new game+. I honestly don't follow the thinking here.

Aye, I have beaten the game several times already though with my whole crew loyal and surviving - that's why I'm going for a "worst possible scenario" situation.

Anyways, thanks for the responses. I decided to start over again. This is the first Shep I used that wasn't imported from ME1 which might be the reason behind everything. Whenever I see red, I'm going to choose it.

Modifié par sonsonthebia07, 29 mars 2010 - 03:33 .

[LoversPoison]

my god, how are you people ever having a problem with this. i choose whatever i pleased and still had things high enough for whatever i wanted.