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[Kerilus]

The only reason I chose Harrowmont in my Dwarven noble playthrough is because I could have a chance to succeed that old man and become an even greater king than Bhelen could be. Then I can finally bring back honour and glory to the house Aeducan and myself.

[mousestalker]

My first dwarf was a commoner so I always lean towards Bhelen. He really is very good to Rica and even to her gawdawful mother. Harrowmount is much more of a jerk if you aren't noble or immediately useful to him.



My dwarf commoner rogue would never break her sister's heart or ruin their chances like that.

[Costin_Razvan]

As a Dwarf noble I was pissed off at him for using Endrin's death as a means to get King.

[Gilsa]

*grumble*

Fine, you're going to make me have an evil dwarf playthrough, aren't ya? Aren't ya? =p

Seriously, I'm pretty blase about Harrowmont versus Bhelen outside of dwarf origin stories because it's like what Branka said -- kings come and go. Who is to say the next king after either of them won't undo the work they've done or do even better? Sure, Harrowmont croaks pretty soon after which opens the door for someone possibly better than either Harrowmont or Bhelen to rebuild the empire. If Bioware doesn't want to juggle two dwarven kings in their next expansion or sequel, I can see them deciding that Harrowmont's replacement is also Bhelen's replacement and just conveniently have Bhelen assassinated. Maybe not. Look how easily Anora can be replaced after ruling for only five years. Having said that, I tend to pick Bhelen because I love Rica. Even though I don't see her outside of dwarven origins, I like to pretend she's finally happy somewhere with her little babe because her future is now a lot brighter.

On an amusing note, if you click on the nobles after you crown Bhelen (might need to be a commoner to hear this, not sure), you hear two noble women talking about vying for Bhelen's attention:

"Varia! Look what I've got! An invitation to King Bhelen's coronation ball! Do you have a dress? I have a wonderful rose-colored surface silk, trimmed with lace. Do you think it will catch the king's eye?"

"Doesn't King Bhelen already have a son?"

"The mother's just a casteless noble hunter. He still needs a queen! We must get ready!"

[Sarah1281]

As a Dwarf noble I was pissed off at him for using Endrin's death as a means to get King.

I could buy Endrin not wanting Bhelen to take over. If you're a DN then the note Gorim passed on pretty much confirms it: "I never believed in your guilt. I allowed you to be exiled because I feared an inquiry into Trian’s murder would taint our house with scandal in the eyes of the deshyrs and cost our family the throne.But I have saved nothing by this sacrifice: I sent my only child into an uncertain exile." The note non-DN can find if they look in Harrowmont's room is less blatant but still mentions that Endrin is no longer interested in preserving the throne for Bhelen.



Part of it was pobably being PO'd about killing Trian and getting the DN exiled and possibly killed, but if you keep in mind that before Bhelen made sure to stay beneath everyone's notice and after he's the sole heir and proved himself much more talented the anyone suspected then that means Endrin probably didn't have any idea what kind of King Bhelen would be. Since it was unlikely to have ever happened unless Bhelen took the initiative why would he pay attention to that? Afterwards, the lack of respect for tradition would have certainly put him off.



Did he really want Harrowmont to succeed him? Who knows. What we do know is that there doesn't appear to be another candidate from the Aeducans since Trian's dead, the DN's dead or exiled, and Bhelen was considered unsuitable.

[Costin_Razvan]

A letter that was written by Harrowmont mind you. Who is to say he didn't alter it?

[Sarah1281]

Harrowmont wrote the letter non-DN get asking him to go look for the DN himself?

[Krasnoludek666555]

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A true Dwarf would NEVER betray or kill his brothers, unless they would be like Bhelen is. A true Dwarf would never kill HIS OWN FATHER. A true dwarf would never kill his opponent if he surrendered, unless it is a revenge

The previous King, Endrin, did just that. He tricked his brother into a proving with a murderer armed with a poisoned weapon and inherited the throne that way.


->Where did you find this information? I knew that Endrin's brother died during a proving, but i thougth that it was an accident, or maybe a murder but certainly not ordered by Endrin himself.

Modifié par Krasnoludek666555, 27 mars 2010 - 11:47 .

[Draguling]

Harrowmont died in my game, how would he be alive in DA2?

[Krasnoludek666555]

That is the point, that despite fact that epilogue in DA says that he died, he is still alive in Aweaking, so why couldn't he be in DA2?

[Ponce de Leon]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Harrowmont wrote the letter non-DN get asking him to go look for the DN himself?

Not that I would know. I think they are talking about the letter in Harrowmont's room, written by Endrin, where he asks to not let Bhelen get the throne.

As for a side note : My dwarf noble trusted Gorim. Why would he give a forged letter and lie to DN PC? Well, he would not. Bhelen is not wanted from anyone either Aeducan or Harrowmont family

[Draguling]

Krasnoludek666555 wrote...

That is the point, that despite fact that epilogue in DA says that he died, he is still alive in Aweaking, so why couldn't he be in DA2?

I'm playing awakening as a DN and I have yet to hear that he is alive. Where would I hear that?

[Krasnoludek666555]

Well, there are two brothers in Warden's Keep. Architect and pirotechnican (he makes bombs from lyrium) and they say that they have been send to help the Wardens by King Harrowmont. So he must have been alive at least when he sent them there. He may be dead at the time of action, but i think that he is still alive, at least at the moment.

[mousestalker]

Krasnoludek666555 wrote...

Well, there are two brothers in Warden's Keep. Architect and pirotechnican (he makes bombs from lyrium) and they say that they have been send to help the Wardens by King Harrowmont. So he must have been alive at least when he sent them there. He may be dead at the time of action, but i think that he is still alive, at least at the moment.

I'm pretty sure they said they were sent by King Bhelen in mine. 

[Draguling]

Krasnoludek666555 wrote...

Well, there are two brothers in Warden's Keep. Architect and pirotechnican (he makes bombs from lyrium) and they say that they have been send to help the Wardens by King Harrowmont. So he must have been alive at least when he sent them there. He may be dead at the time of action, but i think that he is still alive, at least at the moment.

Nope, they clearly say king Bhalen.

[Krasnoludek666555]

Well, it depends on your choices in DA:O. I have chosen Harrowmont, so in MY game they say "King Harrowmont"

[Draguling]

Well as long as Bhalen rule for me in DA:O 2 I don't care if Harrownt rules for those that choose him.

[Costin_Razvan]

Where did you find this information? I knew that Endrin's brother died during a proving, but i thougth that it was an accident, or maybe a murder but certainly not ordered by Endrin himse

Bhelen points it out.

My dwarf noble trusted Gorim. Why would he give a forged letter and lie to DN PC? Well, he would not.

You are assuming Gorim knows it is a forged letter. Gorim points out he was given the letter BY Harrowmont.

[Krasnoludek666555]

And I hope for

a]chance to save Harrowmont in DA 2
b]chance to become his succesor
c]chance to kill this **** Bhelen and take the throne for yourself

Bhelen points it out.

->Oh yes, becouse Bhelen is SOOOO reliable source of information XD

Modifié par Krasnoludek666555, 27 mars 2010 - 12:49 .

[Hostetler]

In the end - my decision came down to - what would be the best overall for the dwarves? Taking into account thier current situation, on the brink of extermination, the stifling choking adherence to a traditions that will ultimately cause thier extinction, it was obvious that Bhelan was the best choice, anyone who thinks Politics is a bloodless arena is disillusioned. while playing my DNM I actually laughed at the end of the origins - that was extremely well played by bhelan - I happily slaughtered Trian for the arrogant, self centered,egotistical S.O.B. that he is.

[CalJones]

Even my DN (yup I finally managed to complete a dwarf playthrough) made Bhelen king. Harrowmont - nice guy and all that, but useless as a king and disastrous for Orzammar. The way I rationalised it was that my DN was actually impressed by Bhelen's ability to play the game, even if he hated him for it. He realised he would be the stronger leader.

[Venatio]

Better a progressive tyrant than an overly conservative leader. Besides, King Endrin wasnt exactly a Paragon of Purity or what have you. Rumour has it that he orchestrated his brothers death in a Proving Match, allowing him to take the throne. The best way to give yourself reason to support Bhelen, as a non dwarf Origin, is to go to Harrowmounts advisor to offer help but Bring Zev along. When he hears how scared of Bhelen Harrowmount and his House is He'll laugh and insist we find a better King and I normally choose to go with his advice.

[sylvanaerie]

Its rather telling too that first encounter in Orzammar. During the fight that breaks out, all of Harrowmont's men run and hide. Bhelen's are willing to fight for what they believe. Plus if you make Harrowmont ruler you talk to the dwarves in Redcliffe before the final fight and they are saying that one of the noble houses still haven't committed to the war against the Blight, manuevering to try a take over after everyone else is dead. He can't lead worth beans.



Plus he's just a slimy as Bhelen, he engages in bribery (and who knows what else) just he is sneakier about it than Bhelen. And if you spare Branka she goes after elves and humans and forces them to endure golemizing. Just as with everything else he may not endorse it but he just looks the other way while she does it. At least Bhelen I am thinking its for his own selfish reasons but still he won't allow her to make her own personal golem army with stolen souls.



So...Slimeball who's at least honest hes a douche or slimeball who tries to hide it behind polite words...I guess I will go with the evil I know.



Frankly I always wish there was an option C (like choosing the PC DN or putting the crown on the Head of the Assembly dude).



He's a weak king who is worse for the dwarves than Bhelen (and for the record I do like doing his provings quest better than Bhelen's digging around in the damn Deep Roads looking for the dwarven equivalent of Indiana Jones). I just felt bad when Bhelen killed Harrowmont upon taking the throne. I thought that was a little excessive but considering the dog eat dog world of dwarven politics (after many more playthroughs) I can even understand that.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Harrowmont is just as corrupt as Bhelen. He is okay with kidnapping elves and humans to make golems. He has no sympathy for the lower classes. Harrowmont is also weak and will do whatever the counsel wants him to do, even if it is only in their best interest and not for the rest of Orzammar. Harrowmont is also for more isolation from the surface, what a horrible idea for trade if they are constantly beseiged by darkspawn.
Just my opinion on the matter.
Anyway, surface dwarves > underground dwarves.

Actually Branka is the one who does that not Harrowmont. He just doesn't give her enough of the volunteers she wants that leads to that. While Bhelen tries to force her to only create Golems for him.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Bhelen is selfish and greedy but he influences change for the better though he also has a bit of tyranny going on. Harrowmont seems like a nice guy but he will try to keep things as they are and end up being assassinated.